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John Abela
(JohnAbela) - MLife

Locale: www.hikelighter.com
Suggestions for a female down waterproof jacket on 11/16/2012 10:49:08 MST Print View

Hey All,

My sister travels all over the country and is asking for a waterproof jacket that is really warm. She will be spending the winter in an area that is expected to be around 10(f) and lots of snow.

The only thing I know of is the EB MicroTherm, they happen to make a lady's version too which is nice.

A big key to this is the waterproof aspect.

I asked about going with a waterproof jacket and a down jacket and that did not go over all that well. She is looking for an all-in-one kind of jacket.

Anybody know of anything??

Gary Dunckel
(Zia-Grill-Guy) - MLife

Locale: Boulder
Suggestions for a female down waterproof jacket on 11/16/2012 11:01:52 MST Print View

John, how about the TNF McMurdo parka?

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Suggestions for a female down waterproof jacket on 11/16/2012 13:40:23 MST Print View

My gut feeling is that your sister does not understand what she is asking for, and that you won't find really good gear in that class.
Why so?

First of all, really competent gearmakers just don't mix rainwear with down. To be sure, you might find down gear with a DWR outer shell, but not waterPROOF. Any gear which claims to provide this will most likely be in the Walmart/consumer class.

Second, the idea seems a bit nonsensical to me. If you have to wear down gear, it is so cold that you won't be seeing liquid water. 10 F is not rain conditions - and neither is 20 F. (EPIC is good here.)

Third, putting a waterproof shell over down means that you are going to get lots of condensation inside the down layer. No two ways around it: the down will get wet even without rain. Then the water in the down will likely freeze.

My 2c
Cheers

michael levi
(M.L) - F

Locale: W-Never Eat Soggy (W)affles
x2 on 11/16/2012 14:11:38 MST Print View

x2 with Roger C... You are better off looking for the lightest weight down jacket, paired with a lightweight rain jacket.

Nathan Watts
(7sport) - MLife
Re: x2 on 11/16/2012 15:42:06 MST Print View

Rab, Patagonia, Eddie Bauer, and others make down filled waterproof jackets. You won't find them at Walmart though.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: x2 on 11/16/2012 16:23:01 MST Print View

> Rab, Patagonia, Eddie Bauer, and others make down filled waterproof jackets.
I have just been through the RAB line of down jackets. Plenty with DWR surface fabric, but I could not find any with a waterPROOF outer. Hum???

Patagonia and Eddie Bauer ... yeah, well, I rest my case.

Cheers

Dustin Short
(upalachango) - MLife
Re: Suggestions for a female down waterproof jacket on 11/16/2012 16:34:46 MST Print View

Obviously first attempt should be to reeducate your sister on inclement weather clothing....if you can't though there are a few options.

The Montbell Permafrost is made with windstopper which is basically first generation goretex so will be waterproof. It's not seam sealed of course but at 10F rain is unlikely. It's also super warm and more high altitude climbing oriented but females tend to run cold and love a plush/warm jacket.

Feathered Friends has their volant in pertex shield (as well as the frontpoint).

Granted those all are unisex/male designs and likely much warmer and pricier than she's looking for.

You may find a W Rab Microlight Alpine w/ Event on amazon or elsewhere that has about 5oz of 750fp down for $250ish.

She's still probably better off picking up a bitterroot from Golite for $150 and a Stoic Vaporshell from department of goods for $50. Two garments, twice the versatility and lets her layer up with existing clothing througout the year. I'm sure you could explain to her the benefits of mixing it up without her thinking it's one of your crazy SUL theories.

As for those saying a waterproof over down is absolute nuts...plenty of the big and well respected mountaineering companies offer clothing in this category. I agree that it's not the most ideal way for cold weather warm but there are plenty of cases that warrant it. If you think of the physics the current dogma also becomes a bit ludicrous in extremely cold weather anyway. How can a WPB membrane prevent moisture escape when water vapor is freezing before it even hits the membrane (ie in temps cold enough that the freezing point in the temp gradient is inside of the outer layer of jacket)? Or if you wear a VBL to prevent the aforementioned issues then having a waterproof layer protects the down from extreme/freak winter conditions such as waterfalls while climbing or breaking trail in the softest and deepest of powder with inadequate floatation. Go rewatch Dogma before piling on to the wishes of a member's sister.

Dustin Short
(upalachango) - MLife
Re: Re: Re: x2 on 11/16/2012 16:35:22 MST Print View

Roger, Rab Microlight Alpine with Event or the Batura Jacket

Edited by upalachango on 11/16/2012 16:36:39 MST.

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: Suggestions for a female down waterproof jacket on 11/16/2012 17:36:34 MST Print View

I'd like to think that down jackets transcend gender barriers.

Rick M
(rmjapan) - F

Locale: Tokyo, Japan
Re: Patagonia on 11/16/2012 18:15:27 MST Print View

"I have just been through the RAB line of down jackets. Plenty with DWR surface fabric, but I could not find any with a waterPROOF outer. Hum???

Patagonia and Eddie Bauer ... yeah, well, I rest my case."

I pretty much agree with Rodger. And just because a down/waterproof membrane jacket is/was made, doesn't make it a good idea.

With respect to Patagonia, the Gortex/down jackets they offer can best be described as "resort wear." In fact, if you use their recommended product search, "Mens-
hiking/trekking-jackets & vests" you won't find any down this season, just synthetics.

Rab seems to no longer offer a down/eVent product this season.

Nathan Watts
(7sport) - MLife
Feathered Friends on 11/17/2012 10:37:37 MST Print View

Depending on how much she's looking to spend, she should check out Feathered Friends as well. Pretty much top of the line stuff, and you pay for it. Sounds like exactly what she's looking for though

Gary Dunckel
(Zia-Grill-Guy) - MLife

Locale: Boulder
With what activities will she wear it? on 11/17/2012 10:53:18 MST Print View

John, one thing that I am thinking--if she plans to just wear this coat around town, and without much physical exertion, then we don't need to worry about her getting the down wet from inside. But if she plans to be physically active while wearing it, that's a different story. If the former is the case, then I still stand by the McMurdo parka from North Face. I wore mine walking around Reykjavik, Iceland in breezy, snowy 0 to +10*F conditions for a week over Christmas once, and it worked flawlessly. The waterproof Hyvent membrane cut much of the wind. It's not a Canada Goose parka, but it's pretty darned good.

Diplomatic Mike
(MikefaeDundee)

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
Crux on 11/17/2012 11:00:43 MST Print View

Crux have something that might fit the bill

John Abela
(JohnAbela) - MLife

Locale: www.hikelighter.com
Re: With what activities will she wear it? on 11/17/2012 11:03:01 MST Print View

Thanks for all the suggestions, comments, and theories so far guys.

To address the question of what will she be using it for...

She will put it on inside whatever house her company has her staying it, she will walk out to her truck, drive to work, and take it off. Reverse on the way home.

She is usually working at each city for around three months, so she ends up being at four or five different cities across the country each year.

She also loves going to national parks and going on very short hikes and taking a bazillion photos lolol.

I would say 90% of its use will be 'around town' type of use. She has been to places (just in the last year or two) such as Twin Falls ID, Cincinnati OH, Maple Grove MN, Vancouver WA, and a few places on the East Coast that I cannot remember.

We try to keep her away from the crazy cold areas during the winter time, but sometimes she has to go where she has to go in order to keep a job. She is facing temps in the low teens right now with lots of snow coming in the next few weeks.


Anyway, it was just my hope that there was something out there that I could pick up for her that would be warm, but also that she could use when she goes to places such as Seattle or here in the Redwood Forest, where it rains and rains and rains, and not have to worry about the jacket becoming worthless.

Thanks again all. I really do appreciate all the suggestions.