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R S
(rps76) - F
Romney/Ryan 2012 on 08/11/2012 21:35:30 MDT Print View

Who else is voting with me?

R&R2012

Brian UL
(MAYNARD76)

Locale: New England
Re: Romney/Ryan 2012 on 08/11/2012 22:09:36 MDT Print View

obrom

Justin Baker
(justin_baker) - F

Locale: west coast best coast
Re: Romney/Ryan 2012 on 08/11/2012 22:38:20 MDT Print View

Romney is just a flip floppity republicrat.

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Re: Romney/Ryan 2012 on 08/11/2012 23:23:36 MDT Print View



If that were Obama, few would fuss over his birth certificate.

drowning in spam
(leaftye) - F

Locale: SoCal
Re: Romney/Ryan 2012 on 08/11/2012 23:47:18 MDT Print View

Romney has converted me to a Democrat.

Mary D
(hikinggranny) - MLife

Locale: Gateway to Columbia River Gorge
Romney/Ryan 2012 on 08/11/2012 23:53:06 MDT Print View

As far as I'm concerned, it's "A plague on both your houses!" If I can't find a decent third party candidate, I will write in a vote for my dog (the only candidate who stands squarely on all four feet!). (My state will go Democrat no matter how I vote, so it doesn't matter whether or not I even vote.)

There is precedent for this; I believe it was back in the 1950's that a city in Brazil, whose population was dissatisfied with all the candidates, elected their zoo's rhinoceros mayor.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife
Re: Romney/Ryan 2012 on 08/11/2012 23:59:05 MDT Print View

It's the end of the 80 year economic cycle. No side wants to hold the bag.

Lyan Jordan
(redmonk)

Locale: Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem
Brilliant on 08/12/2012 01:10:14 MDT Print View

Don't underestimate the ignorance of the American electorate, lots of people will support Romney and Ron Paul Ryan.

Justin Baker
(justin_baker) - F

Locale: west coast best coast
Re: Brilliant on 08/12/2012 03:39:07 MDT Print View

Ron Paul Ryan? What does that even mean?

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Re: Romney/Ryan 2012 on 08/12/2012 08:12:47 MDT Print View

"It's the end of the 80 year economic cycle. No side wants to hold the bag."

Is it also a 80 year political cycle?

In the 1920s the wealthy had a larger share of the pie. "The Gilded Age". Then there was an economic crash. Then people figured out they were being taken advantage of.

Then things flipped with FDR. People had a "we could do anything" attitude. Programs like the GI Bill paid for people's college education which produced the high tech/computer revolution of the late 1900s.

FDRs first few years in 1930s were touchy. No immediate flip. Sort of like we've experienced so far.

This time there's no WWII that galvanized our opinions. There are cases in history where the pendulum doesn't flip and that society fades.

"May you live in interesting times"

Mary D
(hikinggranny) - MLife

Locale: Gateway to Columbia River Gorge
Romney/Ryan 2012 on 08/12/2012 08:28:25 MDT Print View

Unless the president drops dead (and both candidates look pretty healthy), the vice president has pretty much zero effect politically. He/she is expected to support the president, attend state funerals around the globe and hopefully keep his foot out of his/her mouth. Oh, yes, to vote in case of a tie in the Senate, which rarely happens.

For those who find at least some of Ryan's ideas interesting, the only effect of this selection is to remove him from Congress to a place where he will either be a nonentity (if Romney wins) or out of public life altogether (if Obama wins).

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Romney/Ryan 2012 on 08/12/2012 09:43:37 MDT Print View

"Unless the president drops dead (and both candidates look pretty healthy), the vice president has pretty much zero effect politically"

Choosing Sarah Palin had a large effect

Some people thought she was inexperienced and just a pretty faced zealot

Other people thought she was a bold choice with strong conservative values that would get the woman vote that was behind Hillary

Ken Helwig
(kennyhel77) - MLife

Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA
Re: Re: Romney/Ryan 2012 on 08/12/2012 09:58:25 MDT Print View

Mary, you are wrong about the Vice Pres. Romney is taking on Ryan's economic plan of cutting medicade, changing social security etc. He has a lot of say in this election. This move was to galvanize the far right and Tea Party Members. His choice was significant. Will I vote for those two???? If you put a gun to my head I will

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Romney/Ryan 2012 on 08/12/2012 10:00:52 MDT Print View

"As far as I'm concerned, it's "A plague on both your houses!" If I can't find a decent third party candidate,"

This is my day to disagree with my friend Mary : )

There is a huge difference between the two parties, they want us to think that, get depressed, and not vote

Democrats tried to get through a bill that required that people and corporations that contribute to political speech have to be publically disclosed. We should at least know who's buying off the government. The Rs fillibustered it.

Rs got us into two wars that are a large part of the deficit. Ds "ended" Iraq war (although we're still there but at least much reduced). There is a plan to end Afganistan war. The Libya war was short and somewhat successful. We have avoided an Iran war.

Ds ended "don't ask don't tell". Obama said he was in favor of gAy marriage. Then black religious leaders were forced to do the same.

Obama Care reduced the deficit from Medicare prescription which was another huge part of the deficit.

The Ds are pushing the "Buffet Rule" which would tax at 30% income over $250K - restore a bit of fairness. And eliminating the "Bush tax cuts" for over $250K. And other attempts to restore fairness. This is another part of ending deficit.

The economic collapse was prevented although the recovery is mediocre. It's difficult for the Ds to do more when the Rs say their #1 priority is for Obama not to be re-elected.

Katharina ....
(Kat_P) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Coast
Re: Re: Romney/Ryan 2012 on 08/12/2012 12:01:48 MDT Print View

I am with Mary.

Ken Helwig
(kennyhel77) - MLife

Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA
Re: Re: Re: Romney/Ryan 2012 on 08/12/2012 13:01:20 MDT Print View

If anyone cares.....

http://www.esquire.com/blogs/politics/paul-ryan-romney-vp-pick-11562917#ixzz23H02Kn6U

Or this


http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/08/06/120806fa_fact_lizza

Edited by kennyhel77 on 08/12/2012 13:05:18 MDT.

Brad Fisher
(wufpackfn) - M

Locale: NC/TN/VA Mountains
Re: Re: Re: Re: Romney/Ryan 2012 on 08/12/2012 18:44:32 MDT Print View

IMHO you look foolish trying to support either side. It all comes down to power and control. Neither party is really concerned about making the right decisions to fix the problems. At the end of the day I think we are picking the lesser of the two parties.

I personally will pick the Rep ticket not because of what they are going to do, but because of my concerns with the dems the past 4 years.

1. Obama put together a bi-partism committee to address the budget deficit. By far the best approach to resolving the issue. Didn't react to a single item. Just ignored all the hard work.
2. Has NO interest in addressing entitlement programs.
3. Total lack of leadership. Go ahead and say the Rep House is in the way. A good leader is able to overcome that. If the only way he can become a good leader is to control all of Congress, then anybody can do that.
4. Total lack of transparency (something he promised). Fast and Furious, Intel leaks, etc.
5. Totally anti business unless you are an union business. As a small business owner I live the effects of his policy.
6. Big government is just not better. They have no track record of doing anything right except building a Great Military. If anyone thinks the healthcare act will cost what they say is just being fooled. I will bet you anything that in 20 years the cost will far exceed any estimate they are projecting. Really just think about it. Every government expenditure has a budget associated with it. How many times have they stayed within the budget. Both parties are to blame.
7. He has a strategy to pit the social classes against each other. It is bad to be successful and make any money. BTW what is fair share anyway. How do you determine that number.
8. His campaign strategy is awful. Why do I care what Rommey's tax return looks like? The IRS is responsible for determining if he paid the correct taxes based on the tax law. He is just looking for material to bash him. Why don't he focus on what he is going to do instead of just looking for trash. Chicago politics.

On the flip side:
1. Ryan is often too aggressive with his approach. Needs to take a longer term more measure approach. This concerns me.
2. Calling for no tax increases is not the right approach. As the committee said we should focus on limiting tax deductions which would increase taxes without increasing rates
3. Health care cost need to be addressed and I don't see a plan
4. Some regulation is needed. Glass Act separating banks and investing was a good thing
5. Need an immigration plan. Not for full amnesty plan, but we need to do something
6. Voter Id is not a bad thing, but more needs to be done to in sure people have the ability to get the necessary ID.
7. Need to do a better job of compromise to get things done

Just my two cents. It's America so vote for who you like. However trying to completely defend one party over the other really just makes you look foolish

Brad

jerry adams
(retiredjerry) - MLife

Locale: Oregon and Washington
Re: Romney/Ryan 2012 on 08/12/2012 21:28:05 MDT Print View

I agree, people should vote for who they think is best.

I just hate it when they believe in the propoganda and vote against their own best interest.

I can't help myself - responding to your list : )

"1. Obama put together a bi-partism committee to address the budget deficit. By far the best approach to resolving the issue. Didn't react to a single item. Just ignored all the hard work."

The committee never agreed to anything, it was just more of the Rs and Ds not agreeing to anything. Half of the committee wanted to end the Bush tax cuts which Obama has advocated. Many other things from the committee.


"2. Has NO interest in addressing entitlement programs."

Do you mean Social Security? There's no deficit. In several decades they may have to reduce benefits by 30% or something. But if the economy is better or they make some adjustments then even this won't be required.

Do you mean Medicare and Medicaide? Obama-care reduced the deficit some. Need to do more but they made a start.

Other entitlement programs? Small part of budget so it doesn't make that much difference.


"3. Total lack of leadership. Go ahead and say the Rep House is in the way. A good leader is able to overcome that. If the only way he can become a good leader is to control all of Congress, then anybody can do that."

If the Rs block almost everything and say #1 priority is to make sure he's not re-elected, you can't say it's all Obama's fault.


"4. Total lack of transparency (something he promised). Fast and Furious, Intel leaks, etc."

Fast and Furious was started by Bush, ended by Obama. The AG testified multiple times. They won't release info that's illegal to release. The Rs just want to make something where there's nothing as a political strategy.

Intel leaks - no reason to think Obama did anything, but the Rs do want to investigate anything as a political strategy.


"5. Totally anti business unless you are an union business. As a small business owner I live the effects of his policy."

What effects of Obama policy is adversely affecting you?


"6. Big government is just not better. They have no track record of doing anything right except building a Great Military. If anyone thinks the healthcare act will cost what they say is just being fooled. I will bet you anything that in 20 years the cost will far exceed any estimate they are projecting. Really just think about it. Every government expenditure has a budget associated with it. How many times have they stayed within the budget. Both parties are to blame."

Big government did the GI bill and other programs which educated us which created the high tech computer revolution. Highways. Health care improvements are based on research paid for by big government. Social security is pretty efficient - a lot fewer poverty seniors...

You could also find examples of waste, like $100 military toilet seats and most of the military spending that the military doesn't even need.

Big business can screw things up - Enron, the banks that precipitated the financial collapse,... Other big businesses do good things like maybe Apple Computer.

The solution isn't just saying anything the government does is screwed up so privatize it. That's just a rationalization for political supporters to make a bunch of money.


"7. He has a strategy to pit the social classes against each other. It is bad to be successful and make any money. BTW what is fair share anyway. How do you determine that number."

Like Warren Buffet said "there is a class war and my class has won" (or something like that).

Fair share - the top 0.1% should pay at least 35% of their income in taxes. Corporations should pay a tax of 25% of their income. Other government programs and regulations shouldn't be designed so a few political supporters get super-rich.


"8. His campaign strategy is awful. Why do I care what Rommey's tax return looks like? The IRS is responsible for determining if he paid the correct taxes based on the tax law."

Romney says his business experience will enable him to run the country better.

If his business experience is to exploit loopholes to enrich himself, that's relevant. No one is saying he did anything illegal. Even Rs are saying he should release his tax returns.


"He is just looking for material to bash him. Why don't he focus on what he is going to do instead of just looking for trash."

Trash is saying that Obama was born in Kenya or is a Muslim. Or calling him a "tar baby" and when you're called on it saying that it was referring to a blob of tar but message sent to racists - we're (the Rs) are with you, vote for us. Or calling Obama the most radical socialist/communist that's ever existed. Or saying that he'll take your guns away. Or saying Obama wants to give your teenage daughter an abortion without you knowing about it.


"Chicago politics."

That is more trash talk when you have nothing meaningful to criticize him for.

Ken Helwig
(kennyhel77) - MLife

Locale: Scotts Valley CA via San Jose, CA
Re: Re: Romney/Ryan 2012 on 08/12/2012 21:32:58 MDT Print View

Jerry, that was a great post. I like your insight

David Adair
(DavidAdair) - M

Locale: West Dakota
Re: Re: Re: Romney/Ryan 2012 on 08/12/2012 22:10:23 MDT Print View

Brad, that was a great post. I like that you are rational.