Just Say No To Wicking: Non-Traditional Base Layers Based on a Next-to-Skin Fishnet Model
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Maia
(maia) - MLife

Locale: Rocky Mountains
Just Say No To Wicking: Non-Traditional Base Layers Based on a Next-to-Skin Fishnet Model on 11/13/2012 21:29:25 MST Print View

Companion forum thread to:

Just Say No To Wicking: Non-Traditional Base Layers Based on a Next-to-Skin Fishnet Model

a b
(Ice-axe)
Re: Just Say No To Wicking: Non-Traditional Base Layers Based on a Next-to-Skin Fishnet Model on 11/13/2012 21:53:25 MST Print View

Gotta show my dad this article next Saturday.
He'll be rolling on the floor.

One addition:
Fishnet underwear for cold wet weather was made in South Western England in the early forties for British Commandos during World war 2.
Thats why my dad will laugh.
He rememebers the people of his village in Pendeen, Penzance in Cornwall, being paid to weave the mesh clothing and none of them at that time could understand what it's use could be.

What is old is new again indeed.

Great work and well done article.

Justin Baker
(justin_baker) - F

Locale: Santa Rosa, CA
Re: Just Say No To Wicking: Non-Traditional Base Layers Based on a Next-to-Skin Fishnet Model on 11/13/2012 22:33:56 MST Print View

I don't get it... how is this any different from wearing no base layer at all?

Lars Laird Iversen
(larslaird) - M
Super for varied activity! on 11/14/2012 00:14:00 MST Print View

Wow! Finally something we Norwegians do well!

I have a Brynje Antarctic, which is a double layer with synthetic mesh closest to the skin, attached to a layer of non-mesh merino. I absolutely love it. In very cold conditions, it lets me still feel light and comfortable. The best thing about it though, is that it is so versatile. As Ryan pointed out when talking about packrafting, it is comfortable when you really work hard, and then - when you stop - it is STILL keeping you warm and dry.

It does chafe, though. Nipples, beware!

Derek Goffin
(Derekoak)

Locale: North of England
new string vest on 11/14/2012 02:06:04 MST Print View

A long time ago I had one. It was only cotton and not fine mesh. It had its advantages but as has been mentioned it was uncomfortable under straps, over nipples and at seams where it was thick. I remember under the armpit. To me the Aclima idea of solid panels at these points would be the best of all worlds. perhaps finer merino mesh would allow some of these areas to be kept mesh. Or maybe I was a softie.

carlos fernandez rivas
(pitagorin) - MLife

Locale: Galicia -Spain
fishnet on 11/14/2012 03:45:47 MST Print View

IĀ“been using fishet base layers for the last 20 years...

Here in Europe are easy to find and lot of cycling apparel brands have fishnet shirts sometimes much cheaper than outdoor brands. To test the concept this cyling shirst could be the best option

About the disadvantages as a standalone garment well ... I suspect that is clear that this garments are designed as a undergarment.

Edited by pitagorin on 11/14/2012 03:55:00 MST.

James Marco
(jamesdmarco) - MLife

Locale: Finger Lakes
Fishnet on 11/14/2012 06:57:47 MST Print View

Thanks, Guys!

Don Selesky
(backslacker) - M
Re: Just Say No To Wicking: Non-Traditional Base Layers Based on a Next-to-Skin Fishnet Model on 11/14/2012 07:36:37 MST Print View

I still use my old polypropylene fishnet shirt I got from L.L. Bean at least 20 years ago. Great for cooler hikes.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Just Say No To Wicking: Non-Traditional Base Layers Based on a Next-to-Skin Fishnet Model on 11/14/2012 08:00:32 MST Print View

Nice article Ryan and Mike - I like the "out of box" thinking

I agree, the wicking concept is more marketing than anything useful

Once you sweat, it's going to take heat to evaporate it, doesn't matter if it gets wicked away from your skin

Maybe it's better to have the sweat stay next to your skin until it evaporates, because that might tend to reduce sweating?

Ryan Jordan
(ryan) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Greater Yellowstone
keeping sweat next to skin on 11/14/2012 09:16:14 MST Print View

Jerry -

The concept of keeping sweat next to skin is an important one to understand, and capitalize on when it happens.

This of course is the beauty of VB clothing and why it is so effective.

When you wear wicking clothes, you lose this sensory perception of discomfort and end up overloading your clothing system with moisture. Then you stop, rest, and "flash off" all that moisture and need a fat parka to combat it.

I suppose I would hypothesize that they more you pay attention to the sensation of sweating, and can sense it when it happens, and make layering / ventilation adjustments accordingly, the drier you'll stay and thus, the lighter your clothing system might become.

But this requires thinking, work, fiddling, and perhaps, additional complexity in the process of layering/adjusting.

David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
wool fishnet on 11/14/2012 09:16:43 MST Print View

I have a set from my Dad that is thick and all wool. The bottoms work really well to
prevent overheating when worn under nylon pants and keep the cold wind from frosting the front of my legs. Work good this way for mosquito too.

The top is good for ski skating, but not so good under a heavy pack.

Michael Martin
(MikeMartin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: North Idaho
Re: fishnet on 11/14/2012 09:36:56 MST Print View

Carlos wrote: "About the disadvantages as a standalone garment well ... I suspect that is clear that this garments are designed as a undergarment."

Yes, certainly. But lightweight backpackers are always looking to minimize weight, often by system integration and multiple use of items. Since fishnet doesn't work well as a sole layer, we have to carry another layer that can serve that role in warmer conditions.

Jerry wrote: "Maybe it's better to have the sweat stay next to your skin until it evaporates, because that might tend to reduce sweating?"

I agree. Except at high exertion levels, if you are sweating, you are too warm. If you are too warm, you want the sweat to cool you. Having it evaporate off of your skin is a good way to do this. If you wick the sweat away from the skin, a) the wicking layer then insulates your skin from the sweat as it evaporates, and b) the wicking layer wets out more easily.

I also want to note that the fibers of a fishnet shirt, be they cotton, poly, or wool, still provide some wicking that improves next-to-skin comfort. But, they simply wick less than a more densely knit/woven shirt due to their much lower skin contact surface area.

Cheers,

Mike

Edited by MikeMartin on 11/14/2012 09:53:46 MST.

Tim Zen
(asdzxc57) - F

Locale: MI
Re: Re: Just Say No To Wicking: Non-Traditional Base Layers Based on a Next-to-Skin Fishnet Model on 11/14/2012 10:33:35 MST Print View

Yes. LL Bean sold this in the 80s. The bottoms were painful when you were sitting
They looked like you walked on the wild side.
They seemed to work well for mE. I used them for downhill
Forgot all about them.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: fishnet on 11/14/2012 10:55:09 MST Print View

Maybe the wicking should go the other direction - towards your skin

Michael Martin
(MikeMartin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: North Idaho
Re: Re: Re: fishnet on 11/14/2012 10:59:34 MST Print View

Jerry wrote: "Maybe the wicking should go the other direction - towards your skin"

Ha! I like to reverse directionally-wicking baselayers (like Powerdry) for that reason to control how warm they are -- Wear the fuzzy side in for maximum warmth; wear the fuzzy side out when it's too warm.

Edited by MikeMartin on 11/14/2012 11:01:14 MST.

Ike Jutkowitz
(Ike) - M

Locale: Central Michigan
re: Fishnets on 11/14/2012 13:03:31 MST Print View

Thanks for the informative article. I think I finally have my wife convinced about the benefits of fishnets for moisture management. Now if only you could provide an article documenting the use of corsets for lumbar support...

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
trail running on 11/14/2012 13:11:39 MST Print View

trail running in cool to cold conditions can be a challenge when it comes to staying even moderately dry; I'd be willing to give fishnet a try- where in the US can aclimba or brynje be sourced stateside?

Michael Gilbertson
(mkgil) - M
Dealers in the US? on 11/14/2012 14:05:00 MST Print View

Is Brynje available in the US?

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Dealers in the US? on 11/14/2012 14:28:18 MST Print View

If you google "fishnet shirt" you can find fishnet shirts, but they're more costume oriented, or X rated

Yuri Pinsker
(ypinsker) - MLife
US Distributors/Online Dealers on 11/14/2012 14:39:53 MST Print View

Thank you for the great article and research. Were the items used in the testing procured in the U.S.? From online dealers?