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Harrison Carpenter
(carpenh) - M

Locale: St. Vrain River Valley
Grommet/elastic cord on a silnylon floor? on 09/29/2012 09:44:20 MDT Print View

I got an idea this morning, when I was thinking of a way to secure my sleeping pad to my tent's silnylon floor:

1) secure a metal grommet into the floor at the tent's midpoint;

2) tie a length of elastic cord into the grommet (with a knot wide enough to not slip through the grommet, making the cord into a loop that, when stretched out, can be just large enough in diameter to clutch an inflatable pad into place.

Any thoughts?

I think this might keep the pad from sliding around on the floor, and would eliminate the "my silicone dots/lines collect dirt" complaints I've heard from people who use thick silicone sealant to cut down the slippery-ness of their silnylon floors. Plus, I think the elastic cord-- probably about 12-16" of it-- would add less weight to the tent than a glop of sealant. My fears are that the grommet would hurt the silnylon, making the floor unravel, and that its hole could become an inlet for moisture.

Steve C
(smit)

Locale: sierra nevada
hole in tent floor on 09/29/2012 10:17:35 MDT Print View

Most people go to great lengths to keep from getting a hole in the floor of their tent. This is a new concept.

Daryl Daryl
(lyrad1) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
Re: Grommet/elastic cord on a silnylon floor? on 09/29/2012 10:47:43 MDT Print View

I'd prefer to sew a nylon webbing loop to the floor rather than a grommet. I could then seam seal it on the outside (bottom) of the floor.

I would consider two loops (tether points), one on each side of the pad location. I think a single tether point would still allow for side to side movement of the loop/pad.

Harrison Carpenter
(carpenh) - M

Locale: St. Vrain River Valley
Hmmmm on 09/29/2012 11:11:11 MDT Print View

It occurred to me that sewing the loop into the floor made sense-- even though I always use a groundsheet, the grommet does seem antithetical...

I see using an elastic webbing for a sewn-in loop. And using two loops instead of one would make the pad more secure, wouldn't it? Perhaps if the webbing were sewn down with both ends separated by 12" or so-- that is, made more into clamps than loops-- it would reduce the risk of sideways sliding even further?

Edited by carpenh on 09/29/2012 11:14:31 MDT.

Daryl Daryl
(lyrad1) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
Clarification on 09/29/2012 11:30:30 MDT Print View

A-----------------------B

I was thinking of tether points at A and B.

Elastic running from A to B.

Distance from A to B equal to the width of your pad.

If the distance from A to B is less than the width of your pad (e.g. 12") it seems like the side to side movement would be greater than if A to B was = to the width of your pad.

A little trial and error experimenting, however, should clarify these theoretical ideas. I haven't tried any of this so my ideas might be full of hot air. The proof is in the doing, in my opinion.

Harrison Carpenter
(carpenh) - M

Locale: St. Vrain River Valley
Agreed on 09/29/2012 12:27:08 MDT Print View

The proof will be "in the doing." It looks to me like we have the same ideas, really... and I probably haven't been clear about mine. (This might be because I'm not sure of exactly what "tether" means.)

Following you, I see this:

A----------B

With the lines secured at both A and B.

Where I think we might be seeingnthings differently is in the lines' material. I've been thinking of 12" lines of elastic webbing, with each line's ends sewn onto the floor a few inches apart; when the pad inserted under the lines (in the tethers, under the clamps), the elastic would be stretched taut and the pad wouldn't slide. (At least, not much-- that's my hypothesis.)

Daryl Daryl
(lyrad1) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
Re: Agreed on 09/29/2012 12:58:09 MDT Print View

Replace the confusing term "tether points" in my postings with "tie points, "loops to which the elastic ends could be tied", "alternatives to the grommets", etc.

Harrison Carpenter
(carpenh) - M

Locale: St. Vrain River Valley
Yes on 09/29/2012 13:47:19 MDT Print View

OK, I think I get it now! And I think I also understand why you say the tethers/webbing lines would need to be 20". As elastic as they are, they can only stretch so much. My pad is 2.5" thick (and inflatable). If the tethers were 20", then they would need to stretch 5" in order to fit the pad-- that's not much, but probably enough to make the tethers taut... right?

Have you been thinking that side-to-side motion of the pad would be minimized by having the pad's sides flush against the tethers' connected edges/stitches?

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Grommet/elastic cord on a silnylon floor? on 09/29/2012 15:17:34 MDT Print View

I've never tried the idea, but something in me cringes at the thought of the damage it could do to the groundsheet. And, somehow, I doubt it would work very well anyhow.

I use silicone stripes, and I haven't had much problem with dirt etc as mentioned. But my groundsheet has sidewalls and I try to keep all dirt outside.

My 2c.
Cheers

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Grommet/elastic cord on a silnylon floor? on 09/29/2012 16:02:30 MDT Print View

I have diluted silicone splotches. I haven't noticed them attracting dirt, but I have black floor.

It's difficult enough to make floor waterproof without adding holes.

Harrison Carpenter
(carpenh) - M

Locale: St. Vrain River Valley
Re: on 09/29/2012 18:11:59 MDT Print View

Bear in mind, this is only an idea, not a plan. I knew when I posted it many people would think it's insanity. But I've read/heard many complaints about the silicone-stripes arrangement. It started me thinking of alternatives.

todd harper
(funnymoney) - MLife

Locale: Sunshine State
Re: Grommet/elastic cord on a silnylon floor? on 09/29/2012 19:00:38 MDT Print View

Based on my experience, allowing the silicone enough time to cure is the key to the sealant not picking up dirt.

When you think it's dry, let it cure a few more hours. A dry day is a help. Do it right and you'll have no problems.

Harrison Carpenter
(carpenh) - M

Locale: St. Vrain River Valley
OK... on 09/29/2012 19:39:20 MDT Print View

Alright then. If I am to go with the silicone stripes option, then 1) how wide should the stripes be, and 2) how necessary would it be to also coat my pad's underside?

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: OK... on 09/29/2012 19:58:29 MDT Print View

Let it cure for a few days - or a week would be good

I did maybe 20% of the surface area. Globs that were sort of like lines. Maybe 1 inch wide lines every 5 inches?

Then I used it a couple times and I haven't slid around enough to do any more.

Maybe I diluted the silicone 4:1 with mineral spirits. If I was diluting for water-proofing I'de use more mineral spirits.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: OK... on 09/29/2012 22:22:22 MDT Print View

Width: I squeeze silicone out to make a thread on the floor about 2-3 mm wide, then I smear that out with my finger. I guess it ends up about 10-15 mm wide. I don't spread the silicone out too thin.

I run the stripes on the floor across the tent, and I run thin stripes down the length of my mat. So the stripes are at right angles.

Cheers

James Marco
(jamesdmarco) - MLife

Locale: Finger Lakes
Grommet/elastic cord on a silnylon floor? on 09/30/2012 04:33:10 MDT Print View

I would skip the idea of using elastic or line to anchor the pad to the floor.

Rather than using stripes and dots, I would just dilute some silicone and paint the entire floor. It is far less messy when you are done and the entire floor picks ip some slip resistance, regardless of how the ground is. A thin coat will adhere pretty well and does not pick up a lot of dirt. All my tents are done like this, with the newest being about 6 years old. The Stephansons is especially thin and was starting to leak a bit from duff and stuff, so it also stopped the leaking. It only added about an ounce of weight, being highly diluted...I was using it to coat an old tarp and did the floor (after adding some more mineral spirits) as an after thought, so, I don't really know the concentration.

Harrison Carpenter
(carpenh) - M

Locale: St. Vrain River Valley
"Diluted" how? on 09/30/2012 07:59:37 MDT Print View

James, when you say "highly diluted," what do you mean? Did you use a specific ratio of silicone:spirits? Or would you recommend eyeballing it? (Like, "make it thinner than olive oil"?)

James Marco
(jamesdmarco) - MLife

Locale: Finger Lakes
Re: "Diluted" how? on 09/30/2012 08:42:33 MDT Print View

Well, I started with a 15:1 mix to do a tarp that was leaking due to some abraision. I use it under the sleeping bag in lean-to's. I was afraid I would not have enough to do the floor of the tent, so I added "some" mineral spirits. How much was "some", I don't know. I am guessing about 20:1? I did the bottom (under the tent) then turned it inside out and did inside. Then I turned it inside out, again, and hung it, being carefull to keep the floor and canopy seperated with some scraps from canoe building...I seem to remember two or three days it was out drying/airing out.

Thin "like water" maybe a little less...quite a bit thinner than olive oil. It seemed to cut the sliperiness a lot and sealed the minor leaks at the same time. At least it never leaked, again. My tents don't get a lot of use, only when I get the wife out. The past several years, the wife cannot get out hiking, so, I usually canoe with with her (planning on short portages.) It seemed to really straighten out the "slip to the bottom" you get on most hillocks. Some, of course, I find my feet pressing on the front door before the pad slips down.

Note that this was worked in. The fabric, more like PU coated light weight nylon, doesn't have ripstop "squares" in it so I just went up and down, then side-to-side. The mineral spirits seemed to dry almost as quickly as I was working. The bottom showed some streaks from the treatment but generally it was wiped down fairly evenly. One edge, where I had started,was pretty "dry" before I was started on the inside. I simply turned it inside out to do the other side. It dried for half an hour, then I reversed it again and hung it. The upper silnylon canopy didn't need doing till a couple years ago.

Harrison Carpenter
(carpenh) - M

Locale: St. Vrain River Valley
OK on 09/30/2012 09:05:29 MDT Print View

"Thin like water" makes sense...

I'm buying into the whole silicone strips idea now. Perhaps I will experiment with the elastic webbing at a different time. :-)

Edited by carpenh on 09/30/2012 11:47:32 MDT.