As part of my lessons learned from the being cold fiasco (another thread) I think i would like to revert back to synth base layers....but i really like the hoodies i have (BPL and anotherone)

Is there in existence a thin (comparable to BPL) synthetic hoddie??

Mike

Patagonia Men's Capilene 4 EW 1/4 Zip Hoody

Richard - i saw that...but isnt it way heavier (i was looking for a "classic" base layer in the 130-160gsm range (like Cap2 i guess)

Edited by mike_hefetz on 11/07/2012 04:20:20 MST.

Melanzana Micro Grid Hoodie. I picked one up last time I was in Leadville CO. It is pretty sweet. Super soft, and very breathable.

does anybody know the weight on any of these? namely weight per sq yard

I read somewhere in the gear forum that Patagonia's new Capilene4 comes in at 3.7oz/yd. The Hoody comes in around 8 oz I think.

the Cap 4 hoody is more of a midweight layer imo than a base layer, it's in the 9 oz range for size Large

in colder weather I usually have several hooded garments at my disposal- mid-layer, windshirt, puffy; but never felt the need for a hood on my thin base layers, might be the reason there isn't too many offered

Here's a really light one; though not exactly the latest in synthetic fabric. It's made of modal which is a type of rayon which evidently sort of like wool feels dryer against the skin because of its hrgroscopic properties of water absorption rather than hydroscopic water repellant type properties like polyester fabrics.

http://www.amazon.com/Cuddl-Duds-Womens-Softwear-Stretch/dp/B003ZDOR26/ref=sr_1_30?ie=UTF8&qid=1352312585&sr=8-30&keywords=cuddle+dud

the medium hoody weighs 6.5 oz and is so stretchy it really functions like a barely snug large sized base layer.

The hygroscopic properties are interesting. Maybe Richard Nisley could weigh-in on modal/rayon as a next to skin material.

Just guessing but the cuddle duds brand may be commercially successful in part because these hygroscopic properties keep the fabric feeling dry against the skin, coupled maybe with the fabric being relatively inexpensive and feeling so soft. The material has a very light and open weave almost like hosiery with the spandex probably providing the framework/structure for the modal/rayon material. I guess in high exertion activity there might be somewhat of a "wetsuit" effect with moisture being absorbed by the fabric and kept next to the skin. Still the weave is very thin and open.... so maybe the retention kind of counter-balances the evaporative cooling and the whole thing feels better because of those hygroscopic properties. I've worn mine for limited periods (a few hours)of pretty high exertion in pretty cool weather under a shell and liked it but I haven't measured the moisture retention or drying times. The stuff might be a very poor choice for sustained high exertion activity for all I know. I've also used a non-hooded top (3.2 oz) as a lightweight sleepwear layer to provide a little extra warmth while keeping the bag clean and maybe the hygroscopic properties might help keep more moisture out of the bag's insulation but that would take some fancy equipment to measure and quantify.

Ahh the age old question: What happens to both sensible(sweat)and insensible(water vapor)moisture once it passes through the skin? Where does it go and how does it get there?

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Modal is a type of rayon[1], a semi-synthetic cellulose fiber made by spinning reconstituted cellulose, in this case often from beech trees. Modal is used alone or with other fibers (often cotton or spandex) in household items such as towels, bathrobes, underwear and bedsheets.

Manufacturers claim a number of advantages for the fiber: about 50% more hygroscopic (water-absorbent) per unit volume than cotton, takes dye like cotton, color-fast when washed in warm water, resistant to shrinkage and fading but prone to stretching and pilling. It is also claimed that mineral deposits from hard water do not stick to the fabric surface. It is smooth and soft, more so than mercerized cotton, though some perceive it to have a synthetic texture. Modal fabrics should be washed at lower temperatures and like cotton, are often ironed after washing.

Michel,

You said, "...I really like the hoodies. I have BPL and anotherone."

My wool size L BPL hoodie weighs 8.75oz. and my size XL Cap 4 hoody (wrong size delivered) weighs 8.64 oz. In contrast, my size L R1 hoody weighs 12.77 oz.

Edited by richard295 on 11/07/2012 15:39:18 MST.

If it is warm enough for me to wear a base layer or base with shell, then I don't need a hood on the base layer. I have a hood on my wind shell which would be good at those temps. As it gets colder and moving up a mid layer using something like a Patagonia R1 or Power Stretch, then a hood can come into play.

@richard

i didnt realize that...so you are saying thatessentially they are very similar in as much as gsm...

so CAP2 is how light?

Mike

Cap 1 long sleeve is ~ 4.5 oz, Cap 2 5.5 oz

Mike,

What size?

those are from Patagonia's site- Men's medium

I've always wondered what the weight differences were in Cap, Merino, and Regulator. It takes some browsing on patagonia's site, but I found this:

Cap 1, 3.7oz
Cap 2, 4.0oz
Cap 3, 4.8oz
Cap 4, 5.3oz

Merino 1, 3.2
2, 4.4
3, 6.9
4, 7.8

Regulator Insulation-lofted hollow-core fibers
R1, Polartec Powerdry, high/low grid, 6.8oz, jacket 13.3oz
R2, Polartec ThermoPro, mid-wt,fur-like, 6.1oz, jacket 13.1oz
R3, Polartec ThermoPro, high pile, fur-like, 7.4oz, jacket 16.7oz
R4, Polartec Windbloc, stretchy light weight (with membrane), 13oz, jacket 22.2oz

Don't know the relative thermo properties. R1 is almost twice the weight of Cap1. And, R1 is denser than R2.

I'd be interested in Richard's consideration of the Cap4 hoody as a replacement for the R1 hoody in his layering protocol.

Edited by roblee on 11/07/2012 22:50:32 MST.

So what do you guys wear for normal 3 season backpacking as base layer?

I thought the BPL merino hoodie was lightweight ...but Richard is saying it is similar in weight to Pata C4 hoodie....

So in weather that is sunny and in 5o's - would you wear this alone or lighter?

what would you say is the temp range vs cpliene numbr chart?

With the new grid pattern, which you really have to see to appreciate, I'd think that the Cap 4 hoody could work across a wide range of temperatures. Without a layer over it, it would vent like mad. With a layer, it could be pretty warm, depending on what you layered.

This latest Cap 4 is 3.7 oz/yard. The grid fleece with the large voids really bends the normal relationship between fabric weight and warmth. It adapts to an impressively wide range of temperatures, but is still a <40 degree only garment for me.

Here are some more weights and options:

Patagonia R4 (wind block) jacket, XL, 21oz

EMS Power Stretch full zip hoodie, XL, 14oz

Marmot Power Stretch full zip vest, XL, 8oz

MEC Power Dry (like R1) 1/2 zip vest, XL 7oz

The R4 jacket is really a soft shell and and has the same limitations. I would rather have the Power Stretch hoodie or vest to be combined with a windshirt or rain shell.

I ran across the EMS vest used and I'm impressed with the balance of warmth, breathability, weight and compact size. Perfect with a windshirt.

for all year base layer I use Capilene 1 (some prefer Cap 2)- I view the new Cap 4 is a mid layer (albeit a lighter and more breathable mid layer say vs the R1), as such it's use is restricted to shoulder/winter season

the BPL hoody is a lighter weight material and while I wouldn't wear it in the very hottest weather, it would probably serve well for a lot of 3 season use (much like the Merino 1 from Patagonia)