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James DeGraaf
(jdegraaf) - MLife

Locale: Bay Area
Lite Trail Titanium Solid Fule Cook Kit on 11/20/2012 09:08:28 MST Print View

Hi folks,
My wife and I have put together a little video demonstrating the Lite Trail Solid Fuel Cook Kit.
Lite Trail Ti Solid Fuel Cook Kit
Let's hope the link works. Comments or constructive criticism are welcome!
Thanks,
James

Scott Pickard
(gon2srf)

Locale: Southern California
Re: Lite Trail Titanium Solid Fule Cook Kit on 11/20/2012 09:39:08 MST Print View

Great video and cookset. For a more real field experience using some type of cozy would be nice in place of the oven mitts. Great job.

Edited by gon2srf on 11/20/2012 09:40:20 MST.

James DeGraaf
(jdegraaf) - MLife

Locale: Bay Area
Another Tip on 11/20/2012 12:36:43 MST Print View

Jhaura from Lite Trail took a look at my video and suggested something as well; use the ground protector on the bottom of the pot to help keep the stuff sack cleaner also.

Oven mitts aren't really SUL are they?! Ha ha!
Thanks,
James

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
ESBIT max efficiency stove on 06/07/2013 16:01:27 MDT Print View

I like to cook with ESBIT because it is lightweight fuel.

** The more efficient the stove the less fuel you have to carry. That's a no-brainer.

> Caldera Cones appear to be the most efficient ESBIT stoves thus far for concentrating heat on the pot bottom as well as reducing heat loss from wind.

> Brian's Backpacking Blog shows how to make a better Gram Cracker fuel tablet holder that holds the liquid residue created when burning ESBIT tabs so it can all burn and extend burn time to about 15 minutes.

> Aluminum pots heat more evenly and rapidly than Ti pots and pots that are wider than they are tall are the most heat efficient.

With these efficiencies one gets the best out of ESBIT - faster boiling time/less heat loss, and longer burn times.

My personal ESBIT solo setup is CC Sidewinder Ti stove, 3 cup aluminum pot and homemade Brian Green design Gram Cracker tab holder.

I post all this boring info because, as my first posts on BPL years ago attest, I have been tinkering with ESBIT for years to get more efficiency. Now I have FINALLY reached "ESBIT Nirvana" - except for the gunk it leaves on pot bottoms, that is. :o)

P.S. Trail Designs includes both a Ti ground sheet (for burning wood) and a much smaller light aluminum sheet for under their Gram Cracker fuel tab holder. Now with the Brian Green improved Gram Cracker tab holder that saves the liquid residue I don't need the ground sheet but still carry the small aluminum sheet "just in case".

Stove Weight -> 1.5 oz. (includes Sidewnder stove,Tyvek stove storage sleeve, modded tab holder, aluminum base sheet)

3 Cup Aluminum Pot & Lid Weight -> 3.9 oz.

Stuff Sack, Plastic Bowl & Cup Weight -> 1.8 oz. (cut-down GLAD 'fridge bowl)

Total ESBIT Cookset Weight -> 7.2 oz.

For 5 to 8 day trips it saves me fuel and I carry less than I would with alcohol, alky stove and the Cone. I like to actually cook, as opposed to merely boiling water, hence the 3 cup pot.

Edited by Danepacker on 06/07/2013 16:24:37 MDT.

Jon Fong
(jonfong) - F - M

Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR
Re: ESBIT max efficiency stove on 06/07/2013 18:04:10 MDT Print View

OK, I have a question for you. What is the efficiency that you are getting out of your system? I have been working on a design and using the 14 gram tablet, I can bring 4 cups of 70 F water up to 195F-200 F. My analysis says that this is 65% efficient (better than an alcohol stove). HOWEVER, I have not been able to get it to boil. Have you been able to boil 2 cups of 70 F using half an Esbit tablet? That would be a 72% efficiency. I am currently using a titanium pot but may switch over to aluminum to see if it makes a difference. Best regards - Jon

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
CC Sidewinder efficiency on 06/09/2013 14:42:23 MDT Print View

Jon,

I can always boil 2 + cups of water in my 3 cup anodized aluminum pot. I always begin with a full ESBIT tablet and usually manage to save about 1/2 of it so, yes, I can boil with 1/2 tab in the Sidewinder with my Brian Green modded tablet holder.

Jon Fong
(jonfong) - F - M

Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR
Re: CC Sidewinder efficiency on 06/09/2013 16:29:04 MDT Print View

So, you're saying that after the first boil that you can boil another 2 cups with the remaining Esbit. Taht is a +72% efficiency. Is that using the TD cone witht he Antigravity 3 cup pot? Best regards - Jon

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
TD's 3 cup pot on 06/11/2013 00:45:19 MDT Print View

I have TD's "Open Country" anodized aluminum 3 cup pot.

As mentioned in my post above at this point I feel I have about the most efficient ESBIT cook system available.

The small size of the Sidewinder cone needed to hold the 3 cup pot may be part of the reason so much heat is retained. All I can say is that this setup is d@mn good compared to any other I've seen, including the one by the OP, which I have already tried a few years ago.

P.S. I think it is important to thoroughly clean the pot bottom EVERY time afer cooking with ESBIT so there is always good heat transfer for the next use. A crusty pot bottom would act as an insulator. Besides, at my age I'm "crusty" enough without having a crusty pot.

Edited by Danepacker on 06/11/2013 13:44:04 MDT.

KEN LARSON
(KENLARSON) - MLife

Locale: Western Michigan
Epicurean Ti ESBIT Stove on 06/13/2013 09:32:20 MDT Print View

Have you tried the Fat Cat, Epicurean Ti ESBIT Stove in your described system above?

The low and high burning mode that is built into the Epicurean stove give the user more flexibility. If you look at attached pic it also has a tray to collect the liquid Esbit material when the tablet burns to increase burn time as does Brian Green's modified ESBIT stove.

Epicurean Ti stove

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: Epicurean Ti ESBIT Stove on 06/13/2013 09:51:12 MDT Print View

Since Jon is on this thread I'd like to throw a question out there about the epicurean. How is it for fuel efficiency in the high mode compared to the gram cracker? Does it improve fuel economy or is it simply marketed as an esbit burner with a simmer option?

Sorry for the thread drift. I'll do push ups while waiting for the answer.

Jon Fong
(jonfong) - F - M

Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR
Re: Re: Epicurean Ti ESBIT Stove on 06/13/2013 10:03:22 MDT Print View

Ken & Ian, thanks for the shout out! The Epicurean Titanium Stove was really designed to be able to simmer and Dry Bake (and ease of use). In terms of efficiency in the high mode, I can get 4 cups of 70F water up to about 185 F. Not as good as what Eric is getting on his CC with the BGET. However, in the works is this little guy (stove alone - 2 grams).

epi ul


It is still in the test phase, but it looks like it can burn in three modes. High, Med-High and Simmer. At the request of another BPL’er, this will be integrated and tested with a windscreen designed specifically for the beer can group. I have been testing it with both 14 gram and 4 gram tablets. With a prototype type setup, I have been able to get 4 cups of 70 F water up to 205 F. I think with a little more tweaking, I’ll be there. I think that I am about a month or so away from have a BETA version. This is not being designed for the general market but you guys that want a UL type system. Me, I am doing just to see where it goes. Jon

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
Deleted on 06/14/2013 11:15:15 MDT Print View

Deleted

Edited by Danepacker on 06/14/2013 11:19:59 MDT.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
Baking, etc. on 06/14/2013 11:18:46 MDT Print View

Jon,

Thanks from one ESBIT tinkerer to another. At one time I had tried a cut down aluminum "chimney" (from a hair mousse can) and I see your regulated burner is round as well, giving it a slight chimney effect.

I like to bake with my MSR Dragonfly stove in winter. Now maybe I can bake with ESBIT in the summer too. I may attatch my aneroid thermometer pot lid handle to my small pot lid for that attempt to get an idea of correct baking temperature.

Keep on tinkering! That's how things improve.

Edited by Danepacker on 06/14/2013 11:23:09 MDT.

David Poston
(dgposton) - F

Locale: Texas / Colorado
Re: Re: CC Sidewinder efficiency on 06/19/2013 09:15:49 MDT Print View

Regarding efficiency, the best measure I've found is J energy transferred to the water / g of fuel consumed. I had my chemistry students build their own alky stoves this past semester and calculate the efficiency this way. It saves you all the guesswork of what was the initial temp? and so forth.

1. Weigh your stove before and after to find the mass of the fuel consumed in grams.
2. Record the initial temp in degrees Celsius and final temp once the fuel is consumed. (Note: You want your final temp to be less than boiling point, because otherwise energy is lost and can't be computed).
3. Measure the mass of the water used in the experiment.
4. Use the equation Q = m c T where c = sp. heat of water = 4.184 and m = mass of water in grams. Q = energy in Joules.
5. Divide Q by the mass of your fuel consumed and you get the efficency. Voila! Now you have a scientific way of comparing efficiencies.

The best alcohol stove the students achieved (sans windscreen), with no wind, was around 10,000 - 11,000 J/g fuel.

Esbit (haven't tested my Sidewinder / gram cracker yet) just burning on a piece of aluminum foil is around 12,000 J /g fuel.

Jon Fong
(jonfong) - F - M

Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR
Re: Re: Re: CC Sidewinder efficiency on 06/19/2013 10:31:57 MDT Print View

Well, if you are looking at efficiency, then you need to calculate the Energy Delivered/Energy Potential. From my spreadsheet, heating up 4 cups of 70F water to 205 F requires 296996.7 Joules. One 14 gram tablet of Esbit has a potential of 433462.4 Joules, so the efficiency would be 296996.7 Joules/433462.4 Joules or 68.52%. The numbers will vary a bit depending on where you found the energy density data (especially for Esbit). That being said, 68% efficiency is pretty darn good.

What does this practically mean? Well, it means that we are close to being able to boil 2 cups of water using two of the 4 grams Esbit tablets. I think that handling 4 gram tablets are a lot easier and cleaner than splitting a 14 gram tablet. Plus two 4 gram tablets gives you just a little bit more fuel than the bigger tablet.
In the real world, who boils 70 F? That being said, most people will either a) boil less than 2 cups of water or b) anything over the mug groaning (~185 F) is close enough.
I think that it is a fun exercise to figure out how to tweak out more efficiency from Esbit. Esbit stove/windscreen designs have been pretty stagnant and it is fun to see how far you can take it. My 2 Cents - Jon

Dan Yeruski
(zelph) - MLife

Locale: www.bplite.com
Stainless steel 3 cup on 07/13/2013 20:12:18 MDT Print View

I did 3 test today using the 4 gram esbits. Three tests and no boils. One of the tests was an "almost" I could hear the rumbling noise for about a min and then it stopped abruptly. I quickly took the lid off and the small bubbles were gone which means it was really close to a boil. I was not timing the burns and the almost boil took forever. Very little residue left in my round aluminum container. 9 grams of esbit will surely boil 2 cups. I'll burn some more tomorrow. I'll use 10 grams of esbit.

I used my 2 ounce stainless steel pot and Ti Caldera Cone. 70 degree start temp for the water, 80 degree outside air temp. Calm conditions. Two 4 gram tabs per burn test. Lots of mosquitoes.(Northern IL)

Edited by zelph on 07/13/2013 21:18:58 MDT.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Re: Re: CC Sidewinder efficiency on 07/13/2013 20:53:18 MDT Print View

"I think that handling 4 gram tablets are a lot easier and cleaner than splitting a 14 gram tablet. Plus two 4 gram tablets gives you just a little bit more fuel than the bigger tablet."

Jon, please clarify.

Surely you don't mean that two 4 gram tablets gives you more fuel than a 14 gram tablet.

Maybe you mean that two 4 gram tablets gives you more fuel than a split 14 gram tablet. But those aren't your words.

--B.G.--

Jon Fong
(jonfong) - F - M

Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: CC Sidewinder efficiency on 07/14/2013 00:08:33 MDT Print View

--B.G.--

Thank you for catching this. What I meant to say was:

To boil 2 cups of water, two 4 gram tablets are much easier to handle than splitting a 14 gram tablet in half (and dealing with crumbs and uneven breakage). Additionally, you end up with 8 grams verses half a big tablet (7 grams).

I myself seem to have reached a limit. I can bring 2 cups of 70 F water up to 205 F using two 4 gram tablets (8 grams total) or 4 cups of 70 F up to 200-205 F using one 14 gram tablet. I can't quite reach a boil. Jon

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: CC Sidewinder efficiency on 07/14/2013 00:16:53 MDT Print View

Sometimes I get tired of trying to split a 14-gram Esbit tablet to make the fuel right for a 16-ounce water boil. Instead, I just throw the whole tablet in there, boil the water, and then blow out the remaining fire. That leaves me with something to start with for the next boil. Besides, I never measure the temperature of my starting water. Nor do I know exactly what the boiling point is at my current elevation.

--B.G.--

Drew Jay
(drewjh) - F

Locale: Central Coast
-- on 07/14/2013 01:01:33 MDT Print View

Edit - need to test more to check my numbers...

Edited by drewjh on 07/14/2013 01:11:10 MDT.