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Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: efficiency of large collective public enterprises on 08/28/2012 15:45:02 MDT Print View

"If anyone out there knows of a Hedge Fund or a Mutual Fund (an index fund would be nice) operating at LOWER costs please let us all know NOW!"

Check out almost any index fund. They all operate at less than 1% of assets under management, and most are below .5%. The Vanguard Index 500(VFINX) currently has an expense ratio of .17%

Lynn Tramper
(retropump) - F

Locale: The Antipodes of La Coruna
Re: blame game on 08/28/2012 15:47:39 MDT Print View

What strikes me, is basically the blame game. My question still stands. Do any of you REALLY think that one party will perform better than the other, with the American and world economies in a desperate state, and the huge deficits already in place? Or is the American political system so broken already that nothing, short of another revolution of some kind, can fix it?

BTW, just my personal opinion (as is everything in this thread), but economies of scale would suggest that a 'properly' run federal system, be it health, education, or welfare, will be more cost effective than a multitude of private ones. But you would have to take the profit and corruption out of the systems (which is what makes the private supply of public goods so costly). That would mean a party that has no vested interest in private options. This seems to me the crux of the problem. There is no such mainstream party at the moment.

Take the feds out of it all together and you would basically have the NAEU (North American Economic Union). We've seen how well THAT can work (sarcasm for sure).

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: 50 States on 08/28/2012 15:51:10 MDT Print View

"Scaling back is fine with me if we change the way we approach these conflicts."

How about the cheapest alternative of all: Staying the he!! out of conflicts in the first place. If Iraq and Afghanistan have proved anything, it's that there isn't any such thing as a cheap conflict, given the way we fight our wars.

"We have got to take the gloves off and quit trying to be the world's police." The second part of this I understand and applaud, but I'm not sure what you mean by taking the gloves off. Carpet bomb 'em into the stone age? Nuke 'em 'til they glow?

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: 50 States on 08/28/2012 15:58:25 MDT Print View

"When someone does a terrorist act against us, we should treat it like a police action, "

Or maybe find out what caused them to commit such an act in the first place. As we have found out in Afghanistan, police actions can become a very debilitating, low grade conflict that drags on for years at enormous cost and suffering, both where the conflict is taking place, creating a new generation of "terrorists" in the process, and here at home, as the mangled in mind and body come trickling home to pose an enormous burden on our society without having achieved anything worthwhile. Better to resolve the underlying grievance, IMO.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Re: 50 States on 08/28/2012 16:01:27 MDT Print View

"The issues that they are bringing to the fore front makes it sound like they want us to go back to the 1950's. Oh and the ignorant starements by dumb, white piliticians over womens reproductive rights ..."

More like the 1350's, I'd say.

Fred Thorp
(BFThorp) - F
carpet nuking... on 08/28/2012 16:49:41 MDT Print View

"but I'm not sure what you mean by taking the gloves off. Carpet bomb 'em into the stone age? Nuke 'em 'til they glow?"

Uhm, just short of carpet nuking. But seriously... I think you get my drift. No more need for surgical talk. Lets have clear cut rules of engagement like we are at war and want to win the dang thing and go home. We don't tinker, we don't police, so don't pester us, kind of attitude. You shoot at me, your block gets flattened. A lot of people won't agree with me here either, but I don't believe in being the worlds door mat.

Edited by BFThorp on 08/28/2012 16:53:24 MDT.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: blame game on 08/28/2012 16:54:06 MDT Print View

Lynn

"Do any of you REALLY think that one party will perform better than the other, with the American and world economies in a desperate state, and the huge deficits already in place?"

The root problem is that we have the best government money can buy

The Democrats almost unanimously voted for a bill that would require political contributors would be identified.

The Republicans voted almost unanimously that political contributions be anonymous.


The Democrats voted to re-instate something similar to Glass Stegal and for the "Buffet Rule" that requires people over $250K pay at least 30% federal tax. The Republicans voted against.


etc. etc....


The deficit could be way reduced if we just quit those programs put into place during the Bush administration. If the Republicans, especially the crazy ones, got spanked in the election maybe the moderate Republicans would be able to take back their party. Our debt is high but not unprecedented.


Things were way worse during the great depression, WWII,... It will be relatively easy for us to recover from our current problems.

Ken Helwig
(kennyhel77) - MLife

Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA
Re: Funny stuff on 08/28/2012 17:01:04 MDT Print View

"Nevermind But.. If you really believe that... there probably isn't much point in going on."


Yes I do. The platform that the Reupublican Party has adopted is not the same as it has been over the last 30 years. From being a party that had more interest in "fiscal" reponsibility etc. to moral values that I feel are being shoved down my throat. Sorry but when you have people in the Republican party that cannot even define what rape is, or say that rape and having a child is like having a child out of wedlock then I have to say the lunatics have taken over the asylum. Birth control? Just don't have sex. Porn? Eradicate it. Hey I am horny and like to do it and I love beautiful women on film...big deal. Get over your hang ups. The pressure that The Tea Party has pushed onto the old guard Republican Party is quite evident. The rhetoric that has been spewed over the last 4 years has me thinking that we have not progressed as a society here in the USA. Outlaw abortion, cut programs for those that need..ie welfare, umemployment insurance, gutting FEMA, cutting many of our government agencies that watch out for the goodness our people that do not have a voice. Healthcare....Why cannot anyone realize that a major overhaul is necessary for our society. Why is it that EU countries can have many things that ALL societies should have...we are sooooo far behind in terms of being progressive. I am not calling for a welfare state, I am calling for a country that cares....what the F is wrong with that??? Yes we are a big country but really, the rhetoric and vitriol has gotten out of hand. Yes both parties have a burden of blame...but when I see bumper stickers saying "Don't Re Nig In 2012" that saddens me greatly. Yes it is a play on words, but we all know what that means. Why is it so offensive to have a African America President? Or as some of you might say he is only half...then my response is, well his wife and children fit that description more and maybe that is the problem? Again, we as a modern society have not come a long way from the 60's. I remember seeing bathroom that DID NOT allow those of color to use them...we are not that far off from then. What about immigration? Darn latinos! Again I have seen the far right lash out at programs like allowing them in California to have drivers licenses. Clue.....they already drive....why not make it legal. Why not make them get insurance so that they can drive legal. What place is it of ours to not allow others to come here and earn a living. Just remember the next time you go to a restaurant and order a meal, those illegals are making your food, washing your dishes, and busing your table. Or hey, what about the food you eat? Who do you think worked those fields in scorching heat (talking CA Central Valley). If only you knew how much our food would cost if we paid wages to "legal" citizens....BTW who wants to work the fields for $10 an hour? Right. What about Gay rights? Taboo....Yes you know, I feel others have the right to marry. It does not affect me. I don't believe in being exclusionary the far right sure do. They want nothing more than to do that. Don't get me started on two wars that had NOTHING to do with 9/11. The amount of money that has been spent, and the death toll on innocent people in those two countries sickens me. Shame on our Govt. for the deception that they caused. We fell for it hook line and sinker. I am not some angry sign touting Lib...far from it. I have a healthy disdain for the far left. However, if I had to pick which side of the fence to sit on, it certainly would not be on the right.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: carpet nuking... on 08/28/2012 17:13:14 MDT Print View

I agree Fred, if someone bullies you, you have to strike back hard. Let them remember that when they screw with you it will hurt them. Even though it hurts yourself. Don't be a door mat.

Bush attacked Afganistan and Irag that had nothing to do with 9/11

Strangely enough, Obama is the one that got Osama Bin Laden

Funny, the similarity between the names Obama and Osama - I keep mixing them up - but that will fade now...

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Funny stuff on 08/28/2012 17:17:22 MDT Print View

"Why is it so offensive to have a African America President?"

But, the next time we have an African American president it will be almost normal.

Now we need a woman president.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: carpet nuking... on 08/28/2012 19:12:18 MDT Print View

"I agree Fred, if someone bullies you, you have to strike back hard. Let them remember that when they screw with you it will hurt them. Even though it hurts yourself. Don't be a door mat."

Oh Lordy, how I love to hear Americans talk about being bullied. ROTFL.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Re: Funny stuff on 08/28/2012 19:13:16 MDT Print View

"Now we need a woman president"

Michelle for prez!

Steven Paris
(saparisor) - M

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Fresh Air interview with authors of book "The Real Romney" on 08/28/2012 21:05:11 MDT Print View

A good interview:

http://www.npr.org/2012/08/28/160173451/real-romney-authors-dissect-his-latest-campaign

Fred Thorp
(BFThorp) - F
Bullied on 08/29/2012 10:00:37 MDT Print View

Tom

There are people in this world that want to do us or harm. I get pretty sick of people blaming the actions of the US for all the bad apples in the world. Im in favor of more isolationism but gheez, some people just can't seem to get picture. I'm guessing you'd be in favor of going back to a Carter military or less.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Bullied on 08/29/2012 10:03:45 MDT Print View

Fred

There are people in the U.S. that want to create a "boogie man" to justify corporate welfare and distract us while they pick our pocket.

Fred Thorp
(BFThorp) - F
Pick pockets on 08/29/2012 10:38:38 MDT Print View

and corporate welfare. I love that term, corporate welfare.

David Olsen
(oware)

Locale: Steptoe Butte
corporate welfare on 08/29/2012 12:53:10 MDT Print View

"I'll believe corporations are people when Texas executes one."

Justin Baker
(justin_baker) - F

Locale: west coast best coast
Far Right. on 08/29/2012 17:25:18 MDT Print View

What exactly do you guys mean by "far right?" Do you mean facists? Neo-conservatives? Borderline anarcho-capatalist libertarians?

Lyan Jordan
(redmonk)

Locale: Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem
far right on 08/29/2012 17:51:20 MDT Print View

take your pick, far right and authoritarian, or even more further right and authoritarian.
http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2012

John Nausieda
(Meander) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: corporate welfare on 08/29/2012 17:59:23 MDT Print View

As Tom McGuane used to say about the Electric Chair down South. "Proof that God likes Fried Food" or near that.