I am making plans to have a go at a thru hike of the River to River trail in Shawnee National Forest. I am not exactly sure the dates yet but I am making a dry run at one of the sections in mid-October with plans for the full trip in Nov or early spring. Based on history I could have lows from 50 to 33 in October but seeing as how we are having lows down to 38 right now I can only guess it may get colder when I go.This is my first go at a long trail, in the past I have done maybe 10-15 milers. So I am erring on the side of caution for a few things. So here is my current list.

http://www.geargrams.com/list?id=9520

Some things of note. My sleeping bag is ungodly heavy but it is what I have and it was free. I think it will be too cold for my fleece top quilt and I will not have time to make up a DIY one, still researching materials and such. My pack cover doubles as a gear loft and keeps all the things in the exterior of my pack dry. The 3L platy is part of the gravity filter. I plan on getting a smaller bladder but since I have it already and I figured I would spend my cash elsewhere. The bug net may get left if the weather is cool enough, but there is not much weight there.

I sleep in a hammock so the long underwear will come in handy if it gets cold. I am hoping that the cap 2 and the Driclime jacket will be enough if it gets down into the upper 30s around camp. If not, I have to break out the Target puffy at 1.66 pounds lol. During the day I should be ok I think. Still working on the clothes, which is my main concern right now as I move towards winter.

Still working on my food list but I plan to only cook at night, probably something like Ramen or potatoes. During the day I will do beef jerky, some poptarts, belvita, something along those lines. Maybe some torillas and moose goo. Total mileage for the trip will be about 50-60 miles in about 3 maybe 4 days depending on how I can boogie on the trail. So far this weight is so much better than what I had before and the circuit is more comfortable than my previous pack. I am pleased with what I have now. So am I missing something and you think I will be alright with the clothes I have?

Your tent (hammock) weighs 3.95 pounds, consider the amount of time you spend in it compared to hauling it around.

The 3.95 pounds is the entire shelter, 10x12 tarp, ground sheet should I need to sleep on the ground as well as the hammock, bugnet and suspension. The tarp is 25 ounces. I am sure I could get a lighter one by moving to Cuben at large expense or getting a smaller tarp, but the coverage this tarp provides will work in both summer and winter conditions. Similar sized tarps have weight very near this one as well, Jacks R Better 10x11 is 19 oz for example. Part of the weight comes from the self-tensioning guylines as they have shock cord in them. When I made the investment I decided to get the lightest one I could find that would meet the coverage that I wanted and that I could afford. I am still looking at lighter options for the hammock but this one provides enough room for my frame to sleep comfortably.

I added up your shelter/ sleep arrangement and you are at about 9.5 pounds!

There is nothing okay with that.

My advice, ditch the hammock and use the tarp for weather protection. Get a piece of tyvek for a groundsheet and a 9oz Ridgerest for a sleeping pad (both can be bought for about $30).

Come to think of it your 25.55oz tarp is pretty heavy, get anything else besides that, like a poncho tarp.


There is no reason why your shelter should weigh just as much as my whole pack weight + clothing.

Take a look at mine: http://www.geargrams.com/list?id=8993

Edited by bubonicplay on 09/17/2012 19:10:12 MDT.

Since you said your specific concern is clothing I will address that first and please feel free to cherry pick what I have to say; and sorry in advance for the wall of text ; )
*You are packing a LS baselayer shirt, you can ditch the short sleeve, in 50's - 30's it won't be warm enough to justify it. You can sleep in the same shirt you hike in.
*I noticed you don't have rain pants, in those temps I wouldn't wanna be without them.
*Your dri-ducks rain jacket and windshirt combined weigh more than most breathable hardshells which can double duty as rain gear and a wind shirt.
*I see you have a buff and a beanie, you may wanna consider just using a balaclava. *I wouldn't want to be stuck at camp in the 30's without a puffy layer, a fleece and a windshirt would leave me cold but you may run warmer than I do.


Now a few other thoughts since I am rambling, you could drop some weight by dropping a few xtra items which seem redundant or unnecessary.
*you have a pack liner, why do you have several dry sacks and a pack cover.
*You have fuel syringe listed, ditch that and grab a disposable child size medicine measuring cup, weighs less than .1 ounce.
*I personally don't use a cozy, but some people like them, you could prob do without.
*you have a 3L bladder and 2 smaller bottles, you could easily get by with the bladder and 1 bottle.
*I see coffee filters listed in your filter kit, not sure what that is for if you are carrying a filter system.
*I see you have a compass but don't see a map; I wouldn't trust a GPS unit exclusively.
*Why do you have 2 bandanas, I would drop 1, you already have a separate washrag.
*I would drop the sit pad.
*You have a polycryo ground sheet with stuff sack listed as 3.45 ounces, unless that ground cloth is big enough for a 8 person tent you should only have about 1.6oz of the stuff, fold it up and sick it in a pocket, it doesn't need a stuff sack.
*I would ditch the heat sheet.
*3.55 ounces is ALOT of DEET, repackage in a mini bottle and bring 1 ounce.
*That p00p kit could prob loose 2-3 ounces for the length of a trip you are talking about.
*I would prob also go with a smaller knife, like a Swiss army classic.
Those changes would lighten your load by about 31 ounces give or take.

My personal sleeping preferance is to be in a hammock. That is just me, if I had the option I would hammock at home as well. I find it more comfortable than my bed and certainly better than a ridgerest on the ground. But once again that is just me. I know that with this decsion comes a weight penalty in insualtion and the tarp. A tarp like the Poncho Tarp is quite nice but will not over the hammock. Which is why I got the one I did after doing some searching. It will cover me in both summer and winter, allowing the ends to close up like tent doors. I have yet to test it all in the winter but I am looking forward to that.

Mike, the temps will have lows in a range for 50-30 based on wunderground's historic info. The average temp is 75 high to 47 low which is why I had the short sleeve shirt. I figured I would be too hot hiking in the day with the lightweight long sleeve. I would like to get my hands on a nice merino long sleeve I just have not gotten one yet.

Do you have a recommendation for a hardshell? I have been baffled by the many arrangements of layers presented on this site. Some advocate windshirts and some do not. I got that Driclime as a gift late in the season last year to really try it out in cooler weather. I was not sure if the combination of the lightweight thermal, Capiliena 2 and the Driclime, which has a thin lining, would be enough to stay warm down to that low of a temp. Might have to break out the puffy and leave the Cap and Driclime at home.

Good call on the fuel syringe, I had not thought of the small medicine cup. Swapped that out saving .2 oucnes lol. As far as the cozy, i use that to rehydrate my meals. If I was totally cookless I could drip it but it works. I have maps to add to the list I just have not printed them all up yet. I plan on trying to repackage some of the other things as well that you mentioned.

I actually hike in a LS all year long, as long as it is breathable and light in color you don't overheat and it helps with the bugs, particularly when treated with permethrin. Merino is nice, but I actually prefer synthetic.

As far as a hard-shell, cost wise you may wanna look at the Marmot precip or Golite Tumalo or a similar knock off, you can find em on sale for under $100. Or you can get something like the OR Helium II and save a few ounces with the loss of extra features like pit zips. The lightest and cheapest way to go is prob the driducks, but I find their lack of durability too much of a liability since I hike off trail allot.

If you are uncertain what temps your clothing system will get you down to, try em out close to home before hand. A multiday hike is not the best place to find out your insulation is not up for the task at hand. I can use a R2 with a hard-shell down to the low 50's very comfortably, but below that sitting in camp I get chilled.

I avoid having to use a cozy by tossing my freezer bag into my cook pot (after it is taken off my stove!), which also makes it easier to eat out of. After 20 mins my food is still plenty hot that way, but like I said some people love their cozies.

Windshirts have pro's and cons, as you noticed, there are many opinions about them to be found on BPL.

The Dryclime is essentially a windshirt with a fixed baselayer. It think that for the conditions you were describing it is too warm because of that. Imagine hiking in mild weather in a baselayer, the wind picks up and the sun goes away, you add the Dryclime, now you have two baselayers and a windlayer, probably too hot.
If you are bringing a windshirt, bring a plain one.

Unless it's 80+, you can hike in a longsleeve as easily as in a short sleeve. Just push p the sleeves. A zipneck is nice to vent when it's warm and cover the neck in cool temps.

So:
Instead of 1 shortsleeve, 2 longsleeves and a driclime, I would advocate just one longsleeve and a unlined windshirt.

I see two bandanas and a Buff, don't the serve the same function? Just bring the Buff.

I do not see any insulation layers, no fleece or puffy? Most people would want those for use at those temps, I assume there is a reasonable chance of rain? Light rainpants might be very worthwhile in those temps. It get's dark early that time of year, so it will be cold and dark when you stop to camp.

If you have a groundsheet, what is the spaceblanket for?

Edited by Tjaard on 09/19/2012 11:24:18 MDT.

I thought the Cap 2 would work as a bit of insulation along with the Driclime. I guess I am underestimating the warmth of the Cap 2. Since I have the driducks I will bring the jacket along but if I drop the Cap 2 and the Driclime what should I be replacing it with? I have a champion puffy jacket, it is heavy but I have it so I would rather spend some cash on something to replace the cap 2 and driclime.

I normally have one bandana on my head and one for washing myself. I guess on my next day hike I will try the buff on the head and see how that works out. I have found myself going hatless as of late and just running the bandana.

The heat sheet was back up insulation for the hammock when I had the fleece top quilt. Since I have the heavy bag I can pull that out.

Rain pants I have the dri ducks that came with the set, they are 4.45 oz. According to wunderground it was sunny 58% of the days on the historical chart, hope I am in the 58% lol.

You said:
"I thought the Cap 2 would work as a bit of insulation along with the Driclime."
It certainly will, but at 19 oz, that's real heavy for insulation! and not that warm.

"If I drop the Cap 2 and the Driclime what should I be replacing it with? I have a champion puffy jacket, it is heavy, but I have it so I would rather spend some cash on something to replace the cap 2 and driclime."

3 options(in no particular order):

1: A fleece pullover will be only about 15 oz and be a bit warmer if worn under your rain jacket, and still save you ~6 oz! Have you weighed your fleece jackets and vests?

2: If you want to spend money, a down jacket is warmer than the cap+driclime:
Cheap example: $89 (with coupon code: SAVE50): Stoic Hadron Down, ~9 oz(XL?), warmer than: Driclime+Cap2+beanie, be warmer, save 11 oz!

3: How warm is the puffy? Even if it is 26.6 oz, it will be MUCH warmer, perhaps enough to bring a lighter sleepingbag.

Since you have lightweight rainpants, and you mention there is a high chance of rain, it might be wise to bring those. Hiking without rainpaints is great in warm weather, but you are talking about October. If a storm moves in it will likely be cold and windy as well as wet. On the other hand, you do a have a large tarp, so you can cook and hang out under there protected from the rain.

Edited by Tjaard on 09/19/2012 13:03:50 MDT.

I have not weighed any of my fleeces. I suspect they may be heavy but perhaps lighter than the cap 2 and driclime. I will have to check that out. I will also look into the Stoic you posted up. Seems a pretty good deal. Certainly lighter than my 20 buck Target special, although that jacket is very warm, shame it is so heavy. Although is compresses down pretty far. If I had a lighter sleeping bag I would take it but I don't think with the clothes my diy fleece top quilt will be enough. I plan on researching which materials I need to make up a a decent top quilt. My underquilt came out pretty good so I figure the top quilt can't be too hard.

For a DIY top quilt I would look at using Climashield APEX. Fairly easy construction and inexpensive compared to making a down TQ. Plenty of writeups on this site.

If I were you, in those temps, I would take a single LS baselayer, a puffy, a windshirt, and a rain jacket. Your basically hiking in the worst possible type of weather...just above freezing and wet. Costco also has some down jackets now but the deals on the Stoic down options is a better value (just a bit more expensive for a more versatile/quality piece). BC.com also has their Stoic Wraith windshirt for just over $32 right now. If you go with their shirt, be sure to size up. The fabric has absolutely zero stretch so you can't really "squeeze" into a slightly small size.

The wet potential does make carrying a cheap target fleece vest somewhat attractive, but not necessary if you don't dawdle too much.

I'd dump the bug net. You won't have ticks in a hammock really, and mosquitoes should be dormant at those cool night temps. If you avoid camping near water and find a place with a nice breeze you should be nearly completely bug free at that time of year in So. Ill. Saves you 1.5 lbs.