I curious if anyone has an opinion of the durability of cuban hybrids of the kind used by HMG and Zpacks and X-pac (DP-21). The cuban is thinner and lighter but if feels denser as well. Does anyone with experience with both have an opinion of which is more tear and abrasion resistnat?

NM now, I commented on the original cuben, not the hyrid.

Edited by heyyou on 09/26/2012 18:29:27 MDT.

I'll toss in an opinion since they're cheap.

IMO, the cuben/nylon hybrid fabric feels about as strong and durable as the nylon is (roughly 100-140 denier I'd guess) and then the cuben is mostly there for waterproofing. If I was going to abuse a pack, I'd take 210D Dyneema X nylon (or tougher) any day. The advantage of the cuben/nylon material is that it is mostly waterproof, while also being sufficiently durable to last for years.

I haven't used any varieties of Xpac, but my understanding is that it's a fairly tough (ie. heavier) nylon fabric. So it would be more durable. The main question should be how much durability do you want though. For normal use, the cuben/nylon hybrid is durable enough, so it may be better to take the waterproofing of the cuben over the additional bomber-ness of the Xpac, depending on your circumstances.

As background, my wife has a Windrider pack and I've used a few times. I certainly haven't it flogged it extensively. So treat my opinion accordingly.

Edited by dandydan on 09/26/2012 20:27:41 MDT.

Good insight. However, Xpac is waterproof. I think the threshold is 200 psi. It is more of a weight issue. You get added tear resistance from the dyneema in cuben. I can't comment on durability, having not used the hybrid.

I agree with Dan, for the most part.

Zpacks' hybrid is 50D nylon, HMG's is a bit heavier, maybe 100D, plus the 1.4 cuben inner.

VX-21 is 210D nylon plus a 50D nylon inner.

Tear resistance goes to the hybrid stuff. High density spectra is far better than the X threads in the x-pac. VX-21 seems more abrasion resistant in my use. Waterproofing is a wash, as both are excellent.

X-pac is half the price and about twice the weight. I think the cuben stuff is better for most applications, especially if you can get a heavier weight than Zpacks' offering. With that said, good luck finding a source. Both, IMO, are better than 210D Dyneema X, which is not so waterproof, while being slightly more tear resistant than VX-21 but not as abrasion resistant.

HMG Hybrid is 210d.

Thanks for clarifying that David. Way better than I thought it would be, based upon its weight.

I'm finding it really hard to believe the HMG hybrid fabric is comprised of 210D nylon on top of 1.4oz cuben. It sure doesn't give that impression so I had a closer look.

Compared side by side to my ULA Ohm (which uses 210D Dyneema X Nylon), the threads in the HMG fabric are far skinnier...I'd say the diameter at most half that of the regular strands in the 210D Dyneema X nylon fabric (ignoring the thicker ripstop strands). So if the strands in the HMG fabric really weigh the same per length (denier = g/9km), they must be some strange type of super dense nylon. I'm no fabric expert, but regular 210D dyneema X nylon is far thicker and more robust feeling than whatever nylon HMG is using. I'm not trying to knock the HMG fabric...it's good stuff. It just seems unbelievable to me that it's 210D. Do you have a source for this info David?

EDIT: We know HMG's cuben hybrid weighs 3.3oz/yd and the cuben portion of that is 1.4oz. That means the polyester portion is 1.9oz. There's no way that's 210D. Most likely 70-100.

Edited by dandydan on 02/03/2013 17:59:47 MST.