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How fast to you hike?
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 Kevin Burton (burtonator) - F Locale: norcal How fast to you hike? on 08/29/2012 11:42:42 MDT How fast to you guys hike? Curious what type of MPH you guys are getting.
 Hiking Malto (gg-man) - F Re: How fast to you hike? on 08/29/2012 12:07:31 MDT 3.0-3.5mph depending on terrain. Normally target 3mph with all stops and breaks. Don't always get that if I'm out for multiway and need to do chores such as laundry etc on the trail
 Art ... (asandh) - F Re: How fast to you hike? on 08/29/2012 12:07:40 MDT not a one size fits all question.speed can vary considerably due to weight carried, distance of hike, terraine including altitude, elevation gain and loss, trail bed type.also - how fast do you hike ? , and how fast can you hike ? are two different questions.who you are hiking with, and your motivations for a particular hike come in to play here. Edited by asandh on 08/29/2012 12:14:31 MDT.
 David Thomas (DavidinKenai) - MLife Locale: North Woods. Far North. Re: How fast do you hike? on 08/29/2012 12:25:14 MDT 4 mph in dayhike or UL mode. By which I mean 4 *equivilent* miles per hour.My equivilent miles = horizontal distance plus 10 x vertical distance (up AND down).eq. miles = miles + twice the vertical feet (in thousands)eq. km = km + every 100 m verticalExample: Half Dome this month: 9 miles, 5,000 vertical feet (1 mile) each way.9 + 9 + 10x1 + 10x1 = 38 equivilent (to flat terrain) miles 38 / 4 = 9.5 which is a touch under what it took (7 year old along), but the Grand Canyon last year (same numbers for the Bright Angel trail) was 9:15 with an 11-year-old.If on my own and in shape, I do more like 5 eq. mph for shorter dayhikes (less than 25 horizontal / 40 eq. miles). But for a long dayhike (40+ miles), it is usually right around 4 eq.mph. As it is for UL BPing.With a large group of traditional (non-UL) BPers, I used to figure 1 mph from the start to finish of the day's hike including breaks, water, lunch. 10 miles = 10 hours. It was pretty consistent. And pretty ugly if you planned for any faster.If you have NOTHING but experienced, conditioned traditional BPers, then a group can do 2 mph averaged over the day.
 Art ... (asandh) - F Re: Re: How fast do you hike? on 08/29/2012 12:31:49 MDT Wow, that's an incredibly scientific breakdown David.
 Robert Blean (blean) - MLife Locale: San Jose -- too far from Sierras Sounds a lot like the AMC formula on 08/29/2012 12:45:28 MDT The Appies used to suggest a formula of 2 mph + 1/2 hour for every thousand feet of ascent. They used this for traditional groups. I don't know whether or not they still advocate the same formula.David -- I'm surprised at your experience that descent should get counted the same as ascent.
 Kevin Babione (KBabione) - MLife Locale: Pennsylvania How fast do you hike? on 08/29/2012 12:50:16 MDT I generally hike with the same group of guys (from 3-6 of us) and it's a little scary, but we can count on almost exactly 2 mph from camp to camp each day. That includes all stops and a break for lunch. We typically don't push it very hard (none of us get out enough or work out to be in shape). If we hiked 14 miles to get to the next camp I can look at my watch and see that we left the previous camp almost exactly 7 hours earlier. This is a great number to know for the group with which you're hiking because it allows you to look at available daylight and where your next camp is to tell you when you need to be on the trail in the morning.
 Duane Hall (PKH) - M Locale: Nova Scotia Hiking speed on 08/29/2012 14:03:30 MDT Depending on terrain of course, but typically 4.5 to 5.5 km per hour.
 Jake D (JakeDatc) - F Locale: Bristol,RI Re: Sounds a lot like the AMC formula on 08/29/2012 14:05:27 MDT "book time" is what Robert said in my White Mountain guide and Long Trail guide. That is moving time only, stops not included. I tend to beat book time even with breaks. depends on the trail by how much and where i'm looking to get to.
 Paul Magnanti (PaulMags) - MLife Locale: People's Republic of Boulder Depends on 08/29/2012 14:49:49 MDT Is there a cooler full of beer waiting for me in my truck and/or nearby brew pubs? In which case my pace picks up considerably on the last day of a trip vs the first day.....
 Scott Bentz (scottbentz) - MLife Locale: Southern California How fast to you hike on 08/29/2012 16:01:34 MDT In the Sierra, with so much elevation gain and loss, I just figure 2 miles per hour which includes a stop for lunch and a swim, etc. If I am alone, I can bump that up a bit, but not much. When we did the JMT a few years ago it just always came out that way. 20 mile days need 10 hours to complete.
 David Thomas (DavidinKenai) - MLife Locale: North Woods. Far North. Re: Sounds a lot like the AMC formula on 08/29/2012 16:59:47 MDT "David -- I'm surprised at your experience that descent should get counted the same as ascent."Robert: I'll grant that the ENERGY expended going down a mild slope is less than that going up. However, the total SORENESS at the end of day/week depends more on the downhill portion, so I give them equal weight.For me, the gestalt at the end of the day/week is the sum of tiredness/energy + soreness. It is also that combination which is the limit of what I will wisely plan for (given my conditioning that month) or stupidly regret for days afterwards.If someone with a gun was chasing me or there was a million dollars for whoever hiked the farthest that day, then I'd calculate equilivent miles as horizontal + 10*vertical up + 5*vertical down, soreness afterwards be damned. Is that what AMC does? I don't know their formula. Even though I'm an AMC coach (American Mathematics Competition, that is).Editted to add: Oh, I see you gave their formula. I'll try it for a Curry-Half Dome-Curry round trip. 18 horizontal / 2 + 5,000 vertical x 1/2 hour = 9+2.5 = 11.5 hours. That seems like a Sierra Club kind of time (I'm a left-coaster) with an older, inclined-to-birdwatch crowd. But a group that keeps moving and is in decent shape. I think they over-count the ascending vertical feet, but maybe there are descending vertical feet built into that? I consider Half Dome ascent (9 miles + 5,000 up) and they'd calc 4.5+2.5=7 hours whereas I'd (out of kindness) shoot and bury anyone who took 7 hours to summit. Their 4.5 hours to descend is a leisurely walk in the (national) park. Edited by DavidinKenai on 08/29/2012 17:23:46 MDT.
 USA Duane Hall (hikerduane) - F Locale: Extreme northern Sierra Nevada How fast do you hike? on 08/29/2012 17:54:56 MDT Going by my watch, normally do 2 mph. If jogging downhill, 3.5-4 mph with intermittant walking for slight uphills or photo taking. Seems like it gets harder each year, but basically I'm still cranking out the same mph. Hitting 59 here pretty soon.Duane
 Jake D (JakeDatc) - F Locale: Bristol,RI Re: How fast do you hike? on 08/29/2012 19:00:35 MDT I am not sure why AMC doesn't count downhills.. the terrain up here slows you down as much on the way down if not more than on the way up just because you can't really increase your speed no matter how fit you are. ie http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v115/Socjake/White%20Mountains/IMG_0285.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v115/Socjake/White%20Mountains/Presi%20traverse/IMG_0335.jpg
 Robert Blean (blean) - MLife Locale: San Jose -- too far from Sierras Re: Re: Sounds a lot like the AMC formula on 08/29/2012 20:00:01 MDT David,AMC formula -- Younger fit folks in the area consider the Appie formula ("guidebook time") pretty conservative. I guess it has to be since it is used in their published guidebooks, and believed by the general hiking public."older, inclined-to-birdwatch crowd" -- one interesting thing in the local Sierra Club is that there are two day hiking sections. The one populated mainly by post-retirees does day hikes that are more than twice as long (20+ miles) as those in the other (younger) section (8-10 miles). What struck me most was not the separation into the two groups, but rather that the one that covered the most distance is almost exclusively the older folks. I would have expected fit younger folks there as well.Equivalent miles -- I had not thought of it that way before seeing your post, but I like the concept. For one thing, anyone can use it for their own trips by applying their own base hiking speed.Soreness -- the issue is DOMS, due to the eccentric contractions when going downhill. Suitable gym work can minimize that, if so inclined. Since it is a delayed effect I would not have expected it to affect time/speed that day -- just getting started for the next day :)FWIW: I got to wondering about combining "equivalent miles" (eMiles) with calorie expenditure, based on some bits and pieces from another thread currently in progress on that subject. *) It has a pointer to a calorie calculator that seems like a pretty good fit with several folks' hiking/backpacking experience, so I thought I would take that as a reference point. *) Some folks believe that calories per mile gives a good estimate. It seems to me that you have to take elevation change into account, so I wondered whether applying it to eMiles might not work better. *) The claim is that, other things being equal (terrain, distance, etc) speed does not matter enough to worry about -- but time does. I wondered whether using eMiles might not be a good way to extend that thought to varying ups and downs.I tried it (a little) using three different ways of calculating eMiles: 1) Your way, as presented 2) Your way, but adding for ascent (only) and ignoring descent 3) Equivalent to the AMC way: trail miles + 1 mile for every thousand feet ascentWhat I found, based on limited experimenting, was that method #2 came the closest. I do not know what, if any, relationship this has to reality but it was an interesting thought exercise.
 Eugene Smith (Eugeneius) - MLife Locale: Nuevo Mexico Re: How fast to you hike? on 08/29/2012 20:45:59 MDT "Fast" enough.
 michael levi (M.L) - F Locale: W-Never Eat Soggy (W)affles How fast do you hike? on 08/29/2012 22:27:57 MDT It depends on the situation, but having a light pack sure helps I can tell you that.
 David Thomas (DavidinKenai) - MLife Locale: North Woods. Far North. Re: Re: Re: Sounds a lot like the AMC formula on 08/29/2012 22:49:17 MDT Robert, I agree with your observation, "mainly by post-retirees does day hikes that are more than twice as long" as, morep pithily, "age and treachery beat youth and beauty everytime."In my 20's I've had my butt kicked on the ski slopes and the Whitney trail by guys in their 80's. Now in my 50's, I'll sometimes get cocky and see how many 20-somethings I can hike past. Often, the answer is "all of them". For me, that increased ability is strongly governed by conditioning in advance, as you reference. For me, the best "gym work", is simply going up and down actual, real stairs. As little as 10 minutes a day, 4 times a week for a month prior makes a HUGE difference for a steep deathmarch-type hike. Actual hill work is great if you can find it, but I live in a flat area.
 Tyler Johnson (riemannia) - F Locale: Northeast Georgia hiking speed on 08/29/2012 23:05:19 MDT I always shoot for 3 MPH since that seems to be what most UL-ers report, but I find that I'm unable to maintain that pace for more than about an hour. I've always hypothesized that it's because most UL-ers seem to be on the West coast or in the Rockies and perhaps Appalachian terrain is more inhibitive with all of our famous PUDs, but I dunno. I find 2.5 MPH is the upper bound for what I can maintain; I just hike 10-12 hour days with a few breaks as possible to compensate. Edited by riemannia on 08/29/2012 23:07:15 MDT.
 John Almond (FLRider) - F Locale: The Southeast Re: hiking speed on 08/30/2012 08:02:58 MDT riemannia posted: I always shoot for 3 MPH since that seems to be what most UL-ers report, but I find that I'm unable to maintain that pace for more than about an hour. I've always hypothesized that it's because most UL-ers seem to be on the West coast or in the Rockies and perhaps Appalachian terrain is more inhibitive with all of our famous PUDs, but I dunno. I find 2.5 MPH is the upper bound for what I can maintain; I just hike 10-12 hour days with a few breaks as possible to compensate.Same here. My flat-ground average speed is about 2.5 MPH over the full day after factoring in breaks. I probably break 3 to 3.25 MPH as actual trail speed when I'm trying to make time, but it's not sustainable for longer than ten miles or so. And David's formula above sounds about right for my speed in the mountains (I've only had two trips there, so my sample group is rather small) unless I'm fastpacking/running (which I had to do on my second mountain trip to get help for my hiking buddy; praise the Foothills Trail for making me aware of my cardio regime's deficiencies beforehand).Now, with the intensive cardio training I've been suffering through for the last few months, I figure I can probably up that to 3 MPH or so on the flat as an average in another couple of months; I'm shooting to be able to do a full triathlon some time in the fall next year.