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Romney/Ryan 2012
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Fred Thorp
(BFThorp) - F
O my on 10/04/2012 08:16:52 MDT Print View

@Jerry

"if you and Romney were honest, you'de admit that the reason Romney doesn't like Obama-care is that it's a democratic party proposal and he thinks it's an issue he can win the presidency over"

It's not a federal issue. Whether you think it's a good idea or not, it's not the role of the fed.

Robert Perkins
(rp3957)

Locale: The Sierras
Romney/Ryan on 10/04/2012 08:22:00 MDT Print View

I'll feel some empathy for O once he's out of office and not sending out country down the same path as Greece! Right now I think he is a dangerous, clueless leader.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Debating on 10/04/2012 08:23:55 MDT Print View

Romney has never run a business. He has been a "vulture capitalist" that takes money out of businesses before bankrupting them. Or made investments in unhealthy businesses, like Staples, that eventually got better but Romney had nothing to do with running the business.

Ask Osama if Obama's a fool

Ask Kidafi - he got away with murder for years before Obama finally got justice

The economy's not great, but the stock market is at close to record levels so investors are voting that Obama's doing okay. It took 10 or 15 years to recover from the 1930 crash - but that was a worse recession. In the 1970s it took 10 years to recover but that wasn't as bad a recession.

I feel sorry for O - because the opposition's #1 priority is to make sure he's not re-elected and will try to block any progress. It's amazing O has accomplished anything.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: O my on 10/04/2012 08:27:47 MDT Print View

"It's not a federal issue. Whether you think it's a good idea or not, it's not the role of the fed."

The Supreme's ruled otherwise.

That's what they said about social security and medicare.

"Obama-care" is an idea that conservative groups, like the Heritage Foundation, came up with as an alternative to "medicare for all"

if you and Romney were honest, you'de admit that the reason Romney doesn't like Obama-care is that it's a democratic party proposal and he thinks it's an issue he can win the presidency over

Michael Duke
(mpd1690) - F
Re: Re: Debating on 10/04/2012 08:34:53 MDT Print View

"Romney has never run a business. He has been a "vulture capitalist" that takes money out of businesses before bankrupting them. Or made investments in unhealthy businesses, like Staples, that eventually got better but Romney had nothing to do with running the business."

"Romney’s role with companies varied. With Staples, he sat on the company board for more than a decade. With many others, he left oversight and daily management to his associates appointed to company boards and executives running the businesses, said Wolpow. Executives of several companies bought by Bain said they had little or no interaction with Romney."

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-20/romney-as-job-creator-clashes-with-bain-record-of-job-cuts.html

Perhaps he has done some questionable things as a business leader, but to say that Bain Capital is not a business, and that he did not have any hand in running any business is false.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Run it like a business. on 10/04/2012 08:38:54 MDT Print View

Because global human interaction is just that simple.

...

Randian fetishization of the businessman at its finest.

Edited by xnomanx on 10/04/2012 08:49:27 MDT.

Michael Duke
(mpd1690) - F
Re: Re: O my on 10/04/2012 08:45:55 MDT Print View

A few things:

"Obama missed too many opportunities, like he should have pointed out the $716 billion is the amount health providers agreed they saved because they will have fewer un-insured people because of Obama-care - not money being taken from medicare people. He should have used the term "Romney-care"."

There are other options to save money besides using Obama-care. I will tie this point in later, but the Supreme Court ruled that the mandate was legal. That means that you can mandate people to have insurance, or fine them. If I am interpreting your point correctly, this is where the 716 billion in savings comes from. You can have any individual mandate without Obama-care.



""It's not a federal issue. Whether you think it's a good idea or not, it's not the role of the fed."

The Supreme's ruled otherwise."


The Supreme Court did not rule that health care is the role of the Federal Government. The SC ruled that the individual mandate was legal. Ruling something legal is much different than ruling it "the role of the fed". For example, it is not illegal for me to post this information, but that does not mean that I have to, or that it is my role to.

Michael Duke
(mpd1690) - F
Re: Run it like a business. on 10/04/2012 08:49:16 MDT Print View

"Because the sum of all human interactions in this world are just that simple."

This really depends on what each individual thinks the role of government should be.

(as disclosure, I am an undecided voter. I just want people to vote informed)

Edited by mpd1690 on 10/04/2012 08:52:03 MDT.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Debating on 10/04/2012 08:53:34 MDT Print View

"He has been a "vulture capitalist" that takes money out of businesses before bankrupting them."

Venture Capital firms look for investments that will generate very large returns, often in the order of 35% or greater per annum, and most often for an equity stake should the company not perform. Any company that requires the services of a Venture Capital firm cannot get enough financing through conventional sources or are at the precipice of failure. That is, no longer a going concern. To say that Romney, having had invested into a company and then was forced to take over a company because of poor operating performance and then be forced to divest the company's assets indicates that he can't run a business is ludicrous and indicates that perhaps you are unaware of how the process works.

Shall we discuss Obama's investment into companies researching and developing alternative fuels? How is that track record and what is the difference between what Romney did and what Obama has done? The difference is that Romney's company made a positive return. Obama's didn't. And yet there were still no jobs created.

More importantly, pick your poison - Socialism or Capitalism. You can't have Capitalism when things are good and Socialism when things are bad.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Re: Hmm on 10/04/2012 09:12:02 MDT Print View

I am with Brad, and Doug, and Ken.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: O my on 10/04/2012 09:18:58 MDT Print View

The $716 billion is not money taken from seniors - that's just a Republican, focus group tested issue that they think will convince people to vote for them

Romney initially said that he wanted to repeal Obama-care, but things like not allowing insurance companies to deny coverage based on pre-existing conditions are popular, so now Romney is in favor of this. And when he was governor, he argued that if you disallow pre-existing conditions, you have to mandate that everyone have insurance or it won't work economically - people will just wait to get insurance until they get sick.

But mandates are another focus group tested issue that Republicans think they can use, so Romney says this is a violation of the 10th amendment - another focus group tested argument that Republican's think they can use.

Romney will say anything to get elected. Who knows what would happen after he got elected.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: Re: Re: Debating on 10/04/2012 09:21:36 MDT Print View

"More importantly, pick your poison - Socialism or Capitalism. You can't have Capitalism when things are good and Socialism when things are bad."

Since when?
That strategy seems to work pretty well for big business and the banking industry in this country. Is our collective memory so short that we've already forgotten the bailouts? Forgotten that neither democrats nor republicans have yet to make any meaningful effort to press for the prosecution of anyone noteworthy in the whole fiasco?

But hey, no worries, we'll just go and rewrite the script to paint the homeowner who saddled themselves with an adjustable rate, interest only home loan and then lost their job as the villain in this comedy.

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Re: O my on 10/04/2012 09:22:31 MDT Print View

"Romney will say anything to get elected. Who knows what would happen after he got elected."

Alternatively, Obama will say anything to get elected. Who knows what would happen after he got elected.

Except, of course, we know.

Fred Thorp
(BFThorp) - F
but more importantly... on 10/04/2012 09:24:51 MDT Print View

The "I think a squirrel just ran up my leg" guy, had another meltdown after the debate.

@ Jerry I don't know where to start. Maybe turn off MSNBC for a while. I remember the Today Show trying to make T Boone Pickens look like a villain in October of '87. It would have made a good SNL skit.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: but more importantly... on 10/04/2012 09:29:22 MDT Print View

Good point about SNL, Fred

Maybe Tina Fey parody of Sarah Palin is more responsible for Obama winning than anything else : )

Fred Thorp
(BFThorp) - F
SNL on 10/04/2012 09:38:48 MDT Print View

Tina does a great Sarah.

"Maybe Tina Fey parody of Sarah Palin is more responsible for Obama winning than anything else : )"

The sad part is, it wouldn't suprise me.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: SNL on 10/04/2012 09:44:51 MDT Print View

Time for some timely SNL work to make sure Obama is re-elected

We found something to agree on : )

Dave U
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Rockies
Re: Re: Re: Re: Debating on 10/04/2012 09:45:52 MDT Print View

"That strategy seems to work pretty well for big business and the banking industry in this country. Is our collective memory so short that we've already forgotten the bailouts?"

That strategy was a mess. The US touts itself as a Capitalist economy. What should have happened was that some of the banks should have failed. No bailout. Would people have lost their homes? Yes. Did they lose their homes after the bailout? Yes.

The fact that some banks were forced to take the bailout (i.e. Wells Fargo) was a forcefed attempt at a social program that wasn't required. Big business? You mean like those in the Auto Industry? Like Ford, that didn't even need nor want a bailout and were thankfully permitted to opt out. GM is in trouble again. Do they need another bailout? You paying?

Not to mention, a large number of companies that received bailouts are now bankrupt in spite of them.

The banks never forced anyone to sign up for variable rate mortgages and home equity loans (very funny, Sir). The banks did a great marketing job and the public fell for it - what, you mean I can get something for nothing? Sign me up! The economy works like a zero sum game. Free doesn't exist. Take some responsibility for your actions. If 'you' were silly enough to live beyond your means then I suggest more education is on the menu.

No new jobs but free phones under Obama. Thank goodness.

Ernie Elkins
(EarthDweller)

Locale: North Carolina
Re: Debating on 10/04/2012 09:54:52 MDT Print View

"I'm not a big Romney fan but what little I saw, he did look like the knowing adult in the room. I am beginning to feel a little sorry for O."

While I, too, am beginning to feel sorry for Obama, it's certainly not because he's out of his depth. Rather, it's because it must be immensely frustrating to debate a seemingly shameless liar who, essentially, claims to have magic wand that will somehow fix everything at no cost for anyone, anywhere. From where I sat, Obama was the "knowing adult," the one who made it clear that you can't have your cake and eat it too, that you can't do all of the things that Romney claims that he can do without either blowing up the deficit (as Republican presidents have pretty darn good track record of doing) or cutting programs that are essential to the health and prosperity of our nation.

David Lutz
(davidlutz)

Locale: Bay Area
"Romney/Ryan 2012" on 10/04/2012 09:58:18 MDT Print View

Romney just needs to convince a few percentage points of likely voters that he's a reasonable guy and he will win.

He went a long way towards accomplishing that last night.