3 day trail run kit
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Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
3 day trail run kit on 10/11/2012 08:29:09 MDT Print View

I'm thinking about tackling the Wonderland Trail as a multi-day trail run. I've seen some folks utilize a team to pickup them up at the end of the day and deliver them again in the morning to resume, it certainly works, but I'm more interested in a unsupported trip. If I was one of a handful of elite ultra runners I could do it in a day (long day!), but I'm not :) 30-ish miles/day is more what I had in mind-so ~ 3 days/2 nights.

I want to keep it relatively simple and light. I'm pretty sure I can do w/o a stove using a mix of "real" food and "running" food. Shelter/sleeping system I'm not sure how spartan a person dares go???? Pack would have to obviously be geared towards running- I've been using a vest pack of late and like it (it's too small for an multi-day trip though).

Anyone every do something along these lines? ideas?

danke

Mike

Ike Jutkowitz
(Ike) - M

Locale: Central Michigan
Here's mine on 10/11/2012 09:57:43 MDT Print View

Unsupported Trail running gear list
Good to lows in the high 30s. I could probably go much lower in weight, but I'm not willing to give up that hot meal after a long day, or a measure of safety if things go badly (as an unsupported 3 day run for me easily could).

Krupica's 3 day gear list would probably look something like this:
Black shorts
Handheld (optional)

Hiking Malto
(gg-man) - F
Trail run kit on 10/11/2012 10:34:27 MDT Print View

Mike,
If i was doing this trail I would take my MLD burn, tarp, bivy, quilt and light inflatable pad. Total less than 4 lb. Definitely no cook and limited clothing or other stuff. Pretty much I would take a slightly stripped down thru hiking kit. I have done many runs/fast hikes with this setup and I have no issue running with it. Three days worth of food could push the limit a bit but that will get reduced over time. Could you lighten up the sleep system? Sure but I view a good nights sleep as being critical to being able to get up and do it again tomorrow.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
kit on 10/11/2012 10:47:14 MDT Print View

Ike- looks like a very well thought out kit, I didn't realize how light a cuben poncho-tarp was!

you nailed Krupicka's gear list, of course he would simply run it in a day :)

Greg- your right, a good night's sleep would be a really high priority- too spartan and that would go out the window. a short inflatable would go along ways towards that goal

Mike

Thom Darrah
(thomdarrah) - MLife

Locale: Southern Oregon
3 day trail run kit on 10/11/2012 11:02:48 MDT Print View

Mike,
I'm in (schedule and health allowing)!

I would use a kit similar to what Greg listed:

pack: custom MLD Burn
bivy: custom MLD SL Bivy (no tarp)
quilt: MLD Spirit 48
pad: Inertia X Lite TORSO pad
shell: patagonia Houdini
insulation: patagonia R1 PO or Nano Puff PO
head; Patagonia Alpine Beanie
hands: DeFeet Handskins
socks: extra pair of socks
Accessories: first aid and head lamp
* no cook food/fuel (bars/gels/powders)

Edited by thomdarrah on 10/11/2012 11:03:25 MDT.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
wonderland on 10/11/2012 11:11:54 MDT Print View

Thom- sounds good! :)

what are your thoughts on no tarp- I know there is a better than fair chance of at least some precip- does the custom SL bivy have a waterproof top? I have a SL and the DWR is pretty good, but I don't know how it would fare in a lengthy rain

Mike

Thom Darrah
(thomdarrah) - MLife

Locale: Southern Oregon
3 day trail run kit on 10/11/2012 11:33:31 MDT Print View

Mike,
My custom SL Bivy has a 3L event top and cuben bottom, this is what I would use if not taking/using a tarp. If taking a shared duo tarp I would opt for my lighter standard SL Bivy.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: 3 day trail run kit on 10/11/2012 11:59:26 MDT Print View

Mike
sounds like you're getting more and more hooked since our jaunt down the Grand Canyon.

This is Washington state right ? home of never ending rain ? What time of year would you do this ?

If the weather is warm I would skip any kind of stove.

There seems to be disagreement over clothing v.s. a sleeping bag.
I'd like to hear peoples pros and cons v.s. each option.
my thought is the same weight in clothing provides more flexibility than just a sleeping bag/quilt ... although not quite as warm in the dead of night.

Aaron Sorensen
(awsorensen) - MLife

Locale: South of Forester Pass
Re: Re: 3 day trail run kit on 10/11/2012 22:59:01 MDT Print View

A sleeping bag and your jacket you would have anyway is much warmer than just the jacket. Being warm at night makes for a great next day were being cold makes it miserable,

Are you looking at everything fitting in about 15 liters?

I would bring my 4 ounce cuben tarp, 1/8" pad with ground cloth, 15 ounce quilt, osprey 11 pack and a synthetic jacket.

I would also cook with alcohol.

This wouldn't even come close to filling the pack but if it was packed loose it would fit and wear just right.

I'm looking forward to more 3 day 80-100 mile trips in the seirras with this set up, (other than a 20 ounce sleeping bag).

John Zahorian
(johnzahorian) - F
Re: Here's mine on 10/12/2012 09:11:57 MDT Print View

What is your ZPacks "Ultrarunner"? I've been thinking about customizing a ZPacks Zero for trail running with up to five days without resupply and by the looks of it you have already done that. VERY interested in hearing your input on that.

Ike Jutkowitz
(Ike) - M

Locale: Central Michigan
@john on 10/14/2012 05:52:39 MDT Print View

Hi John,
You can see the pack here. There is a closeup in one of the final comments.

I will pm you with additional details to avoid thread drift.

Edited by Ike on 10/14/2012 05:55:25 MDT.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
wonderland on 10/14/2012 13:18:38 MDT Print View

Thom- ahh extra custom bivy :) can I ask what it weighs?

Art- yeah I'm pretty much hooked now :) Looking at late August to late Sept for the trip- always a chance of rain in the PNW

Ike- nice looking pack indeed

Aaron- yup, I'm hoping to get the kit into roughly 12-15 liters- from what I've read water is plentiful, so not a lot weight to be carried there and food weight will be diminishing as we go

Mike

Dirk Rabdau
(dirk9827) - F

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Wonderland on 10/14/2012 13:37:12 MDT Print View

I don't know if you already plan to, but you could use the existing ranger stations along the way to cache food - just mail it to them or drop it off before your trip. The areas where you can cache food include: a) Longmire, b) Sunrise, c) Mowich Lake. They will cache fuel as well, but I don't think you can mail alcohol.

Depending when you tackle this challenge and the snow year, you can have vastly different experiences, of course. I'd recommend late August - the weather is at its absolute best generally and there is considerable longer days. I live with 45 minutes of the mountain, and can attest that mid-to-late August would probably be a nice balance of weather and lack of snow. In big snow years, you will still likely encounter snow, especially between Indian Bar and Ohanapakosh.

Where do you plan to start and are you talking about clockwise or counter-clockwise?

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Re: Trail run kit on 10/14/2012 18:59:43 MDT Print View

spam

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: Re: Re: 3 day trail run kit on 10/14/2012 19:01:21 MDT Print View

spam

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: Re: Wonderland on 10/15/2012 18:22:57 MDT Print View

Dirk- haven't worked out details as which direction or starting point, I have read several accounts where they tackled the steepest third on the first day, but I don't recall what section that was- do you have a recommended direction and starting point?

never thought about caching food, not sure if it would be worth it for three days- maybe it would??????

is there much difference in crowds (or ease of permits) between later August and late September?- big difference here in Montana

MIke

Dirk Rabdau
(dirk9827) - F

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: 3 day trail run kit on 10/16/2012 02:19:21 MDT Print View

Mike -

In regards to crowds, the answer is a definitive yes, August is generally the busiest time of year. It's a permitted route and there is a lottery. You must camp at designated campsites. The lottery happens in late winter/early spring. If you can be flexible with start/end dates that works best. Even without a permit, they do keep some available for walk-up, but then the choices for campsites can be limited.

All that said, it is far easier to get a permit in September as fewer people want a permit then. It still books up but tends to be more flexible. I personally would go for late August/early September. There tends to be fewer bugs later in the season, much like Montana.

I am not a trail runner but have hiked the Wonderland and section hiked it many times as it's close by....I would consider the west side to be the toughest (and less crowded) section because it has greatest gain/loss...You start at Longmire and follow the trail clockwise. It's an easy to access start point. The advantage of starting at this point is that you can even stay a night prior to your hike camping or in a park lodge or alternatively, just outside the park at one of many hotel/b&b places.

You could do something like -
Day 1 Longmire to South Mowich River ~30 miles
Day 2 South Mowich River to FryingPan Creek Trailhead ~32 miles
Day 3 FryingPan Creek Trailhead to Lonmire ~31 miles

Another tough Day 1 would be:

Day 1 Mowich Lake to Summerland ~ 32 miles
Day 2 Summerland to Pyramid Creek ~ 31 miles
Day 2 Pyramid Creek to Mowich Lake ~ 30 miles

These aren't the camp spots everyone wants to stay at - but if you are running all day and great camp sites aren't the reason for going,they will do the job just fine.

There are many day hikers on certain sections of the Wonderland on weekend. Thus, I'd advise you to avoid the weekend if possible, especially in areas that draw greater crowds, such as the stretches between White River and Summerland/Indian Bar as well as selected areas near Mowich Lake (especially if you elect to go Spray Park instead of the official Wonderland route, which is less scenic) and some congestion near Sunrise.


Dirk

Edited by dirk9827 on 10/16/2012 19:28:54 MDT.

James Berwick
(jhb0510) - F
Food on 10/16/2012 03:53:27 MDT Print View

I would think very seriously about living on bars for 3 days, both from the boredom and weicht point of view.
When I go out for a couple of days, I find that wholemeal cous cous is a really good way of getting carbs into you. An esbit/ beercan setup weighs nect to nothing and means you can eat hot food in the evening and morning, which is very good psycologically especially if it is cold and wet. I think that you will also find that weight/calorie ratio is better.
James

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: Re: 3 day trail run kit on 10/16/2012 08:18:23 MDT Print View

Dirk- thanks for the detailed insights- very much appreciated! I will definitely shoot for mid-week. I imagine we'll soak up some great scenery along the way and camp will simply be a place to crash- so I'm sure those would work just fine. Starting and finishing w/ a motel nearby would be very advantageous!

James- I agree that a warm meal in the evening would be most welcome :)- I have a 450 ti mug and a small ti esbit stove that are very small/light that'll I give careful consideration in taking- heck I could even get a cup of joe in the morning that way!

Mike

James Berwick
(jhb0510) - F
MSR ti mug on 10/20/2012 03:14:23 MDT Print View

Hi Mike
Thats not far off what I have. I have an MRS ti mug, which complete with stove home made cone and cosy weigh 6 oz and will boil the mug of water with half an esbit tablet. At that weight I don't think it is worth not having a hot meal!