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Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: What a shame... on 11/16/2012 15:54:30 MST Print View

"If you ask me, it's the "solids" and "beef fat" that really make the recipe." +1

They'll be back. Just like Mother's Cookies. But it could take a while. Meanwhile, no fruit pies or Yodels.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: What a shame... on 11/16/2012 18:41:41 MST Print View

Sure, you list all the ingredients, but you don't tell us the AMOUNTS of each!

Cruel man, just cruel.....

Brad Fisher
(wufpackfn) - M

Locale: NC/TN/VA Mountains
Re: Re: What a shame... on 11/16/2012 18:52:07 MST Print View

Well if Starbucks would buy them they could triple the price at least and put them beside all the pastries. They would become the fad overnight. Can't you see it.... Eggnog Latte and a Twinkie on the way to the office......

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: No more Twinkies or Ding Dongs - It's Dean's fault on 11/16/2012 19:31:14 MST Print View

On Nov. 7, in the long running (and all over the place) Romney/Ryan 2012 thread, Dean Fellabaum wrote: "On the other hand and especially if healthcare gets funded with public money I'm all for taxing the hell out of things like sugary soda and Twinkies."

On Nov. 16, Hostess decided to close up shop.

Coincidence? I think not. We know the power the BPL forums wield.

No more Twinkies. And it's Dean's fault.

Thanks Dean.....

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: No more Twinkies or Ding Dongs on 11/16/2012 19:35:25 MST Print View

"Bad advice from union."

I think it's more complicated. Heard some stuff on radio but haven't found a good other source so I don't know, but

Hostess was taken over by a vulture capitalist (or Bain capitalist or Romney capitalist to be consistent with original thread)

So they borrowed a bunch of money. The vulture capitalist pocketed huge fees

Then they went bankrupt because they couldn't afford to pay the interest. Large employee concessions.

Then they emerged from bankruptcy with more borrowing of money and more vulture capitalist fees and more employee concessions. At some point they borrowed against employee pension funds.

Then they threatened to go bankrupt again demanding more employee concession. Some employees said yes but others said no. They went bankrupt. Senior management made large bonuses. Employee pension funds disappeared so the pensions have been assumed by the governemtn at some percent of original commitment.

This may be the empoyees/unions side of the story and the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No more Twinkies or Ding Dongs on 11/16/2012 19:37:16 MST Print View

What bums me is the media just wants to sensationalize the story. Talk about deep frying twinkies at fairs or the infinite shelf life...

The "liberal" media doesn't talk about the real story

Joe Clement
(skinewmexico) - MLife

Locale: Southwest
No more Twinkies or Ding Dongs on 11/16/2012 21:29:00 MST Print View

I'm giving Ben Crocker the win on this one. After yesterdays disaster her in Midland, I just can't get worked up about much.

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: No more Twinkies or Ding Dongs on 11/17/2012 00:09:18 MST Print View

Jerry you are so predictable. Do you even believe what you just posted? And you "heard it on the radio". I love it. Great laugh. Thanks.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: No more Twinkies or Ding Dongs on 11/17/2012 07:42:03 MST Print View

Well all the fun has been sucked out of this thread. Just like it was the cream filling. Geez guys. Does politics have to enter every discussion?


Jerry and Michael, are you ready for a cage match yet?

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: No more Twinkies or Ding Dongs on 11/17/2012 08:33:51 MST Print View

"Does politics have to enter every discussion?"

Well, that can be boring to other people, I see your point

Politics does enter every subject - if we're privatizing our wild lands, or not spending anough to maintain them and prevent people from ruining them we can't go backpacking. Food safety. Health....

cage match? I'm a pretty peaceful person so a cage match would be pretty boring. I would just run away.

Since you're making a joke about it, maybe the verbal cage match between Michael and I is giving you as much fun as talking about twinkies?

I have read that Hostess went bankrupt twice. And part of their problems have been large interest payments on loans. And management took multi $100,000s of thousands of bonuses. Maybe I'll see a report tying it all together. I think just saying it's the fault of the union is not fair.

Erik Basil
(EBasil) - M

Locale: Atzlan
This reminds me of a song... on 11/17/2012 10:30:03 MST Print View

Apologies to all you shrimpy little dudes that probably sing stuff like this everytime something happens...

Witch Witch! The Ding Dong's dead!
Which ding dong? The Ding Dong!
Witch witch! The Ding Dong is dead!
Wake up - sleepy head, rub your eyes, get out of bed.
Wake up, the Ding Dong is dead.
It's gone where the goblins go,
Below - below - below,Yo-ho!
Let's open up and sing and ring the bells out.
Witch Witch the merry-oh, sing it high, sing it low.
Let them know The Ding Dong is dead!

--circa 1936 or so?

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: This reminds me of a song... on 11/17/2012 10:31:37 MST Print View

Wizard of Oz reference?

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
Re: Re: No more Twinkies or Ding Dongs on 11/17/2012 10:59:59 MST Print View

Sorry Ken,
But in a Hostess discussion when the fact that the Unions screwed it up comes up, what do you expect? I didn't start anything here.

Jerry,

Hostess has been in financial trouble time and again. The latest owners took the risk and tried to turn it around. They are losing big $$ on the deal so don't try to pretend they are coming out smelling like roses. If they hadn't been willing to take the risk initially, the company would have been gone years ago. So I don't see how you can blame them for "buying" the company and taking out loan for operating expenses.

And I hate to break into your fantasy world, but good management takes lots of $$$. So yes, the managagers probably made decent money. Top guys, cost a lot, and is part of doing business.

And in this case it is the fault of the bakers union. The other unions compromised and said lower pay/benefits is better than no job. Bakers bet the owners were bluffing and lost. So yes, it is the Unions fault. Not saying they wouldn't have eventually failed anyway, but this cemented the end of Hostess.

John S.
(jshann) - F
Re: No more Twinkies or Ding Dongs on 11/17/2012 11:10:23 MST Print View

http://www.rei.com/share/rei-blog/2012/11/farewell-twinkie.html

Now what are we going to do to make it snow?

Since 1977—35 years!—it’s been our tradition at REI (one that started at the REI Berkeley store) to gather outside on a late-autumn day and roast Twinkies over open flames.

It’s an oddball sacrifice to the Unknown, stretching our imaginations to semi-believe that by bribing Snow Spirits with smoke from a few scorched sponge cakes, mountains everywhere would soon be pummeled with powder.


Skiers and snowboarders can dream, can’t they?


The ritual might work. In 2006, shortly after REI Denver hosted its "Burning of the Twinx," a mighty blizzard occurred that produced the sixth highest single-day snowfall in Colorado history. A year later, the Twinkie event preceded 59 days of mountain snow over a 62-day stretch.

Staffers here at REI headquarters near Seattle convened just this week to roast this year's crop of Twinkies. That indicates we have some believers here on campus, or that lots of us health-minded folks at REI just want a once-a-year excuse to scarf junk sweets.

Guilty sugar-high confession: I crept away from the mob, hid in a dark corner and mainlined 3 of them.

Now we hear news that the company that makes Twinkies is shutting down. This is tremendously sad news for the thousands of workers whose jobs are affected. We feel sincerely sorry for anyone affected and extend our sympathy.

This means farewell to fun-inclined indulgences such as Twinkies (a snack culture icon), Ho-Hos, Snowballs and Ding Dongs. (“Yo; Ding Dong, man. Ding Dong. Ding Dong. Yo.” —pivotal dialogue from the Weird Al Yankovic video Fat. See below.)

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: No more Twinkies or Ding Dongs on 11/17/2012 11:22:00 MST Print View

So, we can preceed any comment with "Sorry Ken"?

Even though we're not sorry?

Michael, you're putting all the blame on the union which is "fantasy". Management and labor should share any blame.

Reuters article http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/16/hostess-bankruptcy-idUSL1E8MG7Y620121116

"It filed for bankruptcy in September 2004 and emerged in 2009 with a host of employee concessions from various unions."

"Hostess blamed heavy debt and burdensome wage and pension obligations for its financial woes"

So, the heavy debt was from 2004 bankruptcy? You can bet that the vulture capitalists that did this made a bunch of money.

The employees already made wage and other concessions in 2009. They were unwilling to make more now. And there were more concessions than just 2009 and now.

"A source with knowledge of the situation who spoke on condition of anonymity said the company was well positioned when it emerged from bankruptcy in 2009, but the recession, a spike in commodity prices and consolidation of major competitors reshaped the landscape and forced more restructuring."

So, maybe it's not the union's or anyone's fault, but just that business wasn't viable any more. Maybe Twinkies have such a bad reputation because they're so unhealthful that you can't make a business around them.

On the other hand, Twinkies are well known. Very tasty in a disgusting sort of way.

Something tells me someone will continue to make and sell them.

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
Jer on 11/17/2012 12:43:21 MST Print View

I said concessions may have just prolonged the inevitable already. But no concessions meant the end now.

Just the facts everybody except you agrees on. If bakers union compromised like every other union at hostess, owners were willing to keep trying to make it work and hope for economic improvement. They didn't. Nail in coffin.

And no the venture capitalists are not making money by all reports.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Jer on 11/17/2012 14:09:29 MST Print View

"Just the facts everybody except you agrees on."

I believe R S and Scott had sympathy for labor. Most people just made humour about Twinkies - which is difficult not to : )


"If bakers union compromised like every other union at hostess, owners were willing to keep trying to make it work and hope for economic improvement"

If management hadn't have been so incompetent, they could have made it work


"And no the venture capitalists are not making money by all reports."

The vulture capitalists (Bain or Romney capitalists?) made their money in 1996 and 2009, when they loaded the company up with debt. At that point "the dominos" were all set up ready to fall. Then, when economy went bad and the management and labor got recalcitrant, the company failed.

Now, if we had a liberal media like you claim, there would be reports that told the complete picture rather than just blaming the union or making jokes about Twinkies.

Maybe management and the unions ate too many Twinkies and got too hyper which explains why they couldn't reach agreement.

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
Jerry on 11/17/2012 15:04:42 MST Print View

You have all the facts still wrong.

This is the liberal media being kind.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: No more Twinkies or Ding Dongs on 11/17/2012 15:26:08 MST Print View

It's snack food. Could we have a lighthearted discussion once and a while here on Chaff?

Michael and Jerry, another forum member made you this...

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=70403&skip_to_post=601486#601486

I like that you can peel the chocolate off before you eat the cake.


And Lemon Pie, 490 calories for a buck and 220 of them from fat. Awesome.

Brad Fisher
(wufpackfn) - M

Locale: NC/TN/VA Mountains
Re: Re: No more Twinkies or Ding Dongs on 11/17/2012 16:23:04 MST Print View

Jerry,

You forgot to find a way to blame Bush also. Surely just an oversight.

Let's sure hope a liquidator private equity firm doesn't step in and buy up the company at a discount. Picking some of profit making assets and hiring some people back. That would be terrible news to see the mean old vulture capitalist (as you call them) step in. Too bad they don't have the GM option where the government can step in and screw the investors and reward the union.

Geez, a Twinkie conversation spiraled out of control to this.