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Down shifting in Enlightened Equip quilts?
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Duane Hall
(PKH) - M

Locale: Nova Scotia
Down shifting in quilts on 11/21/2012 01:49:10 MST Print View

There is a disappointing amount of down shift in my Sierra Sniveller (Jacks R Better) as well. What is irritating to me is the way manufacturers often tout this as a design feature. This might make some sense in a sleeping bag, but surely not in a quilt. A really cool, or should I say warm design feature in a quilt, would be down that stayed where it was put in the first place.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Down shifting in quilts on 11/21/2012 05:39:11 MST Print View

My home quilt has Karo baffles and they drive me nuts as the down keeps moving leaving baffles either full or half empty.

I tried moving the down and I ripped one of the baffles.

I had a WM Ultralite that suffered the same issues as Mary mentions.

Edited by stephenm on 11/21/2012 05:48:40 MST.

Raymond Estrella
(rayestrella) - MLife

Locale: Northern Minnesota
down shifting a "feature" on 11/21/2012 07:03:56 MST Print View

“There is a disappointing amount of down shift in my Sierra Sniveller (Jacks R Better) as well. What is irritating to me is the way manufacturers often tout this as a design feature.”

It is in a way. With a quilt made for “normal” 3-season hiking you may be using it on a wide range of temps. In warmer temps I tend to leave the quilt loose and spread wide. As it gets colder I pull the quilt in around my body. If it gets really cold, as in below the rated temp of the quilt, that is when I will shake the down to the center so there is more loft on top, and then actually close the top edge and pull the sides under me like a sleeping bag would fit. I don’t need the down that was on the sides now (there will still be down, just not as much).

Edited by rayestrella on 11/21/2012 07:05:47 MST.

Sergiy Sosnytskiy

Locale: Ukraine
decisions... decisions... on 11/21/2012 08:12:53 MST Print View

Oh my...
I spent so much time before deciding that I need a 20F wide. And I thought that all there was left to decide was Rev versus Rev X. But now it seems like I should also think about overstuffing... Maybe I need an overstuffed 30 instead of a normal 20? Or, keeping it on the safe side, an overstuffed 20?
Oh my... Why being a restless sleeper gives you no rest even during daytime?..

Mark Rash
(markrvp) - M

Locale: North Texas
Look at the squares on 11/21/2012 08:33:33 MST Print View

I just got a 20 degree quilt with 30% overstuff. I dont have enough time in it to add any information to this other than to say its fairly easy to see the down distribution by laying the quilt flat. The squares formed by the baffles puff up and you can judge if they look even or not. Granted, you couldn't do this in the rain.

I have also have a JRB Sierra Sniveller that the down shifts quite a bit.

USA Duane Hall
(hikerduane) - F

Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada
decisions... decisions... on 11/21/2012 08:56:02 MST Print View

I'm with you, too much to think about.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Look at the squares on 11/21/2012 09:10:09 MST Print View

"The squares formed by the baffles puff up and you can judge if they look even or not. Granted, you couldn't do this in the rain."

I don't see the goodness of Karo baffles - easier to just have normal tubes

The Karo baffles do look "cool" though

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
Re: decisions... decisions... on 11/21/2012 09:11:19 MST Print View

Horizontal baffles just make sense to me, as long as they're adequately stuffed and not overly wide (JRB*). Why the Karo baffle, are they a benefit to the maker (easier?) or to the end user out on the trail? There are simpler means for regulating temperature that don't require me having to move insulation throughout several baffles.

I could be convinced otherwise, but I haven't read any long term reports from karo step quilt users on how they compare to using traditional baffles.

michael levi
(M.L) - F

Locale: W-Never Eat Soggy (W)affles
Re on 11/21/2012 10:20:56 MST Print View

Tim should make a quilt with vertical baffles that are permanent. In a quilt there is no down under you, so might as well keep it that way.

Raymond Estrella
(rayestrella) - MLife

Locale: Northern Minnesota
why karo? on 11/21/2012 10:30:41 MST Print View

Eugene they are a much easier method for the maker as it allows the entire quilt to be filled at once, instead of filling each tube between horizontal baffles.

Diplomatic Mike

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
Re Down shift on 11/21/2012 11:02:04 MST Print View

A differential cut (outside shell bigger than internal shell) should help stop down migration in quilts, especially if you are a side sleeper. Your hips can push the outer and inner shell together otherwise.
The down shifts in my Nunatak Arc Specialist, but doesn't in my Katabatic Sawatch.

John Harper
(johnnyh88) - MLife

Locale: The SouthWest
Re: Karo on 11/21/2012 11:22:02 MST Print View

I'll go ahead and say I like the Karo baffles on my EE quilt. I have a 30 degree with overstuff. My knees/calves have always gotten really hot at night with other bags, but with the Karo baffles I can shift a lot of the down in that area to my feet and chest areas for extra warmth. Being able to do this has been GREAT and is the reason I chose EE. Even with this extreme shifting, down migration over night has not been much of a problem for me but I only have about 15 nights with it so far.

That said, my ideal quilt would have smaller karo or vertical baffles and would be more fitted (think Katabatic Gear style) but who makes that?

a b
Re: Re: Karo on 11/21/2012 21:56:01 MST Print View

Been using my Enlightnened Equipment Revelation 20 wide Karo quilt with standard 10% overfill.
Ain't had no problems with down shift but my temps have been upper thirties to forties.

I like the fact that some grey down feathers are in there.
The green 15d WR fabric is transluscent and and makes moving down easy though i simply use the following protocol.

Grab down quilt by left edge.
Shake for 10 heartbeats.
Grab down quilt by right edge.
Shake for 10 heartbeats.

Climb inside.
Sleep and dream crazy dreams whilst being warm and breathing cold air.
Girlfriends hate this.. us guys love this.

I think Karo baffles are no different than horizontal baffles i have used. (WM Antelope zero, WM Ultra 20, Montebell 30, SlumberJack Elite)
It is good practice to "shuffle" your down (or synthetic) gear before you attempt to sleep in it.
It has been packed in your backpack, squished the air out of, Why not introduce more insulating air into the material?
It is hella logical.

FWI. took me a long time to realize this myself. It is (and should be) standard operating procedure to "LOFT" your down OR synthetic before slumber. (I love the word "SLUMBER") Anyhow...

By the way, if your down or syth is toast, you can pull the inner and outer shells of your bag or quilt apart.(Just pick at them like picking dandylions) You will get a lot of convection in the dead airspaces you create, but it is better than the "flat ass" wet down clumped close to your body.

Ain't no expert but i have been in that situation and it helps.

Edited: to erase anything that makes me sound like a hick.

Edited by Ice-axe on 11/21/2012 21:58:00 MST.