idea: quilt / sleeping bag hybrid?
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Hamish McHamish
(El_Canyon) - M

Locale: USA
idea: quilt / sleeping bag hybrid? on 10/07/2012 10:38:53 MDT Print View

I like the way a sleeping bag blocks drafts and encloses the body well when it's cold, not just mild. I like a sleeping bag's real hood (for a couple reasons). Of course I also like a quilt's lighter weight and reduced bulk. I don't use a bivy, preferring a larger tarp instead.

What if you removed a large part of a sleeping bag's bottom and replaced it with a thin, light, windproof fabric like Momentum or something? You'd save some weight and bulk but retain a bag's more enclosing coverage.

If you have a bag you're willing to cut on, this might be a way to improve your base weight without buying a quilt.

I don't know anything about sewing. Is this a modification that's reasonable or just too complicated?

Sketch of the bottom of the sleeping bag; red area cut out and replaced with Momentum (or whatever):

diagram

Rich J
(PNWhiker) - F

Locale: Pacific NW
It's been done on 10/07/2012 10:55:18 MDT Print View

Someone (I can't recall who, but perhaps Big Agnes) produced a bag which had top and bottom with different ratings (e.g. +20 on top, +40 on bottom). So you could just flip the appropriate side up depending on the expected temperatures. However, if you have continuous baffles it's not needed since you can just move the down from the bottom of the bag to the top and effectively achieve your design.

Jeff LaVista
(LaVista) - F
big agnes on 10/07/2012 10:56:47 MDT Print View

This is how big agnes bags are setup, they even go one step further, the lower non insulated segment has a sleeping pad sleeve.

James Marco
(jamesdmarco) - MLife

Locale: Finger Lakes
idea: quilt / sleeping bag hybrid? on 10/07/2012 10:59:18 MDT Print View

Good thinking! But, I am afraid to say that thermorest has sort of beat you to the punch with that idea. Philip did a review on it here: http://sectionhiker.com/therm-a-rest-haven-sleeping-bag-first-look/. As has Big Agness.

Keep on thinking, that was a good thought!

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Big Agnes on 10/07/2012 10:59:25 MDT Print View

Big Agnes sleeping bags have a thin nylon sleeve on the underside of the bag that you slide your pad in. It holds it in place and honestly, for my colder weather bag (I have a 15 deg) it is by far the coziest, most comfortable, warmest sleep system I've ever used. It has all the pluses of a quilt (no weight on the bottom) combined with the pluses of a bag when it's cold (hood, draft collar, no drafts on the side). I love it and as much as I love my quilt for warmer temps, I just can't justify swapping out my BA.

Hamish McHamish
(El_Canyon) - M

Locale: USA
_ on 10/07/2012 11:06:10 MDT Print View

Haha, brilliant me, reinventing the wheel! Have to say though, those BA bags don't seem to have saved much weight, though their gear seems to be heavier to begin with.

I've got an older TNF Cat's Meow that I'd like to modify this way but I have no idea who could do the work. Plus if its really involved it may be best to just buy something purpose-made.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Big Agnes on 10/07/2012 11:14:35 MDT Print View

Okay, this is a nit, but the sleeve on the Agnes adds an un-necesary layer of fabric that adds a littleweight.

I made my own that has no un-necesary layer so it weighs a tiny bit less. I sleep directly on my mattress, but don't find any problem. An extra layer of fabric may be worse - you may slide around more?

The Thermarest Haven has a funky open bottom so you need a groundcloth - extra weight. But, I think that actually works pretty good. I think it was reviewed at backpackgeartest.org.

I would call it a quilt/bivy hybrid, not quilt/sleeping bag.

I think this alleviates the big problem with a quilt - that air can get in the sides.

On the other hand, there can be an open space on your sides that reduces warmth.

And you need to have a flap at the top, over your shoulders, to prevent air from blowing in/out there. I don't know what the Agnes does. With the Haven, it's like a sleeping bag at your shoulders so there aren;t any drafts.

Rich J
(PNWhiker) - F

Locale: Pacific NW
Another option on 10/07/2012 11:28:46 MDT Print View

"I think this alleviates the big problem with a quilt - that air can get in the sides."

Check out the zpacks bags. They are essentially a quilt which has a full zip. Also, they cinch around your neck. Oh, and they are super light - like all zpacks stuff.

John S.
(jshann) - F
Re: idea: quilt / sleeping bag hybrid? on 10/07/2012 12:38:43 MDT Print View

Big Agnes, Nunatak, Thermarest still sell the no-down-on-bottom sleeping bags. Others that used to included RAB, Gossamer Gear, Western Mountaineering. I have used a RAB Quantum Top Bag since about 2005.

Edited by jshann on 10/07/2012 12:46:24 MDT.

Lynn Tramper
(retropump) - F

Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
Re: Re: idea: quilt / sleeping bag hybrid? on 10/07/2012 15:23:11 MDT Print View

It's a great idea, and the only two bags I use most of the time are my WM POD 30 and WM POD 15. Perfect for me. But I guess the idea didn't take off very well, as WM discontinued this design :(

Hiking Malto
(gg-man) - F
Also a vapor barrier on 10/07/2012 15:32:09 MDT Print View

With the proper choice of farcical it could function as a vapor barrier. So that would be a vapor barrier bag, quilt and bevy all in one.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Big Agnes on 10/07/2012 15:36:34 MDT Print View

Yeah, they are heavier than they need to be, but dollar for ounce I can't justify (yet...give me a minute...). I actually like the extra fabric on top of the sleeping pad - I sleep so snugly that for me it's soooo worth the extra few ounces (again, give me a minute...). The sleeve means two layers of super thin nylon that when a full inflatable sleeping mat (which I already use) is slid in it forms a very stable surface. I actually look forward to hiking in the cold so I can justify carrying this extra weight. It is sooooo comfy........

I has a draft collar around the neck and a full hood (like a regular sleeping bag), as well as draft collars along the edges to fill in any pad gaps... so that's prolly where a lot of the extra ounces come from.

Again, it is in no way UL, but wow is it wonderful to sleep in ;)

Of course, in a few months I'm sure ill fall for one of Tim's amazing EE quilts.....but for now....

Franco Darioli
(Franco) - M

Locale: Melbourne
idea: quilt / sleeping bag hybrid? on 10/07/2012 16:17:30 MDT Print View

A sleeping bag without bottom insulation needs to have a way to secure it to the mat (a sleeve is the easiest fool proof way) because otherwise it would not work for side sleepers and folk that toss and turn.

john Tier
(Peter_pan) - M

Locale: Co-Owner Jacks 'R' Better, LLC, VA
Bag/quilt hybrid on 10/08/2012 13:54:18 MDT Print View

Franco...etal,

The JRB quilts with an available full length omni tape modification readily attach to the JRB Down To Earth Pad Converter (DTEPC) for the hybrid appoach cited..

Pan

Larry De La Briandais
(Hitech) - F

Locale: SF Bay Area
Re: idea: quilt / sleeping bag hybrid? on 10/08/2012 14:37:35 MDT Print View

"A sleeping bag without bottom insulation needs to have a way to secure it to the mat (a sleeve is the easiest fool proof way)"

That's all you need. One method not mentioned is using velcro to attach the quilt to the mat.

Jason G
(JasonG) - F

Locale: iceberg lake
bag on 10/08/2012 15:01:59 MDT Print View

http://www.nunatakusa.com/site07/other_bags/catabatic_sl.htm

http://www.trailspace.com/gear/gossamer-gear/sleeplight/

Franco Darioli
(Franco) - M

Locale: Melbourne
idea: quilt / sleeping bag hybrid? on 10/08/2012 15:21:53 MDT Print View

Pan,
"The JRB quilts with an available full length omni tape modification readily attach to the JRB Down To Earth Pad Converter (DTEPC) for the hybrid appoach cited.."

Yes I know... I named that combo..

Edited by Franco on 10/08/2012 15:23:10 MDT.

Daryl Daryl
(lyrad1) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
Re: idea: quilt / sleeping bag hybrid? on 10/08/2012 15:28:04 MDT Print View

James,

I've used something close to your concept on a couple of bags and it worked well.

Around 1970 I modified an REI bag by pulling/pushing all the down away from a 1 foot X 2.5 foot section of the bag's bottom. I then sewed the perimeter of this section so the down couldn't return. This didn't save any weight but it moved the down to the top of the bag where I wanted it. Here's a photo. I put some white box lids in the bag to show the approximate location of the evacuated down tubes. It is hard to see the stitching. The evacuated area approximates the red area in your image

here

here

Fifteen years ago or so I added a single layer zip-in piece to my FF Swallow Bag. The yellow portion goes on the ground and is similar to the red area in your image. This turned the Swallow Bag into a 2 person quilt for my wife and me.

here

I like your idea and it has worked well for me. A single layer on the bottom of the bag is also handy for cooling down. Just turn the bag over for awile so the uninsulated fabric piece is on top of you.

By the way, for comparison, I've never used bag to pad attachments of any kind. No problem for me.

Lynn Tramper
(retropump) - F

Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
Re: idea: quilt / sleeping bag hybrid? on 10/08/2012 16:23:41 MDT Print View

First thing I did with my WM PODs was to cut off some excess extra fabric and bungy cords (shaving 30g/an ounce), and add velcro tabs to the bags and my mats so that the connection to the pad was stable and draft proof. I suspect the original design of the WM POD's pad attachment was the reason they never took off.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: _ on 10/08/2012 16:30:23 MDT Print View

"I've got an older TNF Cat's Meow that I'd like to modify this way but I have no idea who could do the work."

I just talked with Rainy Pass repair shop up here in Seattle a couple days ago about exactly the same thing. They understood completely what I was after and said it would probably cost in the neighborhood of $50 to make the conversion. If you don't live in the area, and can't find someone in your locale, you might give them a call. They do excellent work and have a lot of experience with alterations.

1-888-747-7867

Hamish McHamish
(El_Canyon) - M

Locale: USA
_ on 10/08/2012 18:44:51 MDT Print View

Excellent, thank you Tom!

Raymond Estrella
(rayestrella) - MLife

Locale: Northern Minnesota
idea: quilt / sleeping bag hybrid? on 10/09/2012 04:49:20 MDT Print View

Something that hits much closer to your idea is the upcoming Navis from Therm-a-Rest. Damien wrote about it here:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=66917

I think it is going to be a neat bag and plan to look at one next spring.

John S.
(jshann) - F
Re: idea: quilt / sleeping bag hybrid? on 10/09/2012 16:50:30 MDT Print View

The Navis is still just bringing back the WM POD 30 probably, with better straps hopefully and maybe a little wider girth for layering that jacket. The first thing I'd do is cut off those straps and see what the weight is. Need to find out the fill weight.

Lynn Tramper
(retropump) - F

Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
Navis=Pod 30? on 10/09/2012 18:14:10 MDT Print View

Hard to compare, except in very basic concept. The POD 30 is 2oz lighter (3 oz lighter with excess straps and fabric removed), and a lot warmer. It is an honest 30 degree bag, without a jacket, and has a half zip which makes getting in and ventilating a lot easier. The POD 30 also has a very well thought-out square box construction, which means the down doesn't shift to the sides during use. However, I would be interested to see what the girth of the Navis is. It might be a good option for "over-sized" folks who don't wear a down jacket, but a 45 degree rating is not very spectacular IMHO. I do like the look of the pad attachment.

Paul McLaughlin
(paul) - MLife
do-it-yoursefl cat's meow conversion on 10/09/2012 22:24:00 MDT Print View

You could do an easy MYOG version of the conversion with your Cat, becuase it is synthetic. all you have to do is carefully cout out the desired area of the outer fabric on the bottom of the bag, and then cut out the insulation in that area and you are done. If you want it a little neater, you can stitch through the inner and outer layers of fabric where the cut edge is, but you don't really have to, as the polarguard insulation is stable enough that it will not escape. This will weigh some small fraction more than inserting a piece of M50 in there, but it would be very easy to do.

John Donewar
(Newton) - MLife

Locale: Southeastern Louisiana
Re: idea: quilt / sleeping bag hybrid? on 10/10/2012 06:36:37 MDT Print View

James,

I followed the link that you provided to Sectionhiker and liked what I saw.

The pictures at Sectionhiker mimic the exact way in which I use and "don" my top quilt.

I have an older +20* traditional mummy bag that suffers a little bit from being a little "overweight". It might be a great candidate for this modification. My quilt lacks a hood which requires me to wear some sort of insulation on my head at night. If I modify my old bag I could lose some unnecessary bag weight and gain a hood for those cold nights. Hmmmmmm. ;-)

Party On,

Newton

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: idea: quilt / sleeping bag hybrid? on 10/10/2012 06:52:35 MDT Print View

John. Whatever you do make sure it is machine washable.

Pete Staehling
(staehpj1) - F
One issue on 10/10/2012 07:47:11 MDT Print View

I like to zip my down bag open and use it like a quilt most of the time. Having sections without down eliminates that possibility. Fr that reason I prefer to have a fairly snugly cut bag that zips most of the way open and has down on all sides.

John S.
(jshann) - F
Re: One issue on 10/10/2012 07:54:09 MDT Print View

I have never needed a zipper. When it's warm I start with either no sleeping bag or the bag draped over me (mostly over torso). As I cool down, I eventually get in the bag and have never overheated that way, but then I would not call myself a "warm" sleeper at my 160 lb weight.

John S.
(jshann) - F
Re: Navis=Pod 30? on 10/10/2012 07:55:34 MDT Print View

Lynn, I agree...I jumped the gun in the comparison. I'll bet the thermarest won't be the quality of the POD 30, but may have better straps as you mentioned earlier.

John Donewar
(Newton) - MLife

Locale: Southeastern Louisiana
Re: Re: idea: quilt / sleeping bag hybrid? on 10/10/2012 08:24:01 MDT Print View

Ken,

For sure! L O L

Party On,

Newton