Hello

Browsing the Fire-Maple website i saw this:


The FMS-300T

They are known for the very light FMS-116T (48g) (AKA Monatauk Gnat), but...

The new FMS-300T weighs 41g!

Edited by prse on 10/10/2012 15:28:28 MDT.

Because its performance is HIGHLY wind affected the 'true' weight would have to be compensated with extra stove fuel unless you cooked in your tent.

Compared to?

MSR micro rocket?
Monatauk Gnat?
.....

Every time I see the phrase "World's Lightest Canister Stove", I translate it in my head to "World's Lightest Heavy Stove".

Doesn't that depend on trip length, group size etc.?

"Every time I see the phrase "World's Lightest Canister Stove", I translate it in my head to "World's Lightest Heavy Stove"."

Conveniently leaving out the word "canister."

So when you hear, "Worlds lightest tent" you actually hear, "Worlds heaviest tarp" ?

"So when you hear, "Worlds lightest tent" you actually hear, "Worlds heaviest tarp" ?"

LOL!

I have a snowpeak litemax that weighs 1.9oz. Not quite as light but pretty close. I use it as part of a 2 person cook system. I carry less fuel than alcohol stoves and my water is ready much faster and im eating sooner, which is worth the weight(wait?lol). The only downside is that we ocassionally have to carry a second cansiter, but the wife can carry that.

Every time I see the phrase "World's Lightest Canister Stove", I translate it in my head to "World's Lightest Heavy Stove".

x2356778800

Bringing the exact amount of fuel you need is also nice, that's very hard to do with canisters.

I've tried Esbit stoves.

They get bottom of pot dirty with some weird chemically stuff

I remember backpacking with someone. They had canister stove. It took forever to get water boiled with my Esbit. I probably should have used a bigger piece which would have helped.

I switched to canister after that.

I bet the BTUs per ounce for butane is bigger than Esbit, so if you do enough days canister will be lighter. Also, depending on how much water you boil per day.

That is where my thought went for my Long Trail hike.. 1 100g canister went the whole way. 16-18 boils and still has some left. equivalent of alcohol would have been heavier, slower, and more finicky. a few more ounces for a canister stove is worth the aggravation for sure.

Thanks for the heads up. I am a fan of canister stoves and like seeing their overall weight come down.

Interesting, I had just grabbed up a SnowPeak Ti at REI. But I think I prefer the design of the SnowPeak over this one.

Look up BPL contributor Tony Beasley if you want to see a canister stove that makes an alcohol stove look grossly overweight

Rub the bottom of your pot on the ground for 5-10 seconds. Sand, grass, whatever. That gets rid of the residue. I love Esbit. Trail designs GVP is a great kit.

"Rub the bottom of your pot on the ground for 5-10 seconds. Sand, grass, whatever. That gets rid of the residue."

Maybe. Maybe not. I've used three different brands and packages of Esbit fuel this summer, and I found each one to be different. With one, the black residue would rub off easily. With another, it was more persistent. With the third, it was tough. Part of that has to do with the height of the cook pot above the Esbit, the metal texture of the cook pot, and the air temperature. If you rub it off quickly, it will come off easier. If you let it harden, it is tougher. I got to where I would not even try to clean it off in the field. I would just throw it into a produce bag (to keep the black from rubbing off onto everything else) and clean it at home.

--B.G.--

Ah, I use an aluminum Fosters can and the traditional Esbit brand. I have never had an issue with it rubbing off. Good to know.

"Thanks for the heads up. I am a fan of canister stoves and like seeing their overall weight come down."

I'm glad it's appreciated Dena.

Edited by prse on 10/08/2012 15:20:15 MDT.

I have been field testing the FMS-300 for some time. I took it with me for our 2 month walk in Europe. It's a strange beast: it makes a noise like an XGK for some weird reason, and the airholes are tiny. To get full power you have to turn it up so it roars. But it does work well, and preliminary testing says it has low CO emission.

Cheers

It seems like the weight of the stove would be less important than the efficiency, if there's any difference between stoves.

If a stove weighed an ounce more but you needed a couple ounces less fuel, it would be better.

If, on the other hand, a stove weighed an ounce less and you also needed less fuel, it would be great.

"it makes a noise like an XGK for some weird reason"

That's a multiple purpose item. It doubles as an alarm clock.

--B.G.--

> Because its performance is HIGHLY wind affected
Not really, in my experience.

Cheers

It appears the Fire-Maple stove is a "torch" with that small diameter burner that does not even angle its flame outward. This creates a hot spot.

That's particularly bad for those with low heat radiant Ti pots who actually want to cook, as opposed to merely boil water. Ti pots need all the flame spread they can get from a backpacking stove.

I went with a Brunton Crux and gifted my lighter Vargo Jet-Ti stove B/C the Crux has a wider burner ring.

Edited by Danepacker on 10/08/2012 19:24:05 MDT.

> It appears the Fire-Maple stove is a "torch" with that small diameter burner that
> does not even angle its flame outward. This creates a hot spot.
That's the funny thing. The burner looks as though it should focus, but it seemed to spread out a fair bit under my Ti pot. It's very different from a conventional burner.

Cheers

"That is where my thought went for my Long Trail hike.. 1 100g canister went the whole way. 16-18 boils and still has some left. equivalent of alcohol would have been heavier, slower, and more finicky. a few more ounces for a canister stove is worth the aggravation for sure."

I did the Long Trail too, with my Esbit stove (admittedly the 3 oz version before I switched to the 0.3 oz titanium. Restocking every 4-5 days, which is necessary because of food, meant carrying a max of 70 g of fuel at any given time, usually less. My total stove+fuel kit, when restocking every 5th day, weighs 78.4 g on the first day and 8.4 g on the way out, which is significantly less than a canister stove could ever weigh, until they come up with a new kind of canister. Admittedly, if you're in a situation where you can't restock except every 16 refills, the Esbit option would weigh 232 g. However, at that point you've got over 30 pounds of food on your back, so you'd probably not notice.


Not to say that canister stoves don't have their place, which they do. I have one within arm's reach at the moment. It weighs much more than the 41 g of this new device.


I was mostly just making a wisecrack. And for the record, my interpretation of the phrase "World's Lightest Tent" is actually more like, "Extremely heavy poncho-tarp (without the poncho)".

Well I love my Caldera Cone but it it definitely is NOT the lightest canister stove...
Here is one reason why I don't like Esbit.. (others have their own...)
It smells and I am not particularly keen to breath formaldehyde or ammonia as I boil water.
(that could already be two reasons)
Another reason is that some actually cook so they prefer a burner that has variable heat output.
Yes you can use 1/2 a tablet or 2 tablets but it isn't the same.
as it stands that FMS 300T appears to be the lightest commercially available stove.
(the commercially available should be understood by the context...)

Nick, I resupplied 4 times in 18 days.. none of the places would have had esbit except maybe the EMS in Manch center. i don't like the idea of mail drops because plans change.

I can see where esbit would be great, i just haven't tried it yet. I am mostly just a fan of the light, boil, off. I cooked inside, outside, in shelters, on tables etc and never worried about it.

for now i like the pocket rocket.. gf got it for my bday for $10 at REI garage sale so it's easy, cheap and much lighter than the Whisperlight that sits very lonely in the bottom of the gear bin

Roger Caffin wrote: "I have been field testing the FMS-300 for some time..."

Very exciting Roger! Do you happen to have any information about when it will be ready for purchase?

Sounds like Roger isn't the only one impressed with the FMS-300.

has got a hold of one on November 27.: http://tracksterman.tumblr.com/

Edit: deleted - double post

Edited by prse on 11/29/2012 04:41:53 MST.

Ummm

Interesting... a titanium version of his FMS-118 Volcano Gas Stove will be a really interesting winter option

http://fire-maple.com/products_del.html?news_id=72&c_id=5&cate_id=8

The one time I cooked on a cannister stove, I was backpacking with a friend, using her stove, and my pot kept sliding off her stove and dumping water. I was not impressed. I was using a AGG 2 L pot, so more wide than tall. Her stove was an MSR cannister, so probably a Pocket Rocket. Are there particular stoves whose designs reduce this risk, or is this a problem for all of them?

I like the fact that the wind screen on the Caldera Cone holds my pot securely.

This can happen, and has happened to me. It helps if the stove is level, but that is not always possible. I have found 2 good solutions -

1) The Coleman Extreme pots have a grooved base - review here http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/reviews/display_reviews?forum_thread_id=62183&cat=Cookware%20-%20Other&cid=44

2) I modified the base of an AGG aluminium pot to create a rim - thread here

Edited by Scunnered on 11/29/2012 12:20:22 MST.

So how do I get one?

Diane,

Get a Jetboil system. Designed to avoid that problem. And worth every extra ounce for its reliability, efficiency, and versatility.

Richard

Reading the posts from tracksterman (november 27 + 30 2012)

I'm no longer interested in the FMS-300T - read and judge...

/Peter

Edited by prse on 12/03/2012 16:41:09 MST.

I believe the FMS-300 is currently available for sale. It's even on eBay.

I read what Tracksterman had to say about his stove. Dunno what he was doing wrong, as the one I have works very well. I took it to Europe for 2 months this year and never had any problems with it at all. It worked well.

Cheers

Hi Diane

> Her stove was an MSR cannister, so probably a Pocket Rocket. Are there particular
> stoves whose designs reduce this risk, or is this a problem for all of them?
Forgive me if I sound biased, but my personal opinion is that the Pocket Rocket is a really good stove to avoid! Any of the latest generation of stoves would be miles better. (eg ones from Snow Peak, Fire Maple, Kovea ...)

Cheers

@Caffin: And now it's interesting again :-)

Thanks

Tracksterman's latest video on the stove is interesting, is it a dud or is it a design problem?

Tracksterman Video


It is a slow download

Edited by rogerb on 12/06/2012 12:40:25 MST.

Tracksterman's video/test results are tainted, though. In the second lighting, he uses his left hand that time. Totally different conditions, man.

More seriously, it sure looks like something swells up and blocks the fuel delivery when that stovehead gets hot.

> Tracksterman's latest video on the stove is interesting, is it a dud or is it a
> design problem?
Dunno, but very interesting.

Observations:
The FMS stove worked at the start, with good power.
The canister does not seem to have frozen as the other stove worked fine near the end.
The FMS stove did not work later when it was replaced, so the problem was still in the stove.

From this I would say that the jet was getting blocked. Now the jets in these recent Fire Maple stoves are interesting, in that they have a sintered filter stuffed into a cavity in the base of the jet. This is to stop dirt from getting to the tiny jet hole. But there is no obvious way to clean the sintered filter if it collects a lot of dirt! I have had that happen.

What I have done, with great success, is to extract the little filter. It's a plug of tiny brass balls (I think) all sintered together somehow. I used a small stub drill slightly smaller than the rear hole in the jet body for this, but a BS1 centre drill might do fine. Not sure about a BS1 centre drill. The sintered plug comes out fairly easily.

Removing the sintered filter left a cavity in the back of the jet. So I put a *wee* bit of TP I there to act as a filter. The difference is that I can extract the bit of TP in the field and replace it very easily.

As I said before, I used one of these for months with no problems - but the filter in the jet had been modified. I have warned Fire Maple about the problem with the sintered filter, but I have yet to see whether they have taken any notice.

Cheers

Thanks Roger, that makes for interesting reading. I presume the 116T and 117T use a different arrangement behind the jet. BTW interesting use of TP : )

> I presume the 116T and 117T use a different arrangement behind the jet.
Actually, they use the same arrangement. Same production line I think. I know I had to modify the jet on the 116T before I took it into the field, and I just checked a 117T and it has the same jet as well. Nice idea in theory but not so good in practice.

> BTW interesting use of TP
Oh, it's very versatile stuff. I have also used it for major surgical repairs - and I do mean major. It also make a fair water filter is properly supported, and with a bit of metho it is a wonderful fire starter.

Cheers

Well it seems that you and I (both Aussies) are having our own conversation.

I have not read of any problems with the 116T and 117T, which you would expect given the availability of these burners over a extended period. It seems to me that you have had problems with the jets in the 116T/117T and in the Hornet. I would assume that the gas canisters are not the source, which then leads me to wonder if there are leftover dirt particles from the manufacturing process which result in the blockages? Thus my question is, under normal use, are the burners (listed above) suitable for extended unsupported hiking trips, without the need for modification?

My reason for asking is connected to my last extended trip where a gas stove failure occurred and may have resulted in aborting the trip if it had not been for the generosity of a fellow hiker.

Do the jets get clogged only when canister is inverted?

The video would suggest not, but Roger C may have more info.

Try ESBIT in the Trail Designs Gram Cracker tablet holder in a Caldera Cone. Great combo.

THAT setup is the most efficient ESBIT stove I've ever found, even after years of experimenting with aluminum can "chimneys", homemade tab holders and windscreens.

I use about 30% less ESBIT fuel with my Ti Sidewinder stove and the matching 3 cup aluminum pot.

And yes, I do actually cook (veggies, spaghetti, Pad Thai, etc.) with ESBIT.

OK, OK Franco, I'll admit ESBIT does smell a bit and does leave residue on pot bottoms. But for the low weight of the fuel and stove I'll put up with it. (Sorta like a woman with attitude that is a fantastic lover.;o)

Edited by Danepacker on 12/07/2012 22:24:50 MST.

well even I was able to get a boil using the Caldera Cone and the Gram Cracker with an Esbit tablet in spite of the fact that I didn't try all that hard.
But we can get 95% Ethanol here for just over $3 per liter , so why would I bother ?
Anyway back to the Fire Maple, the FMS 118 looks interesting for some winter outings.

> Do the jets get clogged only when canister is inverted?
Well ... I have to say I have never (as far as I can remember) had a blockage when operating with the canister upright and stable.

But I have certainly had several different blockages with an inverted canister. I believe there have been two causes for me, although I do know of a common third one which applies to non-inverted operation as well.

1: Dirt in the canister. Not usually a problem with good brand canisters (ie from Western companies), but a Chinese canister which was co-branded with Primus was appalling! A very fine brown dust, in quantity!

2: Poor purity in the gas, leaving some complex paraffins there. The paraffins are dissolved in the butane/propane and would normally remain at the bottom of the canister. They don't boil off. But they do get to the needle valve when the canister is inverted, and can gum it up.

The Coleman PowerMax may be off the market now (sob!), but those canisters were RELIABLE.

The third method of getting a blockage is letting dirt get into the Lindal valve or into the base of the stove. I know this happens when people are just not aware of the need to be careful.

The guy in the video? Dunno. I would need to strip his stove down to see. But betcha the filter is dirty.

Cheers

I thought I remember you saying that Roger

It sort of takes away from a canister being so simple and reliable compared to other stoves

But, if you know how to clean your valve/filter maybe not so big a deal

> if you know how to clean your valve/filter maybe not so big a deal
See our article on Stove Maintenance
It is really pretty simple.

Cleaning the valve in the canister is dead simple. Just pop the valve open for a second - OUTSIDE of course. Blast any much out. If a persistent problem, do it upside down to get a puff of 'washing' liquid out.
What to use to poke the valve? Try the hook end of a Ti wire stake. That works wonderfully.

> It sort of takes away from a canister being so simple and reliable compared to other stoves
Well, not really. Keep stove and canister clean, always put the plastic cap back on the canister after use, and you might go for years without needing any maintenance. That's simple!

Cheers

You should probably know how to clean it out anyway, so if it gets clogged in the field you can fix it.

There's this little pin that keeps the valve from coming out. I tried pushing it out with small nail (brad) and pliers or hammer but it's pretty solid.

Danger... about to break stove... better stop...

From your article "In some cases there is a tube-pin stopping the valve from being removed. To remove that in the field is very hard; you might want to remove it at home and leave it out. Come on, you are not going to keep opening the valve up in the field until it falls out of the stove, surely?"

I tried squeezing a bit of nail into the hole with pliers - got pretty good force on it - won't budge

Put stove back together and it still works - maybe I should quit before I break it : )

I've ordered a 300T. Has anyone else used one on a trip since this thread was started?

It presses out fairly easily. I have done many. In fact, I always do it before taking any stove into the field so I can field strip the needle valve and clean it.

Select broken drill bit of the right size (ie slightly smaller in diameter), mount in chuck of drill press, place stove on a support of some sort which a hole in the middle, and press out.

I use a short off-cut of tent pole tubing as the support.
Do not have the drill bit too long as that might let it bow and break.
Press out from the side where the pin is recessed.
Nails are, I think, too soft for this. On the other hand, a miniature pin punch (if small enough) would be super.

Cheers
------------
Added later.
If you go to the first post in this thread you will see the stove. The shiny top of the pin is clearly visible. In this case, you push the pin out from underneath. The pin is not full length, so you can nock whatever you use as a push rod in pretty easily when the unit is upside down.

Edited by rcaffin on 01/16/2013 22:34:29 MST.

As Roger said. Note however that the pin will usually press out more easily in one direction than the other - one end of the pin often has a serrated pattern pressed into it and this is the end you want to come out first. I don't have this stove so I can't tell you which end this is, so you will have to try yourself. If you can get the pin moved so 1/8" is protruding and this end is smooth, try pressing in the other direction.

Tracksterman's latest video on the stove is interesting, is it a dud or is it a design problem?

Tracksterman Video

Edited by rogerb on 12/06/2012 12:40:25 MST.

-----------------------------------------------------------


The jet need to clean.
I think the jet was clogged.

Edited by FIRE-MAPLE on 01/17/2013 07:45:24 MST.

Roger Caffin wrote: Forgive me if I sound biased, but my personal opinion is that the Pocket Rocket is a really good stove to avoid! Any of the latest generation of stoves would be miles better. (eg ones from Snow Peak, Fire Maple, Kovea ...)

Cheers

Tracksterman clearly has a dud. Other FMS-300T's (Roger's) appear to be working fine, but I do worry a bit about Chinese stove manufacturer's quality control in general.

When I see stoves from Kovea, Snow Peak, MSR, etc (possibly all of them actually made by Kovea), the fit, finish, and design are much more advanced, which inspires greater confidence in me.

Still, the Chinese are doing interesting things in terms of lightening stoves up and trying new designs, and for that I commend them.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

My pot slid off a Coleman Exponent F1 Ultralight once, but that was my own stupidity. I now have a windscreen attached to my pot, which aslo prevents it from sliding off.

I've been using my Pocket Rocket for a while.

Roger says the flame is too concentrated in the center. Now, in one way, it doesn't matter, it spreads out from there so it doesn't matter. I just boil water. Except, I simmer oatmeal for just a bit before I turn it off, and sometimes there's a burned spot at the bottom if I don't turn it down and stir it vigorously. But the Exponent was almost as bad. Next time I'll get a different stove.

The fact that it's old technology is good in a way. Proven. PR weighs 3 ounces. Other stoves weigh 1.5 or 2 ounces so that hardly matters. Efficiency is identical.

I just glanced at the new lighter weight Pocket Rocket and it appears to have the same burner that's concentrated in the center.

I was thinking in terms of pot stability and compactness as well as the durability of the pot supports. There are so many stoves that are SO much better than the PR.

In terms of efficiency, I don't think you're going to see a drastic difference unless you use something like a Jetboil.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Does anybody have a good source to buy the Fire Maple 300T? All the ebay ones come from China and I need mine by April 05.

If you can't find the fire maple 300T, their next lightest model the 116t aka monatauk gnat(1.69oz) is on sale $47.96 @ campsaver.

The snow peak lite max(1.9oz) is also on sale $50.96

Thanks I ordered the Gnat

That's a really good price on the Lite Max which is a much more compact stove than the Gnat and has really good pot stability.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

I've been having an issue with the hornet on a few trips. After screwing it to the canister (as tight as it will reasonably go) and lighting it, the flame sputters and grows low after about 30 seconds. I checked the thread and found that I was now able to screw it even tighter. Thermal expansion of the titanium or aluminium canister?
This allowed the stove to burn as normal for another 30 seconds or so before the flame dropped again.
I don't think it's a blockage, or it would surely be present every time I use the stove.

Hi AD

Don't screw the stove on too tight. You will just strip the thread on the stove.

Dying flame - that's not 'sputtering. That's a blockage in the jet.You need to remove the jet and clean it, carefully.
Read http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/essential_stove_maintenance.html

Cheers

thanks Roger.
If it were a blocked jet, why would the stove return to a normal flame on the next usage and then suffer the same problem?

I had one canister do that with pocket rocket.

Comes on fine. 30 seconds later gets low so I screw it tighter, then it's okay. Then 30 seconds later same thing. Then it works okay from then on.

Other canisters work just fine.

Must be some tolerance thing with lindal valves on different canisters and the pin on the pocket rocket.

When I remove the outer washer on the pocket rocket, then I can screw it tighter and there's no problem.

After reading Will's recent review I decided to order the Wasp. It was $58 (free shipping) and I ordered it on March 13 from a Hong Kong Ebay seller and received it March 25. That's sooner than expected and they threw in a free Fire Maple shorty titanium spoon. I just weighed it on my scale and it's exactly 45 grams as advertised. I did one burn on it with absolutely no issues.

My first impression was "WOW this thing is super tiny and light". Almost half the weight of my MSR Pocket Rocket (45g vs 84g) and much smaller. Pot stability was "as expected" for such a small 3-point contact stove. I do not think it is any worse or better than the Pocket Rocket's stability. The Wasp is shorter, which makes for a lower center of gravity. My next impression was "this thing sounds like a jet engine". It's louder than the Pocket Rocket on full blast. I was a bit worried that the low stove height could potentially warm and overheat the canister but no issues there. A few folks commented they are worried that it's made in China. I'm not. The Toshiba laptop that I'm typing on says "Made in China" as is probably 90% of what's in my house and most every other U.S. household.

I was perfectly happy with my Pocket Rocket but I think the Fire Maple is a keeper and could become my go to UL Canister stove. Only a long-term field test will tell if I go back to using my trusty Pocket Rocket.

Thanks for posting more pics of the Hornet (it's the Hornet, right, not the Wasp? Or ??) Looks tiny next to a PocketRocket (which is actually pretty big, but good contrast).

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

Purchased one of these from AliExpress which is frustratingly flawed. The tabs on the three armed ring, just below the burner, are all bent downward where they're supposed to make the vertical turn to hold the pivot to which the pot support arms are attached, completely screwing up the pot support geometry. As result, the pot supports contact the underside of the pot only at their innermost points; the serrated edges extending radially are all bent downward, and hence completely useless.

There's no way this was shipping damage, as the package arrived in good shape, and all three arms are bent--there's no force that could have bent them all, without also crushing the burner assembly

Amazingly cynical behavior on the part of the manufacturer, to ship something this defective.

It's too bad, because otherwise this looks like an excellent, or even an amazing, stove.

The only other potential glitch is that the underside of the block which houses the valve contacts the one canister I tried just about when the inner o-ring is being compressed, limiting further tightening. So if the distance from the top flange of the fuel canister to the inner o-ring seat at the bottom of its well is not precisely controlled, one could get an incomplete seal. On the other hand, if that parameter is well-controlled, the contact is probably a good conduction path for some heat from the burner to reach the canister.

Have managed to separate the damaged ring, and will attempt to re-flatten it, perhaps in a vice.

Does anyone have any suggestions for cold-working titanium?

I think I may have fixed it. Using some smooth-jawed pliers, I applied some CTFOOI (Crush the F..Out Of It) force to the horizontal plane of the pot-support flange assembly, and bent its wings back to flat, with the result that the pot support serrations are now all in the same plane. So maybe it was shipping damage after all, and titanium is just not all that hard to bend.

Yipes. That sounds pretty darned bad. I couldn't completely visualize what you were saying. Do you have any photos?

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

Realized I could interpose a stainless steel washer between the upper brass nut and the underside of the ring/flange pot support holder assembly, which would help keep it from ever being bent down again.

Used a stainless washer, nominally 7/16" with a .9" OD, in which I had to grind 3 small flats to let the supports swing down freely , ~ 1/16 thick, which added .1 oz but of course didn't affect the stove's wonderful packability.

Just fired it up, and had no problems bringing 2 cups of water to a boil in fairly short order, with no flagging in the flame, even without having it completely maxed out. Pot supports were cherry red, but that's one thing that titanium is very good for--retaining its strength when very hot.

Edited by swimjay on 04/04/2013 18:49:21 MDT.

Here's a photo of the stainless washer between the upper nut and the the re-flattened ring/flange with the three upwardly bent tabs, each of which carries a pot support. The ring/flange had been bent downward at each tab, causing the top/bearing-surfaces of the pot supports to lie out of plane.

A slight hassle to do the fix, but having had to take it apart, I now feel like I understand much better how the stove works.

Edited by swimjay on 04/04/2013 19:19:49 MDT.

> So maybe it was shipping damage after all, and titanium is just not all
> that hard to bend.

I would suspect shipping damage, like a very hard thump lengthwise.

No, some alloys of Ti are not that hard to bend. 6Al4V is almost impossible, but CP is easy enough. Given the stamping and bending the parts have, I would suspect CP myself.

Cheers

Thanks for the info re titanium alloys, Roger!

Another thing about this stove, that I don't recall if I've seen mentioned, is that it simmers like a champ! The flame is very controlled over its broad range, with no sputtering.

Re reliability and field maintenance: though it goes counter to everything we've learned at BPL school, these stoves are light enough and small enough that one could simply carry two. (On longer trips, of course).

Edited by swimjay on 04/05/2013 10:22:36 MDT.

> If it were a blocked jet, why would the stove return to a normal flame on the
> next usage and then suffer the same problem?

Common. It means that whatever is causing the blockage is not really jammed in place. It falls back, then gets blown up to the hole again. Most annoying! Strip and clean.

Note that some recent stoves have a sintered brass filter inside the jet. This is a stupid idea, and I have told FM so. If that gets blocked there is almost no way to clean it out! At home, drill (VERY CAREFULLY!) the plug of sinter out - use a bench drill and a vice, not a pistol drill. Replace with a tiny bit of TP - a tiny bit. If that gets blocked, remove and replace the TP. Do NOT jam a lot of TP into the cavity.

Cheers

Well, not to be a Luddite with respect to new technology, but I think I'll hold off on picking up a Hornet/FMS-300t until they get the jet blockage issue resolved. I don't have access to the tools to resolve something like that, and, well, it just seems like something that fundamental ought to be taken care of before the product is shipped.

HJ
Adventures In Stoving

For those of you who have pulled the trigger on one of these where is the most reliable place to buy one.

I've seen them on AliExpress for ~$44 and on Amazon for over 70$

Big difference in price, not sure why.

Any advice on where to purchase?

Try eBay too. I'd say in general buying direct from Chinese sellers is a lot cheaper. Import duties and taxes are not included in that however.

Purchased my FMS-300t from AliExpress. Shipping was reasonably quick (and free), given the distance involved. Item arrived damaged (see previous posts), but was able to fix it (mostly--one of the pot supports now pivots only with difficulty).

AliExpress has a dispute process, which I've initiated, more to communicate their need to use stronger shipping containers than to receive compensation (had to ask for at least .01 for dispute form to be sendable).

My guess is that AE represents a lot of firms willing to ship overseas, as an order clearing house, so there's some potential for chaos, but aside from shipping damage, process went smoothly. Will report on their response to the "dispute."

Just pulled the trigger with Aliexpress for $44. I'll report how the shipping goes. I ordered some titanium pots from China a few years back without any problems. Hopefully this works out too.

m

The only concern I have here is that sintered brass filter in the base of the jet. If you don't drill it out, it could get blocked, and there's no way to clear it in the field (well unless you brought some carburetor cleaner with you and maybe not even then).

So, unless you're prepared to do the necessary mods, I would not take the stove to the field just yet.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

Just wanted to chime in and saythat i bought one these off ebay. Not sure why really when i have plenty of other things to lose ounces on. 3 bucks shipping and got to canada in a couple of weeks no duties or taxes on arrival. I put iton a cannister just to test, lit it and evrything seemed fine although i find i have to screw it on tighter than my gigapower. I havent tested it with any of my pots yet. .

Edit previous comment removed. Turns out the cannister had problems on my gigapower as well. Tried a jetboil can everything fine. I think ill bring both on a trip in early may.

Edited by human on 04/13/2013 06:33:50 MDT.

So my stove arrived yesterday. 16 days from the date of order. I had requested original packaging and that a box be used to prevent damage. As you can see in the photos the shipper complied. For $44 I am please with the experience so far. Tested the stove briefly with no issues. Obviously it needs more robust testing in the field but it's a nicely made piece of gear. Roger if you have time I would love a picture of the location of the sintered brass ball filter that you drilled out. I could not easily locate this. My work has a machinist on staff and I would like to have him look at the possibility of drilling this out for me. It would help to have picture showing where and what needs drilling out.

Comparison with my old primus crux (early model, which at the time was very light)which is still working great except the piezzo lighter does not work reliably. If this new stove is reliable it will be its replacement

Edited by drown on 04/26/2013 22:00:52 MDT.

Hi all

As requested.

.
First remove burner as shown, by unlocking the lower nut. Then remove the jet with a spanner.

The filter is the plug of very tiny sintered brass balls in the left jet.
Hold the jet in a good vice in good drill press or mill, and carefully drill out the filter plug. A 2.5 mm bit would be fine. When you get nearly all the way through the plug it will usually break up, or grab on the drill bit. Extract it. Clean out the insdie with a cotton bud - nothing harder.

Replace the jet and tighten gently - a little beyond finger tight. This prevents leaks at the side.

CAUTION: do not poke the drill bit any further in, or you will have a jet with a 2.5 mm hole. This does not work very well.

Middle jet shows no filter plug. Right jet shows a tiny bit of TP stuffed in cavity as a filter. This works just fine and can be field serviced - provided you carry TP.

Cheers

Edited by rcaffin on 04/27/2013 04:21:50 MDT.

Excellent!!! Thank you very much.

So why would I want to buy a stove that requires this kind of modification before I take it out?

The mod makes it lighter! :)

Roger - did you try running this or any other FM stove with the filter removed from the jet and NO TP?

On my FMS-116T (Gnat) the sintered filter was loose so I took it out and tried it without. The stove did not work very well - the flame was lifting off quite badly. I concluded that the filter was causeing a pressure drop that was necessary for the given jet size. I pushed the filter back in firmly and it has been fine ever since (I did not think to try TP first).

cheers

Hi Stuart

Um ... really not sure, now you ask. So a brief diversion to the lab.

FMS-300T with .32 mm jet and no TP at all: OK, no lift-off.
FMS-116T with .32 mm jet and no TP at all: OK, no lift-off.
FMS-116T with .30 mm jet and no TP at all: OK, no lift-off.
Various other combos - no flame lift off either.
Tried with Campingaz butane/propane, MSR Isobutane, and Kovea butane/isobutane/propane.

So - dunno what was aflicting yours. Very hot day perhaps? Air temp at test 22 C.

Also tried with TP wadged in hard, and yes that does reduce the pressure a bit. Not a lot, but enough that one could experiment to get optimum tuning IF one was suffering cabin fever badly.

Cheers

Hot day? Here??? YMBJ

Strange. I think I'll leave it alone for now.
cheers

So why would I want to buy a stove that requires this kind of modification before I take it out?

"The important thing is to go in with one's eyes open, i.e. knowing that one will need to modify the stove before use."

The stove works without any modification, so I'm not sure I agree with that statement. Other than the one video posted is there any other evidence of malfunction? I plan on testing it as is through the summer. If needed I will drill it out but I'm not doing anything to it yet. We'll see what happens. I'll report back.

MG

Yes, it will work without modification, but you can't clear a jam in the field if one occurs. Sintered brass filters have had this type of problem for a long time. They're generally a bad idea. Same problem as occurred on some versions of the old Hank Roberts type stoves.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

The FMS-116T aka Monatak Gnat has the same filter and I haven't heard of any problems with blockages.

Well, maybe I'm overly cautious. It's just that I've been bit -- more than once -- by sintered brass filters. Useless idea in my opinion. What's the good in a filter that you can't clear in the field? Just leave the filter out and let the jet itself clog. A jet clog can be cleared in the field with a bit of wire, but a sintered brass filter typically requires tools and/or solvents if it clogs up, things in short supply in the field.

HJ
Adventures in Stoving

If the stove is used upright then the muck usually stays at the bottom of the canister. So the problem really only surfaces when you are running a remote with an inverted canister. But ... some of us do that sort of thing. See for example the Brunton Stove Stand article. There will be more on that theme soon.

Cheers

Roger, we are still eagerly awaiting...

Net experience with AliExpress has been very positive.

My first 300T from them arrived with some shipping damage, which I was able to fix myself, though it left one of the pot supports pivoting a bit stiffly, and not quite clearing the valve handle. (See post above, ~ 04/09). I emailed them, suggesting they might want to use a stronger shipping container, but that my stove was functional. They responded by offering to send another stove, which they have done. Can't ask for better service than that.

Also purchased a 116T, which seems also excellent, though different. It's slightly heavier, as noted in Roger's excellent article, and might be optimized for larger pots-- its pot supports spread farther-- and greater heat-- the flame seems slightly more coherent at high output than it does with the 300T. On the other hand, the 300T's flame seems wonderfully stable at low output, and I don't imagine a better simmering stove exists.

Thanks, Jim.

Good experience report (experience thus far of course).

HJ
Adventures in Stoving