If you don't like guns and are not contributing, dont bother responding. This item is worth mentioning because it is extremely light weight at around 1.5lbs. It also has a 21 round capacity and fires the 5.7 x28mm bullet-a variety of rounds are available. This gun fires a rifle bullet at near rifle speeds, since the bullet only weighs around 40g it acellerates the bullet to near rifle speeds to make up for the lack of weight with penetration. It is very flat shooting and is known to reach out to 100 yards with an inch or less of drop. It is pricey, but probably a good choice for hikers who wish to carry.

Edited by isaac.mouser on 09/03/2012 09:07:23 MDT.

It would be okay for varmints and small game, if that was desired.

For personal protection, it's much lower on the list. The round was designed for full-auto submachine gun use, not one-round hits. It's not much of a stopper.
You could do as well with any .22 magnum, which is basically all it is.

Definitely a lot better than nothing, but not my first choice in defensive hardware. Nice quality gun though, and would do the job.

I think I'd prefer a Pac Lite ultralight upper for the Ruger .22 pistol instead, or the Cricket .22 rifle with the Ruta Locura carbon fiber kit on it.
Good for procuring small game in the wild for food, and enough of a deterrent for defense if that was ever needed.

Edited by towaly on 09/03/2012 09:47:37 MDT.

How much does it cost?

The cheapest i've ever seen it is $799, the average is $899-$900.

For self-defense, a Keltec PF-9 weighs 12.7 oz and shoots 9mm. That's as light as you can get for something with stopping power. It usually runs for $300-350.

For game, I agree, a .22LR would be more practical.

My brother shot the five seven, he says it's a really cool gun to shoot, though.

Edited by DocWilly77 on 09/03/2012 11:23:23 MDT.

self defense requires a big bullet, with stopping power, that makes a big wound.
accuracy outside of about 25 ft is also irrelevant

I dont know much of anything about guns, but am thinking about taking some classes and learning all i can about about concealed carrying. Could someone explain to me why stopping power is so important? I know that if your in a position that your actually shooting at someone, your shooting to kill. But it the real world, isnt the deterant of having a gun pointed at you and then being shot, even though it may not be a critical wound, enough to stop most human threats from advancing? Just wondering what the stats on these types of occasions are?

No, a gun is NOT a deterrent to some.

Especially perpetrators on drugs, with lots at stake, or maybe just hyped up anyway.

Small caliber bullets at moderate velocities dont do squat immediately, unless hit vital systems . Your life may depend on stopping an assailant NOW, with one shot.

You can shoot a 5 lb rabbit with a .22, and the bullet can pass thru it, even a lowly rabbit can still run away. It will die, but not till it runs off and hides.

Edited by livingontheroad on 09/03/2012 14:02:52 MDT.

not a big gun guru...but if stopping power is what you are after you prob also want a high pressure hollow point (not sure who does them now but stuff like +p+ hydrashok or like the old black talons or whatnot)

so i would consider a gun slightly heavier (glock26 maybe) that can handle it

YMMV

North American Arms sells ~5 oz. .22 cal revolvers.

Edited by jshann on 09/03/2012 17:12:26 MDT.

That is very light. It's an odd round, though. Weird ammo tends to have availability issues. Here's a simple test: can you buy it at Big 5, or in the sporting goods store in Lone Pine, California?

Either way, for outback use I think such a small round isn't valuable for protection (see "stopping power" discussion above, also known as "whack") and the short barrel isn't useful for accuracy, at all. It means nothing that the ammo will go 100 yards at speed (a .22LR is accurate to the size of a dime at 100 yards) when the barrel is that short.

If one needs to hunt/survive, the Henry (nee Armalite) .22LR Survival Rifle is 2.5lb, waterproof when broken down and is pretty easy to accurize. If one needs stopping power to take on wolves, escaped Presa Canarias or domestic terrorists, go for diameter on them bullets.

For all around use, I would agree with a .22.

For ultralight concealed carry/personal defense, you may want a revolver over a semiauto pistol. Greater reliability, simplicity, no magazines, etc.

Perhaps a Smith & Wesson 342PD. From a recent review: "...the lightest of the Centennial series, weighing a feathery 10.8 ounces. Smith & Wesson has pioneered the use of titanium alloys in its revolvers, resulting in weapons that are much easier to carry concealed, without sacrificing strength. Titanium, when compared to steel, is lighter, tougher, and absolutely rust-proof. The 342PD is over four ounces lighter than the aluminum-frame/steel cylinder 442, and three-quarters of a pound lighter than the stainless steel model 640. In a pocket gun, every ounce counts, and the 342PD is the lightest concealed-hammer .38 Special revolver you can buy. Only the S&W 337PD exposed-hammer Chief’s Special is lighter, by one-tenth of an ounce."

Plus pepper spray and a knife...

I'm a gun person of the first order, but I can't really conceive of a circumstance that would prompt me to carry that hiking or backpacking.

But the comments about it's effectiveness as a "stopper" are mildly amusing. Nidal Hasan killed 13 people and wounded 29 others at Ft Hood with this gun and cartridge.

And as to the question about guns being a deterrent – they deter crime about a thousand times for every circumstance they are actually used. But, one shouldn’t carry a gun without being prepared and proficient in its use. Some people, and MOST predator animal species, don’t bluff real well.

Diego,

I suggest you visit glocktalk forums. It has a great sub-forum dedicated to concealed carry with many knowledgeable contributors including police officers.

But to make a quick follow up to your post, stopping power is absolutely necessary because if you have to use a firearm lawfully for the purpose of self defence, you must be in immediate danger of death or physical harm. Therefore, you will unholster your weapon with the intent to immediately discharge it to the assailant's centre of mass - the heart cavity area. You want the bad guy drop before he can reach to you even while (s)he is wounded, and possibly deliver a fatal stab. This is a tough thing to get, and once you understand this point, it will help you make up your mind whether carrying a firearm for self defence is something you are mentally prepared to do.

Pulling a gun out without an immediate intent to use it in hopes to deter an attack will probably, in most jurisdictions, fall into the category of unlawful brandishing of a weapon.

Kind regards,
Gregg

If I were to carry (can't in Canada) it would be a Glock 29SF. Very light and small for what it is (24 oz) - it fires the 10mm round. One decently placed shot of the higher-grain ammo will drop a grizzly if need be. I know this is a bit weird, but as this is BPL, I would prefer to think of such an item as being multi-use (for both human and large animal predators).

I know bear-spray is a much better option most of the time (it's what I actually carry, anyway). But a 29SF is the lightest thing going that could get you out the other side of any conceivable attack by any conceivable land animal or human on earth, and then another one, and then another one.

Edited by dasbin on 09/04/2012 15:11:14 MDT.

People often confuse bullet diameter with "stopping power," but in this case, the FN 5.7 x 28mm is far more powerful than a rim-fire .22 magnum. Developed to meet a NATO requirement for a replacement to the 9 x 19mm pistol/SMG round, the FN 5.7 has been proven in testing to be capable of penetrating body armor, and pistols chambered for this caliber are used by law enforcement agencies and military units throughout the world.

Any doubt as to the 5.7's human-killing potential was probably dispelled by the massacre at Fort Hood. Major Nidal Malik Hasan used a 5.7 pistol to kill 13 and wound a further 29.

"For personal protection, it's much lower on the list. The round was designed for full-auto submachine gun use, not one-round hits. It's not much of a stopper."

Tell that to the victims of MAJ Hasan.

A few criteria to consider. Make your own conclusions.

For defensive stopping power:
You want to inflict the maximum damage in as few bullets as possible. Consider hollow points.

This is done (generally) with the highest caliber allowed in your area, such as .45acp, or 357 magnum.

However, to be effective, it must be a caliber that the shooter has full mastery and practice. A highly lethal caliber bullet is useless in the hands of a person who cannot control it.

Example 1): if an 357 magnum revolver hurts your wrist, flies out of your hand, and the shots are scattered, consider a lower caliber such as 38+P. Keep going lower in caliber until you can fully control it and regularly hit bullseye at 15 ft.

Example 2): a humble .22 that hits the threat target in the center mass, is obviously more effective than a hand cannon that misses every shot. Remember the Divine Intervention scene in Pulp Fiction? The shooter had a hand cannon but no experience handling it, thus missing every shot.

Find the biggest caliber that creates stopping power, but you must control the beast.

Next criteria is gun weight. For defensive carry lightweight, it often ends up being a snub nose short barrel revolver or pistol. Ruger LCR or LCP. Glock also has a respectable line.

Then next criteria item is the ammo capacity of the gun, the legality of max capacity in your area, and how much more ammo you need to carry, and how fast you need to reload.

Each person can assess their risk situation.
Example: animal threat, such as a Pack of 5 wolves, 3 hungry bears (2 cubs 1 mama bear), 2 very bad humans, or 1 moose in mating season. All those are rare but plausible scenarios in certain areas.

Based on your skill comfort with your weapon, and your caliber, what is the maximum number of consecutive shots you need to neutralize a threat.

How fast are you reloading under stress, adrenalin, panic, etc?

From my experience, I expect to need no more than 5 rounds accurately placed to neutralize a threat. The rounds that I am comfortable delivering are high caliber, hollow points, but that is a result of much practice to master the skill.

So to reduce weight, be proficient at the highest caliber you can master, then you will not need to carry additional ammo.

The FN is certainly an interesting model, and I'd done some research on it a while back. The question of stopping power has certainly been debated.

The pros are largely:
1. Relatively light (617g, add another 127g for a 20 round magazine.)
2. Very low muzzle flip / recoil
3. Decent penetration with tumbling (Some examples here, scroll down for the pork shoulder.)
4. Capacity (see item 1)

Cons:
1. Cost may be high for some. But if you're buying Patagonia/Arc'teryx?
2. Availability of ammunition.
3. The really fun ammo is not available to civilians.

Armchair assessment (emphasis on the "armchair"):
Those who've shot it are usually very impressed with the accuracy and low muzzle flip. If you're engaging multiple targets at longer distances, this and the magazine capacity will be a very useful thing. (It will also be less tiring.)

In a backpacking context, using Rodger's examples, it would probably be very effective. The large magazine capacity and accuracy count very much in its favor. The Pulp Fiction reference is quite apt, I think.

I would never use this FN as a defensive firearm unless I knew I would be defending myself against assailants wearing kevlar vests. But then, if this is your prospect, you should be changing your life. Over-penetration is a huge concern. Defensive round should create a large temporary cavity as it enters a body, and then fragment creating collateral wounds that bleed profusely causing the host to drop from rapid change in blood pressure and shock. That round MUST stay inside of the body it enters lest it hits a bystander on its way out.

I am sure it is a great weapon for other applications such as hunting or just general plinking. The incident at Fort Hood only shows that this is an effective assault round capable of killing many people located at short to medium distance from the muzzle. Defensive weapons need to do what I described at a short distance.

I know we are getting really deep into the subject now.