Subscribe Contribute Advertise Facebook Twitter Instagram Forums Newsletter
Romney/Ryan 2012
Display Avatars Sort By:
Ken Helwig
(kennyhel77) - MLife

Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA
Re: Re: Re: Re: Got on 10/10/2012 16:44:09 MDT Print View

"To me a more interesting question is why NATO backed the Libyan rebels, but won't do anything in Syria?"

Libya is a peripheral actor, geographically, a sideshow if you will. Syria is squarely in the center of the Middle East, and involvement there could very quickly lead to a much wider conflict with the potential to disrupt oil supplies and destablize Iraq in the first instance, and other nations as the conflict continues. It could very easily render our fragile economic recovery stillborn, and push Europe into a disastrous full blown recession. It would also put serious strain on our already depleted military at a time when we are trying to disengage from such debilitating conflicts and shift our attention to Asia, where any potential conflict would be with a serious opponent like China or North Korea."

Yes Tom, well put that is exactly the reason that Nato,or anyone else has not armed rebels or intervene....Funny how this is the correct action, however Romney's vision is the opposite....If elected it will be a continuation of how Bush managed our affairs, which in turn would be like hitting the beehive with a big stick.. There are a lot of angry bees out there that would like to sting us again

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: Re: Re: Got on 10/10/2012 17:35:48 MDT Print View

"SANITY!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you Tom!"

Sanity? Really? You first! No you first! No you first! That's not sanity, my friend, that's just a recipe for tension ever after.....

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Getting - Wrong address - @ Mike, not Doug on 10/10/2012 17:58:13 MDT Print View

""@Tom.
It isn't just an American thing. Every Empire has made the same mistakes, but history just keeps on repeating itself."

I'm well aware of that, Mike. I was addressing the current state of affairs in response to your question, which was not historical in tone. Former empires still in existence as nation states all show a distinct reluctance to go around "getting" people, unless dragged reluctantly into the fray by an imperialistic US seeking a fig leaf; witness the Balkans, Iraq, Libya, to name a few recent examples. Rummy once referred to them collectively as Old Europe and my immediate reaction was that 1000 years of internecine butchery and debilitating colonial wars will do that to nations. I thought it was well articulated in the song I provided a link to: "Johnny, I hardly knew ye". Mark my words, we'll get there ourselves, hopefully soon, or suffer the consequences as we slowly rot from within for lack of money and national will to address serious problems here at home.

I mistook Doug for Mike. I don't know which of them is more insulted, but I'm changing the addressee. The content stands as written. Sorry for yet another of my increasingly frequent "senior moments".

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: Re: Getting - Wrong address - @ Mike, not Doug on 10/10/2012 18:18:20 MDT Print View

"I mistook Doug for Mike. I don't know which of them is more insulted..."

Neither, we'll just share a bottle of nice single malt and laugh.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Liberal media on 10/10/2012 18:21:58 MDT Print View

NBC, CBS, CNN are not liberal, they bend over backwards to "be fair". Mostly they just want ratings. They love a close race because more people will watch. Their Sunday shows have about even number of Rs and Ds

PBS and NPR are very objective - neither conservative or liberal - unless you're partisan one way or the other and object to the other side being told - and they dig down and present the facts like journalists rather than just giving both sides or just one side a turn to talk - but they can get boring

MSNBC has a liberal bias

There are liberal radio people - the old "Air America" - Ed Schultz, Thom Hartmann, Randi Rhodes, Stephanie Miller, Norman Goldman, Alan Combs, Mike Papantonio, Robert Kennedy Jr... - none of them are communist but occasionally more liberal than me but entertaining - 620kpoj.com and 620AM is one place to find them

There are way more "conservative" radio shows all over the place, like Rush, I hate it when hiking in the wilderness because they're all I can find

Brad Fisher
(wufpackfn)

Locale: NC/TN/VA Mountains
Re: Re: Re: Re: Getting - Wrong address - @ Mike, not Doug on 10/10/2012 19:16:07 MDT Print View

""I mistook Doug for Mike. I don't know which of them is more insulted..."

Neither, we'll just share a bottle of nice single malt and laugh."



Hey I'm a single barrel bourbon guy, so can I join in? Or will I be shunned like Dem/Rep do each other?

Just asking.

Brad

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Getting - Wrong address - @ Mike, not Doug on 10/10/2012 19:19:23 MDT Print View

I'm more into beer but I don't mind whiskey, can I join?

Actually, I usually take Everclear 95% alcohol because it's ultra-light. And some lemon juice and sugar cube. Would you call that a Mai-Tai?

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Getting - Wrong address - @ Mike, not Doug on 10/10/2012 19:23:00 MDT Print View

"Hey I'm a single barrel bourbon guy, so can I join in? Or will I be shunned like Dem/Rep do each other?"

C'mon and join the party! Since I'm neither Dem nor Rep, I'll drink with anybody! And if MIke's gonna have a drink with me, obviously he'll drink with anybody too! ;-)

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Getting - Wrong address - @ Mike, not Doug on 10/10/2012 19:23:59 MDT Print View

"Would you call that a Mai-Tai?"

Nah, just, ummmmmmmmm, unappetizing! ;-)

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Getting - Wrong address - @ Mike, not Doug on 10/10/2012 19:25:38 MDT Print View

After a day of hiking in the wilderness, looking out over lakes or mountains, that is about the best drink I can think of...

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Getting - Wrong address - @ Mike, not Doug on 10/10/2012 20:12:40 MDT Print View

"Hey I'm a single barrel bourbon guy, so can I join in? Or will I be shunned like Dem/Rep do each other?"

No worries, Brad. Doug isn't choosy. After all, he spent a week in the hills with me. ;)

James Castleberry
(Winterland76)
Jerry, Confession does not equate guilt on 10/10/2012 20:52:08 MDT Print View

Jerry
A confession is only admitted in court if it is deemed trustworthy. You may consider that confession tape a "slam-dunk" but a lot of people would prefer to see additional evidence. In meantime, there is also the concept of "proportionality". We have now killed more people with drones than died in 9/11. Add to that, what, one million Iraqis, and many thousand Afghanis in a 12-year war? At what point is it enough?
Left/right and liberal/conservative paradigm is false and time to realize that it's two heads of the same beast.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/confession

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Jerry, Confession does not equate guilt on 10/10/2012 21:23:03 MDT Print View

I think that after 9/11 we're justified in taking Bin Laden into custody, because he publically took credit and there was other evidence so he's just not saying crazy things. Maybe he was only peripherally involved. And then, if he resisted arrest with lethal force and we killed him, so be it.

I understand that the Afgans offered to turn him over to a Muslim country for trial. We should have taken that deal. Then Afganistan war would have been avoided.

Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11. Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld are war criminals and should be put into jail.

The drones worry me. Too easy to kill people with no risk to our people, so we'll do it a bunch. Eventually, they'll get p...ed and retaliate some how. And I question the morality of it.

There are two parties to vote for. Democrats are closer to reasonable. If a lot of people speak up, they'll become even more reasonable. More than that is to vote out the crazy Republicans and vote in reasonable ones.

But that's just my opinion.

Too bad after 9/11, with so much sympathy from the world and Middle East people, that Bush didn't agressively push Isreal and Palestine into a peace deal with an independent Palestine that Isreal can live with. If Jimmy Carter had been president I bet this would have happened. Or maybe Clinton or Obama. There is a difference between Republicans and Democrats.

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
Re: Re: Re: Liberal media on 10/10/2012 22:45:01 MDT Print View

Sorry Jerry. You are just dead wrong. There is a heavy liberal bias. You just can't see it.

I'll post wiki since y'all are too lazy to go see for yourself:

A study cited frequently by critics of a "liberal media bias" in American journalism is The Media Elite, a 1986 book co-authored by political scientists Robert Lichter, Stanley Rothman, and Linda Lichter.[23] They surveyed journalists at national media outlets such as The New York Times, The Washington Post, and the broadcast networks. The survey found that most of these journalists were Democratic voters whose attitudes were well to the left of the general public on a variety of topics, including such hot-button social issues as abortion, affirmative action, and g@y rights. Then they compared journalists' attitudes to their coverage of controversial issues such as the safety of nuclear power, school busing to promote racial integration, and the energy crisis of the 1970s. The authors concluded that journalists' coverage of controversial issues reflected their own attitudes, and the predominance of political liberals in newsrooms therefore pushed news coverage in a liberal direction. They presented this tilt as a mostly unconscious process of like-minded individuals projecting their shared assumptions onto their interpretations of reality.

In a survey conducted by the American Society of Newspaper Editors in 1997, 61% of reporters stated that they were members of or shared the beliefs of the Democratic Party. Only 15% say their beliefs were best represented by the Republican Party.[24] This leaves 24% undecided or Independent.

A 2002 study by Jim A. Kuypers of Dartmouth College, Press Bias and Politics, investigated the issue of media bias. In this study of 116 mainstream US papers, including The New York Times, the Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, and the San Francisco Chronicle, Kuypers stated that the mainstream press in America tends to favor liberal viewpoints. They argued that reporters who they thought were expressing moderate or conservative points of view were often labeled as holding a minority point of view. Kuypers said he found liberal bias in reporting a variety of issues including race, welfare reform, environmental protection, and gun control.[25]

Michael L
(mpl_35) - MLife

Locale: The Palouse
Re: Jerry, Confession does not equate guilt on 10/10/2012 22:46:09 MDT Print View

"A confession is only admitted in court if it is deemed trustworthy"

We aren't in court bud.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Re: Liberal media on 10/10/2012 23:55:39 MDT Print View

Ha ha ha Micheal

In the wiki article about media bias, they included "pro government and power bias", "infotainment", "oversimplification", "liberal bias", "conservative bias", "racial bias", etc...

You just copied the "liberal bias" section and didn't include the criticism of that, and you didn't include the other biases including "conservative bias".

There is a strategy by conservatives to accuse the networks of being liberal, so they defensively avoid being liberal. It's called "working the refs".

Diplomatic Mike
(MikefaeDundee)

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
True on 10/11/2012 00:16:42 MDT Print View

A nice bottle of single malt can cure all the worlds ills. :-)

Apart from the stupidly high tax they put on it!

Brad Fisher
(wufpackfn)

Locale: NC/TN/VA Mountains
Re: Re: Jerry, Confession does not equate guilt on 10/11/2012 05:57:44 MDT Print View

"Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11. Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld are war criminals and should be put into jail."


Uh I think we had a vote in Congress authorizing this, so it's going to be a big trail. In no way am I saying it was the right decision to go to war.

Brad

Fred Thorp
(BFThorp) - F
Jerry on 10/11/2012 07:45:38 MDT Print View

"Iraq has nothing to do with 9/11. Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld are war criminals and should be put into jail."

Really...
I won't list all the reasons we should have (Iraq) or how we should have gone about it, but, remember we are tied to the UN. How many times did the UN tell Saddam, "we'll give you one more chance but next time there are going to be consequences". 14? I'm no fan of the UN. I'd like nothing more than to take the building back and let them meet anywhere else but here.

I don't agree with everything Bush did with the economy or the war and I've seen some of his comments about both, and his mistakes, looking back. War Criminals? I don't get the haters. Not directly at you but in general... too much emotion, too little facts, not the best argument.

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Re: Jerry, Confession does not equate guilt on 10/11/2012 07:47:26 MDT Print View

"Uh I think we had a vote in Congress authorizing this"

No, congress and the U.N. authorized military action if Saddam refused inspection to find weapons of mass destruction and some other conditions.

There were inspectors in there that had to be withdrawn immediately prior to the attack and unltimately there were no weapons of mass destruction so there was no justification.

If Bush wanted to attack, he would have had to go back to congress and U.N. and show that Saddam wasn't allowing inspectors.

Not to mention that the "evidence" to congress and U.N. was totally Trumped up (little pun there).

Once again, best not to remind people how bad Bush was, because Romney sounds a lot like him - we don't want to repeat that history.

We better go have that whiskey and argue about football or something - I think it should be banned, like boxing, because you're taking advantage of poor people that have no other opportunity, sort of like "The Running Man" and other fictional stories...