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William Chilton
(WilliamC3) - MLife

Locale: Antakya
Water resistant down now available at ZPacks on 09/20/2012 09:08:09 MDT Print View

ZPacks has just listed water resistant down as an option with their bags and quilts. 800 FP.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: Water resistant down now available at ZPacks on 09/20/2012 09:50:28 MDT Print View

If Joe has that means Gooses Feet and Enlightened will not be far behind.

Cheers

William Chilton
(WilliamC3) - MLife

Locale: Antakya
Re: Water resistant down now available at ZPacks on 09/20/2012 09:54:37 MDT Print View

Apparently, higher fill powers are also available to manufacturers, but only with a minimum order of $25,000.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: The Great Lakes Bay Region
Re: Re: Water resistant down now available at ZPacks on 09/20/2012 10:22:51 MDT Print View

I will order 50k's worth so ;-)

Michael Cheifetz
(mike_hefetz) - MLife

Locale: Israel
where is it from? on 09/20/2012 11:11:34 MDT Print View

"This down is washed with a water resistant treatment which makes the down hydrophobic" sounds like a wash in treatment...i wonder if its just like nikwax downproof...? or is it the nano coating stuff (which i assume entails more than just washing)

The lab report is interesting too (although test 3 with the laundry cycles seems to be incomplete...)

ps - has anyone got experience with downproof nikwax type?

Raymond Estrella
(rayestrella) - MLife

Locale: Northern Minnesota
Water resistant down now available at ZPacks on 09/20/2012 12:30:20 MDT Print View

Hmm, this is pretty sure to get confused with the DownTek and DriDown stuff. But it appears to just be down treated with a wash-in like the Nikwax mentioned before.

Maybe Joe can chime in with what it is and who makes it.

(Gilbert Goose made it, silly...)

Stephan Doyle
(StephanCal)
Re: Water resistant down now available at ZPacks on 09/20/2012 17:12:56 MDT Print View

I'm interested in where this is coming from as well. Might be DownTek, which means the floodgates are opening to cottage manufacturers. The big boys will be using it en masse come spring.

John Abela
(JohnAbela) - MLife
Re: Water resistant down now available at ZPacks on 10/04/2012 18:39:40 MDT Print View

Anybody have any further updates on this?

Given the nature of the outer material of these bags and the fact that many of us have found that 900 down suffers in high moisture areas (such as here in the Redwood forest where I live) the ability to go with the WRD is very tempting.

William Chilton
(WilliamC3) - MLife

Locale: Antakya
@ John on 10/06/2012 06:43:40 MDT Print View

I received my twin quilt with water resistant down yesterday. It's the 20 degree quilt in long, and I went with 25% overfill rather than 30, thinking that the WR down won't suffer as much loss of loss in humid conditions, the shared body heat will make it slightly warmer than the single, and partly to claw back a little of the increased weight with 800 fp down. Part of the decision to go with WR down was because I live in an area with hot, humid summers and mild damp winters. Mildew and mould are a problem, and I hope the water resistance means I can worry a bit less.
The quilt had been in transit for 4 days, but when I took it out it lofted immediately, even without shaking. Anybody worried that the treatment might affect the down's ability to loft can be reassured. My wife has a ZPacks 20 degree bag with the normal down, and I can't notice any difference.
Obviously, I can't comment on long-term durability, - or even how it copes in the field. I have a couple of trips coming up in the next 3 weeks, so I should be able to say a bit more after that.
I don't like to comment on gear that I haven't even used, but I guess no one has much experience with these quilts yet, either.

ZPacks Quilt

ZPack quilt 2

Edited by WilliamC3 on 10/06/2012 06:44:17 MDT.

Ron D
(dillonr) - MLife

Locale: Colorado
Water Resistent Down now available at Katabatic Gear on 11/10/2012 21:36:11 MST Print View

Katabatic Gear is now offering water resistant down as an option for their quilts.
Ron

Jason Elsworth
(jephoto) - M

Locale: New Zealand
Water resistant down now available at ZPacks on 11/11/2012 01:07:26 MST Print View

Zpacks are using Allied Feathers Resist-Down. How all these products really compare is probably difficult to say at the moment, as there are no std testing procedures and it is early days for all of them. DriDown claims to be superior to DownTek and Resist-Down haven't really given that much detail about their product (however it doesn't appear to be as good on first look).

Will be interesting to see how this all develops. I wonder what Katabatic gear is using?

I have just got a Zpacks 30 degree quilt with Resist-Down 800 fill, but wont be using it for a couple of weeks. The cut is really good. Not quite as roomy as my Enlightened Equipment quilt, but roomy enough and I prefer the std baffling to the Karo design.

Raymond Estrella
(rayestrella) - MLife

Locale: Northern Minnesota
Not the same on 11/11/2012 06:39:23 MST Print View

As I mentioned in another thread the Allied Feathers stuff is not the same as the DownTek or DriDown. Their claim is that they only retain "30% more loft than untreated down when wet".

A lot of people are going to be confused with this and the first time they have a problem will be yelling that none of them work.

My suggestion is to go to the down producer/manufacturer's site and read their testing info.

I wonder where Katabotic is sourcing theirs from? Aaron?

Edited by rayestrella on 11/11/2012 06:43:09 MST.

Jason Elsworth
(jephoto) - M

Locale: New Zealand
Water resistant down now available at ZPacks on 11/11/2012 17:42:03 MST Print View

As I mentioned in another thread the Allied Feathers stuff is not the same as the DownTek or DriDown.

Yes you've been very definitive on this :).

Their claim is that they only retain "30% more loft than untreated down when wet".

No- Their claim is that they only retain "30% more loft than untreated down when exposed to moisture". This could be referring to the effects of humidity and of moisture generated by the sleeper. DriDown does "claim" much higher performance in this area.

Resist down claims "And if it does get wet, it dries up to three times faster than untreated down." DriDown claims 33% faster drying times and both products describe their down as hydrophobic.

My suggestion is to go to the down producer/manufacturer's site and read their testing info.

You will be comparing one paragraph from Allied Feathers with two comprehensive marketing web sites from companies who are all in competition with each other. Also they are all using different testing protocols and testing labs. You can read all about it here.
http://www.snewsnet.com/cgi-bin/snews/Feathers_Fly_water_resistant_down_Outdoor_Retailer_081012.html

Finally I can't see any quantified test data on the DownTek site. Just a video of some down being mixed with water. Data may be out there somewhere?

I wonder where Katabotic is sourcing theirs from? Aaron?

Yes would be interesting to know.

Over time hopefully some sort of consensus will arise about how well these treatments work and which is the best. However, it seems too early to me to say anything definitive. DriDown seems to be the current leader and this is great if you currently want a 600 fill Sierra designs sleeping bag.

Raymond Estrella
(rayestrella) - MLife

Locale: Northern Minnesota
re on 11/11/2012 18:26:03 MST Print View

http://www.zpacks.com/quilts/water_resistant_down_report.pdf

Take a look here Jason. There is total failure at 190 minutes. I saw both the DryDown and DownTek go all day being constantly agitated. (Flipped)

I don't have a horse in this race at all. I am just afraid that people seeing this are going to think they are getting the "nano-treated" stuff.

Jason Elsworth
(jephoto) - M

Locale: New Zealand
Water resistant down now available at ZPacks on 11/13/2012 00:39:48 MST Print View

I don't have a horse in this race at all.

Shouldn't this be a goose race:). I have adopted a retired greyhound as a pet, so we could have a dog race:)

I did see the Zpacks report (I am surprised that they allowed Joe to put it all up on line). Hopefully over time it will al become a bit clearer about how all these products stack up.

I was just reading in TGO magazine that Berghaus are now using water resistant down in one of their jackets. So I soon think its going to be very widely used. It gives marketing departments some thing new to say about yet another down jacket or sleeping bag. Whether it is really a game changer remains to be seen.