Just Say No To Wicking: Non-Traditional Base Layers Based on a Next-to-Skin Fishnet Model
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Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
aclima on 11/20/2012 10:34:42 MST Print View

I got ahold of the Canadian distributor of Aclima and inquired about their wool net pieces- she sent me a price of $117 for the zip neck top and $107 for the crew- I'm assuming that's w/o shipping as well.

Needless to say I'll stick w/ my Merino 1 for the time being :)

Bradley Thomas
(bthomas) - MLife

Locale: Mid Atlantic
Possible UK dealer on 11/20/2012 11:50:34 MST Print View

Excellent and enlightening article. Glad to hear that this technology has been around, and is established or accepted in Europe. A fact that lead me to do some quick googling, the end result of which was the discovery of: http://www.nordiclifeuk.co.uk/

This would appear to be an viable option for us English speaking Yanks. The Super Thermo Shirt LS including shipping to the US comes to £45.00 ($71.64)! I've never ordered from them personally, but my experience with UK retailers/distributors/outfitters in the past has always been excellent. Perhaps if I manage to raise some extra holiday spending money I'll put in for a shirt and pants set. The looks I would receive from my fellow backpackers would be priceless.

Yuri Pinsker
(ypinsker) - MLife
Nordic Life on 11/20/2012 15:05:15 MST Print View

Update: for anyone interested, these appear to be available at NordicLife.co.uk with reasonable shipping rates to the U.S.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Great article on 11/20/2012 16:19:34 MST Print View

"I can only imagine how long it would take to hitch into town wearing fishnet long underwear with shorts."

I think the bigger concern would be who stopped to pick me up. ;0)

Daryl Daryl
(lyrad1) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
Re: Re: wiggys on 11/21/2012 19:23:04 MST Print View

I've used my Wiggys top for a couple days now and have been quite pleased. I used them working in the yard (fishnet+polypro+windbreaker or raincoat) at 40 degrees F with and without heavy rain and also at the gym (with cotton T over them). In all situations I felt warmer than I would have without them.

My large size is made of nylon and weighs 9+ ounces. So the question that remains "is this the best bang for the 9 ounces". In other words would I have felt as warm with 9 ounces of something else (e.g. a second polypro pullover). Don't have the answer to this question.....yet.

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Fishnet Warmer? on 11/21/2012 19:43:54 MST Print View

When used as a base layer, there is no difference between fishnet and any of the other common knits relative to your core temperature. The only difference is in the perception of moisture on your skin surface.

Daryl Daryl
(lyrad1) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
Re: Fishnet Warmer? on 11/22/2012 08:33:30 MST Print View

Richard

"When used as a base layer, there is no difference between fishnet and any of the other common knits relative to your core temperature."

Not sure how to interpret this statment. Could you elaborate?

Does it refer to the insulating value of the garment? If so, does this assume that the base layer is covered by other clothing. Worn alone it is hard to believe that a garment with mostly holes in it (fishnet) would be as warm as a knitted garment of the same weight.

Thanks,

Daryl

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Re: Fishnet Warmer? on 11/22/2012 11:02:16 MST Print View

Daryl,

Yes, all five base layer knits tested had the same breathable layer over them (BDU). They were tested using a wide MET range in cool weather. Although the testers perceived differences in the way they felt, core temperature instrumentation showed 0 difference for the five common base layer knit types (1 by 1 rib, fleece, fishnet, interlock, and double layer rib using polypropylene).

Daryl Daryl
(lyrad1) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
Re: Re: Re: Fishnet Warmer? on 11/22/2012 13:29:55 MST Print View

Richard,

Thanks.

Very helpful.

Daryl

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Just Say No To Wicking: Non-Traditional Base Layers Based on a Next-to-Skin Fishnet Model on 11/22/2012 13:56:01 MST Print View

So Richard Nisley. Would you say use what you have/like as they all work pretty much the same?

Edited by kthompson on 11/22/2012 13:56:42 MST.

a b
(Ice-axe)
Re: Re: Re: Fishnet Warmer? on 11/22/2012 23:43:17 MST Print View

Good Evening Richard,

What activity levels were the particpants in your study subject to?

In your opinion which garment would hold more moisture after an extended level of activity and what effect would this have on body core temperature after ceasing activity?

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Re: Just Say No To Wicking: Non-Traditional Base Layers Based on a Next-to-Skin Fishnet Model on 11/24/2012 22:44:52 MST Print View

Ken,

Fishnet is a 90's technology that still works adequately. Power Dry High Efficiency is currently the leading base layer for moisture management.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Just Say No To Wicking: Non-Traditional Base Layers Based on a Next-to-Skin Fishnet Model on 11/24/2012 22:58:23 MST Print View

Thanks Richard.

Richard Nisley
(richard295) - M

Locale: San Francisco Bay Area
Re: Re: Re: Re: Fishnet Warmer? on 11/24/2012 23:08:30 MST Print View

ab,

They were in a climate lab using ergometers. The temp was 5c (41F) with a sustained 2 mph wind. They did two 7 MET heating cycles and 2 cool down cycles per test. The only variable was the knit types. The material types were polypropylene for all knits. This test was for all common knits in use during the 90's. Fishnet did the best job of skin surface moisture handling but the core temp curve was the same for all knits at the same point in the test cycle.

Current technology testing generally shows that Power Dry High Efficiency is the best moisture management base layer material. I am trying to stay out of trouble and so I won't mention the worst garment type for holding moisture. I will give you a hint though; it is a material problem rather than a knit problem; and Natick Labs expressly prohibits its use in any ensemble layer.

My original post on this thread was only meant to clarify that underwear per se merely occupies a portion of the still air layer, and, therefore, the nature of underwear has little to do with the over-all thermal insulation, although these results may be independent of subjective comfort.

Edited by richard295 on 11/25/2012 07:52:35 MST.

Rhodri Lewis
(rhodrigeo)
Re: Re: US Dealers on 12/04/2012 06:35:13 MST Print View

Hi Rhodri Lewis here from Nordic life in the UK. We are currently servicing the US (as requested by Brynje), as there is currently no importer. Reliable Racing have done this in the past, but according to Brynje, have not purchased any new stock for about two years. We have serviced some members of this forum and are now set up to service the US. We have reduced are shipping rates also to help out a little. Feel free to email any questions.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: US Dealers on 12/04/2012 07:59:32 MST Print View

Now all you have to do is provide email address

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fishnet Warmer? on 12/04/2012 17:57:53 MST Print View

"Current technology testing generally shows that Power Dry High Efficiency is the best moisture management base layer material."

Based on my individual experience with the Cap 4 Hoody, worn next to skin, in some very high moisture producing situations, I can confirm that. The stuff is simply the best moisture mover I have ever experienced.

Rhodri Lewis
(rhodrigeo)
Re: Re: Re: Re: US Dealers on 12/05/2012 06:58:23 MST Print View

Jerry. Apologies. email@nordiclife.co.uk , web address is www.nordiclife.co.uk
Cheers

Ian Clark
(chindits) - MLife

Locale: Cntrl ROMO
Re: Re: Re: Fishnet Warmer? on 12/12/2012 09:28:05 MST Print View

Richard,

PM inbound for your thoughts on the base layer of choice and proper wear of insulating layers with plate carriers and IOTV now that there use is required OCONUS and even live fire training CONUS.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
fishnet costs on 12/12/2012 12:33:30 MST Print View

maybe BPL should think about becoming a dealer??? the costs for the merino fishnet stuff purchased overseas (or Canada for that matter) is borderline criminal- $100 for a crew neck, $135 for a zip neck- eek!