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Marla Beringer
(masanella) - M
weight pumpsack Thermarest Xtherm on 09/02/2012 02:39:44 MDT Print View

In June I bought a Exped Downmat 7 UL, but since the Xtherm is on sale finally, I'm considering buying this one for even lighter weight.
Now I'm having doubts if the Xtherm will give me the weight gain I'm looking for. I will have to add the weight of the pumpsack to compare it to the Exped set.
Can anybody tell me what the pumpsack of the Xtherm weighs?

Marla

Darren M.
(dmacdaddy)

Locale: West
Weight on 09/02/2012 09:17:38 MDT Print View

Hi Marla,

Weight on mine is 1.6oz. Hope that helps.

Edited by dmacdaddy on 09/02/2012 13:51:29 MDT.

Marla Beringer
(masanella) - M
1.6 oz: so not the same as the standard Neo Air Pumpsack? on 09/02/2012 09:34:15 MDT Print View

Thank you!

So yours is the Pumpsack that comes with the Neo Air Xtherm? And it's a differtent Pumpsack than the Neor Air Pumpsack?

I was confused because I don't know if the Pumpsack for the XTherm is the same as the standard Neo Air Pumpsack.
According to REI this one weighs 2.7 oz, while in this review

http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Sleep%20Gear/Accessories/Therm-a-Rest%20NeoAir%20Pump%20Sack/Owner%20Review%20by%20Ray%20Estrella/

it weighs 3.2 oz.

Marla

Darren M.
(dmacdaddy)

Locale: West
weight on 09/02/2012 13:43:25 MDT Print View

Hey Marla... Yes, mine is the one that comes with the XTherm (just bought it last week). It seems smaller than the one pictures (mine is the same length but about half the diameter) on your link. Mine is the same grey/silver color as the mattress.

Edited by dmacdaddy on 09/02/2012 13:46:48 MDT.

Marla Beringer
(masanella) - M
Great! on 09/02/2012 14:28:55 MDT Print View

Thank you Darren, for reassuring me about the weight.
I almost sold my Exped, so now I can order the Xtherm!

Marla

Rick M
(rmjapan) - F

Locale: Tokyo, Japan
pumpsack leak? on 09/02/2012 16:53:45 MDT Print View

My Xtherm pumpsack leaked from the exit hole for the drawcord/cordlock from the git-go. First thought it was because the seam stiching had loose threads so I sent it back to Thermarest for repair. Kudos to Thermarest CS for the quick turnaround and repair, but it still leaks thru the drawcord hole, albeit more slowly. BTW, it weighs 45g for the Xtherm large.

Edited by rmjapan on 09/02/2012 16:57:33 MDT.

Kronos Master of Fate
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: weight pumpsack Thermarest Xtherm on 09/02/2012 16:56:46 MDT Print View

Microburst pad inflator is 2.3 oz. with lithium batteries. Just FYI.

greg c
(spindrifter) - F
Xtherm Stuff Sack on 09/02/2012 19:51:28 MDT Print View

Hi Marla,

I got the Xtherm last week and literally blew off the idea of using the sack since blowing it up is easy and relatively quick. Of course, everyone has different preferences so this is merely an opinion, but it did seem awfully easy and there is nothing more reliable than the instaflator called your lungs. Enjoy the new pad. I slept on it this morning in my living room and thought it was quite comfortable.

Greg

Darren M.
(dmacdaddy)

Locale: West
Water Vapor on 09/02/2012 20:26:28 MDT Print View

Hey Greg! Yes you are going to love the XTherm. The reason for inflation via an alternate means is that during the colder months your breath creates water vapor that can freeze in the mattress and does not evaporate easily in the field. Certainly when temps are above freezing it's not that big of a deal.

I will say that I got mine in large size and coming from the neoair small...it literally took my breath away inflating the large! :)

I didn't even know about the microburst that Ken mentioned. I like that and may look at that for my cooler months outings!

Edited by dmacdaddy on 09/02/2012 20:27:37 MDT.

obx hiker
(obxcola) - MLife

Locale: Outer Banks of North Carolina
pumpsack on 09/02/2012 20:48:53 MDT Print View

Make your own using a standard 13 gal kitchen trash bag. The kind with the built-in draw tape closer works great because the "tape" holds the opening open while you "catch" the air. Save the doo-hickey that connects the bag/inflator provided by thermarest to the air-pad valve and tape it into /around a small hole in the bottom of the trash bag. Saves a little weight but more importantly inflates about 10 times faster. My short takes @ 2 trash bags of air vs a dozen or so from the provided pump/bag and weighs a lot less even substituting a cuben bag for the provided bag/inflator to hold the packed pad.

greg c
(spindrifter) - F
Re: Water Vapor on 09/02/2012 21:28:48 MDT Print View

Hi Darren. I had read of that fear in numerous forums and after searching the Thermarest FAQ it appears to be unfounded as follows:


Will my breath freeze when blown into my mattress at low temperatures?

As your warm breath condensates in the cold, it is possible in extremely low temperatures to get a small accumulation of ice crystals inside your mattress. However, these pose no puncture hazard to any of our mattresses and the moisture itself is not a problem at all. (See “Will moisture build-up and ruin my mattress if I blow into it? “)


Regardless, you do bring up a valid concern. If mine blows up or becomes problematic I suppose it will be covered by a warranty claim.

Greg

Robert H
(roberth)
Re: Weight on 09/02/2012 22:08:59 MDT Print View

My pump-sack that game with my regular sized Xtherm weighs exactly 45 grams.

Edited by roberth on 09/02/2012 22:09:45 MDT.

Marla Beringer
(masanella) - M
Microburst vs Pump Sack on 09/03/2012 00:17:01 MDT Print View

Thanks all.

The Microburst I've read about somewhere, but I'm afraid I can't buy it over here in Europe. And still the Pump Sack that comes with the XTherm weighs less.

I can still use my lungs in case I lose or tear the Pump Sack. But if not necessary I will try to keep my pad dampfree.

Looks like a good idea to change my Exped for the XTherm.

Marla

PS Ken, I didn't hear from you anymore. Did you receive the Bearikade?

Marla

Edited by masanella on 09/03/2012 00:19:07 MDT.

Darren M.
(dmacdaddy)

Locale: West
WInter issues on 09/03/2012 00:23:10 MDT Print View

Sorry for the highjacking but...Greg, Thanks for the info. Funny, I just always believed all the info regarding water vapor etc. I wonder why then that CD includes the inflation sack with the XTherm and not the other NeoAir models? Just an economic decision? I'd sure like to hear from others if it's needed in freezing temps or not.

Rick M
(rmjapan) - F

Locale: Tokyo, Japan
Xtherm Pumpsack on 09/03/2012 00:50:39 MDT Print View

Based on my Xtherm Large experience, the pump/stuff sack that comes with the Xtherm is useless dead weight. It is tedious to use and poorly designed. I will/would not rely on it going forward and plan on cutting the valve off and mating it with a plastic garbage bag as described by Cola above.

Edited by rmjapan on 09/03/2012 00:51:32 MDT.

Rick M
(rmjapan) - F

Locale: Tokyo, Japan
Pumpack update on 09/04/2012 19:44:36 MDT Print View

Just to update, I followed Cola's advise and gently pulled/worked the valve out of the Xtherm pumpsack from the inside. This was easy to do and is non-destructive to the pumpsack. Then reinforced a corner of a garbage bag with duct tape, cut a hole on the corner and pushed the valve in.

Works great! Far more efficient and faster to fill taking less than 5 bags to fill the Xtherm large vs. 80+ with the pumpsack.

Edited by rmjapan on 09/04/2012 19:45:26 MDT.

Marla Beringer
(masanella) - M
how to inflate XTherm with pump sack on 09/29/2012 11:57:36 MDT Print View

Today I received my Thermarest Neo Air XTherm.

I know about all the alternatives some of you suggested (with other plastic bags, inflating machines and lungs) but first I first want to try the original pumpsack.

I really had a hard time in my first attempt to inflate the mat with the pump sack.
Is there any instruction video on the internet about using the (grey) pumpsack that comes with the XTherm?

I have had the Exped Downmat UL with a pumpsack and expected the TAR pumsack to be just as easy. I'm a bit disappointed at the moment, but perhaps I don't use the pumpsack the right way.

Marla

Edited by masanella on 09/29/2012 11:58:57 MDT.

Rakesh Malik
(Tamerlin)

Locale: Cascadia
Re: how to inflate XTherm with pump sack on 09/29/2012 13:28:06 MDT Print View

The trick that I developed is to twist the valve on the pad closed, then hold the pump sack (I'm using the bigger one, not the included one) up high, then fluff it up to fill it with air. Yank the draw cord closed, then twist the valve on the pad a bit open, and then roll the pump sack down. When it's fully rolled up, twist the valve closed again.

I've found that for the first few pumps, I don't need to close the valve between pumps, but in order to get it to be relatively firm, you need to prevent the air from escaping while you're refilling the pump sack. It took a bit of fiddling at first, but now it's pretty easy. For me the finicky part is closing the valve on the pad enough to avoid losing air while refilling the pump sack.

Rick M
(rmjapan) - F

Locale: Tokyo, Japan
valve design on 09/29/2012 15:34:10 MDT Print View

Yes, something as simple as a snorkel-like 1-way purge valve inside the nozzle would solve the back pressure issues. But using a bigger DIY bag lets one keep enough air pressure to offset the back pressure until you get the pad's valve closed.

Marla, the xTherm pump/stuff sack is a broken design. Besides being too small it is made of the wrong fabric and not properly seam sealed so it leaks. Don't exhaust yourself trying to "make it work". Buy a Big Agnes Pump House or make your own from a plastic bag or silnylon pack liner.

Edited by rmjapan on 09/29/2012 15:36:57 MDT.

Marla Beringer
(masanella) - M
perhaps a MYOG cuben fiber pump sack - which valve? on 09/30/2012 01:40:34 MDT Print View

Yes, the Thermarest pump sack that comes with the XTherm is really useless! I had cramps in my hands after so many times trying to get air in the mat.
The TAR-guys should be ashamed of themselves

I was used to the Exped Schnozzle Bag, which works great. Just 2-3 times of filling the bag ... easy! It's a pity the TAR-mat still has less weight, a lot, otherwise I would have stuck to the Exped.

I think I'm going to try a garbage bag first and then make a MYOG pump sack out of cuben fibe , that has the size of the Exped Schnozzle Bag. Now I like to know what's the best valve.
I can cut the Air Tap Pump out of the TAR-bag (or buy it seperately) and put that in a new, bigger bag. If that's works fine I'll try that first.

For the ones above that put the TAR valve into a garbage-bag: was that all you needed to make it work?

I also wonder about the snorkle-like valve.
Rick, will that make it a lot easier?

Marla