I prefer the Q&A idea. CAPTCHA always feels more like GOTCHA to me because half the time I can't read the darn thing. It seems to do a better job blocking people than bots.

From Wikipedia -

"CAPTCHA is vulnerable to a relay attack that uses humans to solve the puzzles. One approach involves relaying the puzzles to a group of human operators who can solve CAPTCHAs. In this scheme, a computer fills out a form and when it reaches a CAPTCHA, it gives the CAPTCHA to the human operator to solve.

Spammers pay about $0.80 to $1.20 for each 1,000 solved CAPTCHAs to companies employing human solvers in Bangladesh, China, India, and many other developing nations.[23] Other sources cite a cost as low as $0.50 for each 1,000 solved."

Someone is out there waiting to make $.001 on your challenge....

Nothing is as simple as you might hope.

Dan writes:
>Q) When it's winter, precipitation most commonly falls as...

A) Rain

At least within 100 miles of here. Lots of rain where I live. Snow is headline news.

I'd probably fail this test.

Maybe tests like this should allow for a small number of reasonable answers, e.g. snow, rain, tree drip :-)

And my friends in Houston would also answer "rain".

"From the redwood forest, to the gulf stream waters
This land was made for you and me."

Yeah, a simple methode for spammers is to simply register themselves, as humans. Then bot as many posts as the can before getting knocked off. Obviosly, this has been tried and results in large amounts of spam.

If a spammer can make money on a spam messages, then spamming will be done. Someone, somewhere will benefit. Besides using automagic tecniquies, which can all be broken, there needs to be a cost associated with it that allows the registering party to have some confidence that it is MORE expensive to register and spam than simply ignore the site. Using "slave" labour means no cost. If he has to pay, he won't.

Even delaying him by moderating his posts really is not a solution. It is only another delay. In any group of ten people, chances are they can type ten reasonble messages to get by this moderation...then spammmmmmmmmmm.

I would suggest a refundable cost, or garantee, when registering. If you start spamming, it is forefit. Or a membership fee, as is now in place. Anything that makes the spm more expensive than not.

Just another thought to add to the mix...

It seems to me if spammers can hire cheap labor to solve "captchas", they could hired to solve Q&A's as well. Perhaps a trial membership, returnable (prorated) if no spamming took place, would be the best option? Maybe a separate category for industry reps?

Having just spent the last four years of my life in Houston, I think an appropriate answer would actually be "what's winter?". ;-D

> It seems to me if spammers can hire cheap labor to solve "captchas", they could hired to solve Q&A's as well. Perhaps a trial membership, returnable (prorated) if no spamming took place, would be the best option?

You would kill your forum if you instituted such a policy. It's bad enough our's is still blocked after 5 days. It would be interesting to know if anyone has joined.

I've never heard of a forum do that, and human spammers have never been a problem for any forum I'm aware of that uses a reasonable anti-spam measure such as Q&A.

Just use the QA solution as a temporary stopgap instead of the payed membership. Waaay better in the short term, and you have to work on a long term solution either way.

Edited by lindahlb on 10/27/2012 08:11:12 MDT.

Maybe the spamming is an inside job! HaHa!

I am always perplexed by the people that complain about having to cough up $25.00 for something they love. What a joke. Some people say there are other forums. I say go to your other forums. There is only one BPL. Viva BPL! At least this will end the spam on the Carbon Flame War thread or somebody will have to cough up at least $25.00!

From another point of view; Anyone that studies forums much will notice that it's always the same damn people that post - to me, that gets old fast - that to me means a forum is dead. It even looks as if the people that participate in them get paid to be there. It seems different here at BPL. I think it may be more effective if people pay to talk rather than get paid to talk. There seems to be a wider participation here than the usual forums - people even pay to play. There is more quality here and a quality that is worth investing in. I think much of the quality here comes about because people are attracted that have the ability to assess the value of things - it makes for a more colorful playing field. It sure is a good thing that if someone does not like that, they can go elsewhere to play - would be terrible if they couldn't!

Edited by wildlife on 10/27/2012 13:32:59 MDT.

Just spammed again, by a non member.

Better get with it. Should have been fixed already. It's embarrassing how long you have been talking about updating the site. And now it has come to this. Seriously, It has been year upon year of talk. I can dig up links, I have the free time.

I'd tell you to pat yourself on the back, but I'm actually thinking a bit lower. But I'll bet your kicking yourself now anyway.

This sucks. Bad.

Perfect timing with your trip too. What cosmic powers are at work there? Having a spammer on the trip could be fun.

+1 with Dan. Viva BPL

Once again I ask for an exact $ figure on what it will cost to fix this problem. You might just get it. The forums are certainly valuable to a lot of us. Perhaps many of us find it more valuable than you do. Stating that only 20% of MLifers participate, access the forums, I can see how you can look past it/us.

Don't overlook the offers of help with this problem from forum members who work in this field. The answers to your problems may lie closer than you think.

My dear old mother has a saying, Sh*t or get off the pot.

The time for action has long since passed.

It's a big dang mess that we all saw coming. Told you so.

Edit: reversing my previous mo I added text to this post not deleting.

Edited by kthompson on 10/28/2012 19:22:11 MDT.

Wow, and of course the usual edited by kthompson.......

nice postive post

Dan, I have been thinking the same thing that it is someone that is disgruntled about BPL....really I do.

" Perhaps a trial membership, returnable (prorated) if no spamming took place, would be the best option?"



What is the reasoning that leads you to such a conclusion? If the registering party is guaranteed their money back after a month, what is the objection?

Positive, smositive

This is messed up. Been messed up

We have all messed up

Yes I'm being harsh, negative, mean, hateful, trolling, what the f ever else you want to add on there.

As BPL's favorite critic(just ask)this is my role.

I'm mad because I care. I don't need Ken H. to act as my conscience. You're not qualified anyway.

To Thine self be true.

Don't like it, don't read it.

Nice train wreck.

Let's fix this.

Edited by kthompson on 10/27/2012 19:19:15 MDT.

I just thought of another way to allow our friends in and keep what we already have.

We archive the current site as it is.

Then we open a new BPL on brand new software and begin a-new with everyone.

Hi all

From Ryan just now:


I'm getting ready to leave in the morning to teach the WTS course in the Anaconda-Pintler Wilderness and will be away until next Monday.

1. I am unable to lock new registrations easily right now due to problems with the integration of registration for accounts with registration for subscriptions.

Therefore:

2. We will be installing a low-fee forum subscription that will allow users to post. When that happens, all users who were registered forum participants prior to the lockdown will be grandfathered in with a new subscription at no cost. I can't tell you when this will happen, but this is the short term solution, and would occur in a matter of 2 weeks perhaps.

That's all I can tell you right now, and it's about all we can do with the software we have; we are going to take some time to carefully evaluate longer term options.


'Low Fee' means a few dollars: not enough to scare anyone, but quite enough to stop the spammers who (I am told) get paid about $1 per 1000 postings.

Yes, the current Forum SW is a handicap, but it holds the Forum Archive. Do we want to lose that? Our first guess is No Way.

Cheers
Roger

Hi all

From Ryan just now:


I'm getting ready to leave in the morning to teach the WTS course in the Anaconda-Pintler Wilderness and will be away until next Monday.

1. I am unable to lock new registrations easily right now due to problems with the integration of registration for accounts with registration for subscriptions.

Therefore:

2. We will be installing a low-fee forum subscription that will allow users to post. When that happens, all users who were registered forum participants prior to the lockdown will be grandfathered in with a new subscription at no cost. I can't tell you when this will happen, but this is the short term solution, and would occur in a matter of 2 weeks perhaps.

That's all I can tell you right now, and it's about all we can do with the software we have; we are going to take some time to carefully evaluate longer term options.


'Low Fee' means a few dollars: not enough to scare anyone, but quite enough to stop the spammers who (I am told) get paid about $1 per 1000 postings.

Yes, the current Forum SW is a handicap, but it holds the Forum Archive. Do we ant to lose that? Our first guess is No Way.

Cheers
Roger

Roger, Ryan, Good Job!

Yeah, I had suspected it was not about "what to do" so much as "How to do it."
Adding a single line of code is trivial. Determining where to put it in old code is often the more difficult task.

See below about not being able to code at ALL...

Edited by jamesdmarco on 10/29/2012 05:08:08 MDT.

How about:

1. Using CAPTCHA to enter BPL (not log on)
2. Creating TWO levels of membership
a. Standard Membership at standsrd fee for posting and reading articles
b. Posting ONLY membership at $1. fee
3. spam/foreign language recognition software protection (Sorry amigos)

ESET's NOD software may be of some help.

It seems that one way to counter the spam attack is to limit the number of allowed posts. I suggest that you consider a "tiered membership" in which $5/month buys you a limited number of posts, $15/month more posts/month, and $25 unlimited.

I don't mind paying for something that has real worth, and BPL certainly fits that description. The articles here are well worth paying for.

I also wish you'd bring back at least *some* ability to obtain gear of a UL/SUL nature. I miss the unique items you used to have available here, though I'm sure this was, for you, too much trouble and possibly too time-consuming an enterprise.

Good luck for the future. Not having this site would be a real loss.