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jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MSNBC on 10/08/2012 14:25:14 MDT Print View

I've worked at a number of companies that hired a bunch of engineers and physicists and technicians and... You pretty much have to have a PHD, BS, or 2 year degree to get hired. And people I've talked to recently say they're still looking for well trained people. We need more, educated people.

In 1970s, I had to borrow $3,000 to get BS which created all the high tech of the 1990s. Today it's more like $50,000. We should go back to what worked after WWII up to the 1970s, which produced all the economic progress.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

"Too bad Obama doesn't take your approach"

I disagree

Obamacare is a partial fix to the Medicare part D deficit

We're not totally out of Iraq, but spending is much less and declining with time.

There's at least a plan to get out of Afganistan.

I wish we'de get out quicker but I'm not privy to inside information that might change my mind.

Obama has tried to get rid of the unpaid for tax cuts.

Obama has tried to push through some programs to help the economy.

It's unreasonable to expect Obama to fix everything in 4 years.

When the Republicans #1 priority is to get Obama un-elected and will do anything to make this so, it's hard to blame Obama for not getting bipartisan solutions.

It's funny, Romney said that if he gets elected, unlike Obama, he'll sit down with Republican and Democratic leaders and come up with bi-partisan solutions. That's funny, I remember Obama with Republican leaders. They came up with some solutions. When Boehner showed the agreement to "tea-party" people they refused to go along and the deal collapsed.

Republcians say the deal was killed because Democrats insisted on more taxes, but again, it's not that Obama didn't sit down with leaders and come up with bipartisan compromise.

Lynn Tramper
(retropump) - F

Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
Re: MSNBC on 10/08/2012 16:31:46 MDT Print View

I totally agree that the world has become too degree focused. Many, many jobs don't require advanced degrees, yet employers have come to expect it. A lot of people can't get jobs packing grocery shelves anymore without a 'degree' in something. How much of this is successful marketing on the part of institutions supplying these degrees?

I also agree that bi-partisan agreements seem remote when the major parties are so bent on discrediting eachother. If a party doesn't have control of both houses, it becomes a bit of a deadlock, and when they do control both houses, it becomes a juggernaut. Why not try a multi-partisan approach to government??

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: MSNBC on 10/08/2012 16:38:49 MDT Print View

"Why not try a multi-partisan approach to government??"

We barely have the attention span for two candidates......

Brad Fisher
(wufpackfn)

Locale: NC/TN/VA Mountains
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: MSNBC on 10/08/2012 19:04:11 MDT Print View

Jerry I'm not sure we are disagreeing about education cost. I think it is outrageous and not required. I think we differ on the approach. You are suggesting the govt help offset the cost. I'm saying lower the cost. Lower the cost by eliminating all the extra courses that are not applicable to the degree and just focus on the requirements. This would easily reduce the cost by 1 yr or 25%. This saves the student and taxpayer. The college loses the revenue, but they can offset by admitting more students since it doesn't take as long.

We have had a shortage in technical resources for many years. Why do you think the H1B visas are so popular. I have used job postings for technical resources in the past and 100% of the responses are foreign candidates. I was shocked that I couldn't get anyone to apply that was a US Citizen. However the void surely hasn't been filled over the past 20 years and giving people assistance isn't going to help attract more candidates.

Yeah we can just disagree on the rest. I think both parties are screwed up.

Brad

Brad Fisher
(wufpackfn)

Locale: NC/TN/VA Mountains
Re: Re: MSNBC on 10/08/2012 19:05:56 MDT Print View

"I totally agree that the world has become too degree focused. Many, many jobs don't require advanced degrees, yet employers have come to expect it. A lot of people can't get jobs packing grocery shelves anymore without a 'degree' in something. How much of this is successful marketing on the part of institutions supplying these degrees? "

Bingo we have a winner. Lynn you are so right. Institutions have become great marketers and financiers over the last 20 years.

Brad

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: MSNBC on 10/08/2012 19:39:53 MDT Print View

I went to a school that has about the least humanities classes required of any school in the U.S. - Caltech. One of my humanitities classes was "the philosophy of mathematics".

Yet, I think it's a good thing for technical people to take classes besides just technical subjects whichs makes less than 4 years more difficult. There's more than just solving physics or engineering problems to running a business and living a life.

And a lot of students screw up a little, or change their major, and require the full 4 years. Or more.

But I agree, we should push back and try to reduce the costs of getting an education. Maybe more important is to coordinate with businesses that want to hire people to make sure we're training people in the right areas.

Sometimes businesses prefer H1B people because they'll work for less and complain less.

I agree, both parties are screwed up, yet we have to vote for one or the other. Maybe more important than voting is to call your congressmen and tell them what you want them to do.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: MSNBC on 10/08/2012 19:51:59 MDT Print View

"I agree, both parties are screwed up, yet we have to vote for one or the other."

And here, as I have before, I'll respectfully disagree. As long as we continue to believe this, nothing will ever change.

Brad Fisher
(wufpackfn)

Locale: NC/TN/VA Mountains
Re: Re: MSNBC on 10/08/2012 20:18:35 MDT Print View

"But I agree, we should push back and try to reduce the costs of getting an education. Maybe more important is to coordinate with businesses that want to hire people to make sure we're training people in the right areas."

Right on. I find it odd that they don't partner well together.

"Sometimes businesses prefer H1B people because they'll work for less and complain less."

Not been my experience. The communication barriers far outweigh these benefits. Offshoring has a huge cost savings, but i few companies have a good experience.

You really think me calling my congressman is going to have any impact? Special interest groups have both parties tied up.

I think the only way to get their attention is to vote everyone out of office. Do that for a few elections and people will start listening.

Brad

James Castleberry
(Winterland76)
Question(s) for Brad and Jerry on 10/08/2012 21:29:54 MDT Print View

Do either of you care about NDAA or consider habeas corpus to be important? Puzzles me why no one is raising this as an election issue. Personally, I would want to vote for a candidate who supports habeas corpus, but I'm kinda weird.

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
Well on 10/08/2012 22:05:11 MDT Print View

I find it unbelievable that nobody is making a bigger fuss about our ambassador being murdered and drug through the streets.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Well on 10/08/2012 23:22:26 MDT Print View

and do you find it unbelievable, Michael, that no one isn't making a bigger fuss about "fast and furious", the fabricated 7.8% unemployment report, Obama's birth certificate, and "the Donald's" hair? : )

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
Re: Re: Well on 10/08/2012 23:55:09 MDT Print View

I don't consider an attack on our nation a joking matter Jerry. And attacking an ambassador is just that.

So yeah, I take exception to drawing a comparison to hair and find one just a wee bit worse. By hey that's just me.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Well on 10/09/2012 08:00:53 MDT Print View

I don't consider attacking the president during a crisis to take political advantage a joking matter, like Romney did.

We should gather round, temporarily (even for just a day or two) and provide united front against enemies.

Like we did after 9/11.

In the first hours after a crisis, the facts are fluid. Rash actions can make things worse. I'm worried that Romney would act rashly just to show what a tough guy he is. I prefer Obama's cool, reasoned reaction.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: Well on 10/09/2012 08:18:44 MDT Print View

I like how on that video, after the 47% comment, Romney said that it's hopeless to find a solution to Isreal/Palestine problem and we shouldn't worry about it.

Later, he determined that wasn't a good answer, so he says that an Isreal/Palestine solution is important to work on.

He will say or do anything to get elected.

It's impossible to know what he really thinks or will do.

Same with the 47% comment. When there was a lot of push-back, he said it was stated "inelegantly". When the criticisms continued, he changed it to "he was completely wrong".

I've never seen such a phony, plastic politician, which is saying something because politicians are so phony and plastic.

I can't believe anyone takes him seriously.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Re: Well on 10/09/2012 08:23:06 MDT Print View

"I prefer Obama's cool, reasoned reaction."

Especially when HE killed Bin Laden.

He hasn't faced a true crisis yet and has not been tested.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Well on 10/09/2012 09:11:16 MDT Print View

The other one he got was Kadafi

That guy got away with killing Americans for years. Many "tough guy" presidents let him be. Obama got justice.

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
Haha on 10/09/2012 09:25:14 MDT Print View

We were doing deals with Libya right up until the uprising. Just because Obama decided we could help one side a bit is hardly "getting" anybody.

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Well on 10/09/2012 09:26:36 MDT Print View

And obamas lack of response is our ambassadors death is weak. Romney should go after him. And for pulling the security for the guy.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Haha on 10/09/2012 09:28:32 MDT Print View

Ask Kadafi if "he's got"

Oh, you can't...

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Well on 10/09/2012 09:31:12 MDT Print View

"And obamas lack of response is our ambassadors death is weak. Romney should go after him. And for pulling the security for the guy."

Do you mean that if Romney did more "tough guy talk" he'd be more likely to get elected?