The New "Worlds lightest cannister stove"?
Display Avatars Sort By:
Roger B
(rogerb) - MLife

Locale: Here and there
Re: Re: Re: Re: The New "Worlds lightest canister stove"? on 12/06/2012 12:38:35 MST Print View

Tracksterman's latest video on the stove is interesting, is it a dud or is it a design problem?

Tracksterman Video


It is a slow download

Edited by rogerb on 12/06/2012 12:40:25 MST.

Erik Basil
(EBasil) - M

Locale: Atzlan
Re: The New "Worlds lightest canister stove"? on 12/06/2012 14:36:01 MST Print View

Tracksterman's video/test results are tainted, though. In the second lighting, he uses his left hand that time. Totally different conditions, man.

More seriously, it sure looks like something swells up and blocks the fuel delivery when that stovehead gets hot.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The New "Worlds lightest canister stove"? on 12/06/2012 16:42:27 MST Print View

> Tracksterman's latest video on the stove is interesting, is it a dud or is it a
> design problem?
Dunno, but very interesting.

Observations:
The FMS stove worked at the start, with good power.
The canister does not seem to have frozen as the other stove worked fine near the end.
The FMS stove did not work later when it was replaced, so the problem was still in the stove.

From this I would say that the jet was getting blocked. Now the jets in these recent Fire Maple stoves are interesting, in that they have a sintered filter stuffed into a cavity in the base of the jet. This is to stop dirt from getting to the tiny jet hole. But there is no obvious way to clean the sintered filter if it collects a lot of dirt! I have had that happen.

What I have done, with great success, is to extract the little filter. It's a plug of tiny brass balls (I think) all sintered together somehow. I used a small stub drill slightly smaller than the rear hole in the jet body for this, but a BS1 centre drill might do fine. Not sure about a BS1 centre drill. The sintered plug comes out fairly easily.

Removing the sintered filter left a cavity in the back of the jet. So I put a *wee* bit of TP I there to act as a filter. The difference is that I can extract the bit of TP in the field and replace it very easily.

As I said before, I used one of these for months with no problems - but the filter in the jet had been modified. I have warned Fire Maple about the problem with the sintered filter, but I have yet to see whether they have taken any notice.

Cheers

Roger B
(rogerb) - MLife

Locale: Here and there
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The New "Worlds lightest canister stove"? on 12/07/2012 00:23:06 MST Print View

Thanks Roger, that makes for interesting reading. I presume the 116T and 117T use a different arrangement behind the jet. BTW interesting use of TP : )

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The New "Worlds lightest canister stove"? on 12/07/2012 03:29:20 MST Print View

> I presume the 116T and 117T use a different arrangement behind the jet.
Actually, they use the same arrangement. Same production line I think. I know I had to modify the jet on the 116T before I took it into the field, and I just checked a 117T and it has the same jet as well. Nice idea in theory but not so good in practice.

> BTW interesting use of TP
Oh, it's very versatile stuff. I have also used it for major surgical repairs - and I do mean major. It also make a fair water filter is properly supported, and with a bit of metho it is a wonderful fire starter.

Cheers

Roger B
(rogerb) - MLife

Locale: Here and there
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The New "Worlds lightest canister stove"? on 12/07/2012 12:48:03 MST Print View

Well it seems that you and I (both Aussies) are having our own conversation.

I have not read of any problems with the 116T and 117T, which you would expect given the availability of these burners over a extended period. It seems to me that you have had problems with the jets in the 116T/117T and in the Hornet. I would assume that the gas canisters are not the source, which then leads me to wonder if there are leftover dirt particles from the manufacturing process which result in the blockages? Thus my question is, under normal use, are the burners (listed above) suitable for extended unsupported hiking trips, without the need for modification?

My reason for asking is connected to my last extended trip where a gas stove failure occurred and may have resulted in aborting the trip if it had not been for the generosity of a fellow hiker.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The New "Worlds lightest canister stove"? on 12/07/2012 12:52:38 MST Print View

Do the jets get clogged only when canister is inverted?

Roger B
(rogerb) - MLife

Locale: Here and there
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The New "Worlds lightest canister stove"? on 12/07/2012 13:01:05 MST Print View

The video would suggest not, but Roger C may have more info.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
Au contraire Franco! on 12/07/2012 22:22:02 MST Print View

Try ESBIT in the Trail Designs Gram Cracker tablet holder in a Caldera Cone. Great combo.

THAT setup is the most efficient ESBIT stove I've ever found, even after years of experimenting with aluminum can "chimneys", homemade tab holders and windscreens.

I use about 30% less ESBIT fuel with my Ti Sidewinder stove and the matching 3 cup aluminum pot.

And yes, I do actually cook (veggies, spaghetti, Pad Thai, etc.) with ESBIT.

OK, OK Franco, I'll admit ESBIT does smell a bit and does leave residue on pot bottoms. But for the low weight of the fuel and stove I'll put up with it. (Sorta like a woman with attitude that is a fantastic lover.;o)

Edited by Danepacker on 12/07/2012 22:24:50 MST.

Franco Darioli
(Franco) - M

Locale: Melbourne
The New "Worlds lightest cannister stove"?" on 12/07/2012 23:19:12 MST Print View

well even I was able to get a boil using the Caldera Cone and the Gram Cracker with an Esbit tablet in spite of the fact that I didn't try all that hard.
But we can get 95% Ethanol here for just over $3 per liter , so why would I bother ?
Anyway back to the Fire Maple, the FMS 118 looks interesting for some winter outings.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re blockages on 12/08/2012 00:50:22 MST Print View

> Do the jets get clogged only when canister is inverted?
Well ... I have to say I have never (as far as I can remember) had a blockage when operating with the canister upright and stable.

But I have certainly had several different blockages with an inverted canister. I believe there have been two causes for me, although I do know of a common third one which applies to non-inverted operation as well.

1: Dirt in the canister. Not usually a problem with good brand canisters (ie from Western companies), but a Chinese canister which was co-branded with Primus was appalling! A very fine brown dust, in quantity!

2: Poor purity in the gas, leaving some complex paraffins there. The paraffins are dissolved in the butane/propane and would normally remain at the bottom of the canister. They don't boil off. But they do get to the needle valve when the canister is inverted, and can gum it up.

The Coleman PowerMax may be off the market now (sob!), but those canisters were RELIABLE.

The third method of getting a blockage is letting dirt get into the Lindal valve or into the base of the stove. I know this happens when people are just not aware of the need to be careful.

The guy in the video? Dunno. I would need to strip his stove down to see. But betcha the filter is dirty.

Cheers

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re blockages on 12/08/2012 07:50:07 MST Print View

I thought I remember you saying that Roger

It sort of takes away from a canister being so simple and reliable compared to other stoves

But, if you know how to clean your valve/filter maybe not so big a deal

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re blockages on 12/08/2012 13:14:19 MST Print View

> if you know how to clean your valve/filter maybe not so big a deal
See our article on Stove Maintenance
It is really pretty simple.

Cleaning the valve in the canister is dead simple. Just pop the valve open for a second - OUTSIDE of course. Blast any much out. If a persistent problem, do it upside down to get a puff of 'washing' liquid out.
What to use to poke the valve? Try the hook end of a Ti wire stake. That works wonderfully.

> It sort of takes away from a canister being so simple and reliable compared to other stoves
Well, not really. Keep stove and canister clean, always put the plastic cap back on the canister after use, and you might go for years without needing any maintenance. That's simple!

Cheers

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re blockages on 12/08/2012 13:16:57 MST Print View

You should probably know how to clean it out anyway, so if it gets clogged in the field you can fix it.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re blockages on 12/08/2012 13:37:14 MST Print View

There's this little pin that keeps the valve from coming out. I tried pushing it out with small nail (brad) and pliers or hammer but it's pretty solid.

Danger... about to break stove... better stop...

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re blockages on 12/08/2012 14:02:13 MST Print View

From your article "In some cases there is a tube-pin stopping the valve from being removed. To remove that in the field is very hard; you might want to remove it at home and leave it out. Come on, you are not going to keep opening the valve up in the field until it falls out of the stove, surely?"

I tried squeezing a bit of nail into the hole with pliers - got pretty good force on it - won't budge

Put stove back together and it still works - maybe I should quit before I break it : )

A D
(wentworth) - F
any updates? on 01/15/2013 21:33:01 MST Print View

I've ordered a 300T. Has anyone else used one on a trip since this thread was started?

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re blockages on 01/16/2013 02:59:46 MST Print View

It presses out fairly easily. I have done many. In fact, I always do it before taking any stove into the field so I can field strip the needle valve and clean it.

Select broken drill bit of the right size (ie slightly smaller in diameter), mount in chuck of drill press, place stove on a support of some sort which a hole in the middle, and press out.

I use a short off-cut of tent pole tubing as the support.
Do not have the drill bit too long as that might let it bow and break.
Press out from the side where the pin is recessed.
Nails are, I think, too soft for this. On the other hand, a miniature pin punch (if small enough) would be super.

Cheers
------------
Added later.
If you go to the first post in this thread you will see the stove. The shiny top of the pin is clearly visible. In this case, you push the pin out from underneath. The pin is not full length, so you can nock whatever you use as a push rod in pretty easily when the unit is upside down.

Edited by rcaffin on 01/16/2013 22:34:29 MST.

Stuart R
(Scunnered) - F

Locale: Scotland
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re blockages on 01/16/2013 09:57:13 MST Print View

As Roger said. Note however that the pin will usually press out more easily in one direction than the other - one end of the pin often has a serrated pattern pressed into it and this is the end you want to come out first. I don't have this stove so I can't tell you which end this is, so you will have to try yourself. If you can get the pin moved so 1/8" is protruding and this end is smooth, try pressing in the other direction.

C CHEN
(FIRE-MAPLE) - F
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The New "Worlds lightest canister stove"? on 01/17/2013 07:43:43 MST Print View

Tracksterman's latest video on the stove is interesting, is it a dud or is it a design problem?

Tracksterman Video

Edited by rogerb on 12/06/2012 12:40:25 MST.

-----------------------------------------------------------


The jet need to clean.
I think the jet was clogged.

Edited by FIRE-MAPLE on 01/17/2013 07:45:24 MST.