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Mike Oxford
(moxford) - MLife

Locale: Silicon Valley, CA
Urination on 10/23/2012 12:57:53 MDT Print View

Interesting point about urinating before sleeping.

I'd always thought that have the fluid in you actually helped. Once it was warm it was not exposed to outside elements so it actually acted as a heat reservoir (internal warm water bottle!)

May have to research that. What's the overall consensus here, discomfort notwithstanding?

To Pee Or Not To Pee, That Is Thine Question.

-mox

James Marco
(jamesdmarco) - MLife

Locale: Finger Lakes
Re: Urination on 10/23/2012 13:31:45 MDT Print View

Uh, oh,... not another Pee War.
It doesn't matter 'slong as you are comfortable.
No more on that subject....

Stephen Barber
(grampa) - MLife

Locale: SoCal
re: Re: Urination on 10/23/2012 13:49:06 MDT Print View

James, yer innate sense of humor should tell you that Mike's just kidding!

Edited by grampa on 10/23/2012 13:49:40 MDT.

John Donewar
(Newton) - MLife

Locale: Southeastern Louisiana
Re: A Lost Day Hiker on 10/23/2012 13:51:16 MDT Print View

The "hosts" of this exercise seemed to have given the participants a lot of wiggle room on the "allowed" gear.

A day hiker would probably have a lumbar pack or a small capacity day pack like a Flash 18 and maybe 1 liter of water. A tarp and a bivy would probably have been a no show in either pack.

Nothing with an on/off switch is a limitation that I would question. Very few people these days go anywhere without their cell phone. They talk, text, IM and take pictures & videos. That would be a source of some minimal light and possible communication. These days with the right GPS app, you're on your way home and not lost anymore.

I have no problems with the available and worn clothing except the dedicated "leather gloves for rope-work". ;-?

Urination?!? Sooner or later it will happen. L O L

Do it first and stay as insulated as you can for as long as you can.

Party On,

Newton

Mike Oxford
(moxford) - MLife

Locale: Silicon Valley, CA
Gear on 10/23/2012 14:12:38 MDT Print View

Yes, I had the gloves for rope work.

Hikers may have had extra food, maybe even a lighter, cell phone, etc.

Give and take, lots of wiggle room. It wasn't Survivor ... just a drill with some given limitations. Don't read into it too much. :)

-mox

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
re bladders on 10/23/2012 14:30:13 MDT Print View

> A full bladder is a container of useless fluid that your body is trying to keep at
> 98.6* by shivering. If you "eliminate" it you'll be and feel warmer.
Bit of a myth here. A full bladder is deep inside you and does NOT affect how warm you stay.

However, squirming around with a full bladder will let cold drafts in, and when you finally go out for relief you will get cold, and when you try to get back into your improvised bed you won't get it as well arranged and as warm. So there is definitely some effect!

All that aside, I must agree with the idea of going for a short walk before bed. Then I KNOW I am OK until morning.

Cheers

James Marco
(jamesdmarco) - MLife

Locale: Finger Lakes
Re: re: Re: Urination on 10/23/2012 14:36:35 MDT Print View

I though it was funny the first time. 8-}
The Late And Great Pee Wars, definitive proof that pissing in your shoe is not an act of your nation, but rather an act of treason perpetrated and perpetuated by Mr. Johnson in order to sully and muddy the waters of your nation.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: What Would BPL Do... on 10/23/2012 14:42:07 MDT Print View

+1 on getting the wet stuff off and layering everything else possible.

+1 on using all the *dry* natural materials available.

I would have used the SOL bivy inside the Tyvek one to get whatever reflected heat and more layers of dead air. It is just like having another windshirt on.

I would have pitched the tarp in a low a-frame if possible, with just enough room to turn over.

This sort of "Gilligan Day Hike" scenario is why I preach on taking essentials every time, with the core stuff in a pocket. My pocket kit with flashlight, knife, firesteel, tinder, match case, compass and whistle would have rounded out the items you had on hand.

John Donewar
(Newton) - MLife

Locale: Southeastern Louisiana
Re: re bladders on 10/23/2012 15:21:23 MDT Print View

Roger,

"A full bladder is deep inside you..."

If it is a myth being debunked so be it!

We all come here to share and to learn. But I do take issue with your statement about the bladder being "...deep inside you..."

Look at the picture of yourself in your avatar. Deep is a relative thing. What frame of reference do you have? LOL

I couldn't resist. ;-)

Party On,

Newton

Mary D
(hikinggranny) - MLife

Locale: Gateway to Columbia River Gorge
Old controversy on 10/23/2012 15:56:29 MDT Print View

IMHO, if you gotta go, you gotta go!

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: re bladders on 10/24/2012 00:13:53 MDT Print View

Hi John

Wikipedia has some reasonable sketches of the bladder. It sits inside the pelvic cradle. That's 'deep inside' in my book.

Cheers

John Donewar
(Newton) - MLife

Locale: Southeastern Louisiana
Re: Wikipedia has some reasonable sketches of the bladder. on 10/24/2012 01:16:32 MDT Print View

Roger,

I was just kidding. Guess I need to stick to "dry" humor. ;-)

Party On,

Newton

Rod Lawlor
(Rod_Lawlor) - MLife

Locale: Australia
Hey Roger on 10/24/2012 02:48:25 MDT Print View

I think John was alluding to the fact that there's not really anywhere in YOUR abdominal cavity that could really be classified as deep.

Rod

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Hey Roger on 10/24/2012 03:22:56 MDT Print View

oh

Justin Baker
(justin_baker) - F

Locale: Santa Rosa, CA
Re: What Would BPL Do... on 11/08/2012 05:09:07 MST Print View

This guy did a really good video on making an insulating mattress with natural materials.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srKBPiHOZ1g&feature=plcp
There is no such thing as too much insulation from the ground. Even when I am carrying a sleeping pad, I still sometimes supplement it with natural materials to keep warmer.

Phillip Asby
(PGAsby) - M

Locale: North Carolina
Intersting exercise on 11/08/2012 09:16:58 MST Print View

I'm a beginner backpacker and a neophyte lightweight backpacker. I have done a fair bit of day hiking however and spent some time considering emergency preparedness living in hurricane country. I understand they have to set parameters based I suppose on the average day hiker - but since I hike mostly with kids I generally have more gear than the average hiker perhaps. Like Newton, I always have a knife, I always have a flashlight, I always have a smartphone, I always have a small multitool and a small lighter on a day to day basis as EDC. On a day hike I always have extra food and extra clothing. what I don't have is shelter other than a space blanket, but it depends a bit on the prospective weather... might contemplate more makeshift shelter supplies like a small tarp.

Still it is great to have a chance to, within a controlled environment, put your skills and preparedness to the test. The factor I disagree with the most I guess is fire - since that is pretty much a standard item in even the most minimalist kit.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Day hikers equipment on 11/08/2012 10:09:56 MST Print View

I see day hikers on the trail with no equipment an a regular basis. I see them in cotton sweats and flip-flops, no water bottle, no backpack or fanny pack, nada.

Every year there are stories of unprepared folk who were going for an afternoon walk and got themselves in a mess--- what I call "Gilligan hikes ." The evening news has a clip of the haggard sunburned victims being led to the trailhead by SAR wrapped in a space blanket.

The other common report is about an "experienced" hiker who is overdue and assumed lost. Many times it turns out that they are experienced at walking a well defined trail, but have no navigation gear or don't know how to use it, and are clueless to basic survival technique. They typically get themselves totally turned around and end up miles from their intended destination with no essentials. The scary ones are those who don't tell anyone where they are going and are usually located when a ranger finds their vehicle at a trailhead, giving SAR a place to start.

There was an incident a couple years back where a hiker who was a state patrolman and military veteran who got lost on a winter hike very deep in the Cacades. He also forgot his tent and nearly died of hypothermia. Why someone with disaster and military training couldn't improvise a shelter and build a fire is beyond me.

I was walking the Monte Cristo trail one day to find a couple who were lost. The "trail" is an abandoned road. They wanted to be on a trail on the other side of a river which they crossed to get to the point where I met them. In other words, with map in hand, they took a 90 degree turn from an obvious trail, crossed a large river and ended up on a road rather than a trail, with all clearly defined on the map.

To add tothe story, he was wearing a frame pack with an extension and loaded to the top. His wife was wearing a small day pack. He was overweight and pouring sweat while hiking on a gently sloping road. I directed them to the forest service campground at the end of the road. He said he would probably go to a lake high above the campground that he saw on his map instead. I feared for them.