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Rafi Harzahav
(rhz10) - F

Locale: SF Bay Area
food weight per day when using dehydrated meals on 08/02/2012 13:05:43 MDT Print View

Hi,

I remember reading that a rough guideline for the amount of the food to bring on a backpacking trip is around 1.5lbs/day +/- 0.5 lbs. How is this guideline affected by the inclusion of dehydrated meals. Should I approximate the weight of the food after re-hydration when I weight out my daily rations?

Thanks,

rhz

Sarah Kirkconnell
(sarbar) - F

Locale: In the shadow of Mt. Rainier
Re: food weight per day when using dehydrated meals on 08/02/2012 13:19:06 MDT Print View

It is based on dried foods, not after rehydration.

Rafi Harzahav
(rhz10) - F

Locale: SF Bay Area
food math on 08/02/2012 13:37:55 MDT Print View

thanks Sarah!

James Marco
(jamesdmarco) - MLife

Locale: Finger Lakes
Re: food weight per day when using dehydrated meals on 08/02/2012 13:44:27 MDT Print View

Food weight is a large variable. It depends on your metabolism, your hike, the weather, the altitude, and the season (temperture.) The 1.5 poinds per day is a rough figure and is not intended for long term eating, but usually works within a week or two. Depending on the food you bring, it could actually double...upwards of 3 pounds per day. Or you could go the other way with super high density foods, ie around 120-140/oz, and get by with about 1 pound. I usually bring about 1.1 pounds for a week. For ten days, I would bring 1.25, though. For 6 weeks, I averaged about 2.25 pounds per day, and, I really ate when I hit a town...4-5 pounds of piza, subs, chips and sugary drinks, probably 6000 calories or more.

All food weight is considered dry, ie, before rehydrating. Dehydrated vegies, onions, beans are about 100 C/ounce, for example. Fresh fruit/vegies is closer to 50 or 60/oz. Corse this depends on exactly what you bring.

An example day from last week:
1 hersheys bar
2 oz (~1/4) dried sausage (oily and protien)
about 1-2oz (~1/4 cup) jerkey
about 2oz, (~1/3 cup) dried veggies
about 4-6oz (~1/2 cup) rice or pasta
about 1/2oz (1tbs) olive oil
1 nutrition bar
3 oz cocoa mix
4 large tablespoons of coffee
2 packets of oatmeal/some dried apples

This all weighed about 1.1 to 1.2 pounds. It tallies up to about 3100 C per day, mostly highly dense foods. I also bring a vitamin to offset any malnutrition. Hiking and paddling used up about 4000-4300 C per day. For the first three days, I really didn't miss it. After that, I wanted to eat. Not real hungry, but I could have eaten more. I came out after 8 days with 1 nutrition bar, and a bit of olive oil. After also catching and cooking a couple fish. And some foraging for dandelion greens and Cattail shoots (but no mushrooms.)

For longer, I would have brought more, maybe a half cup of vegies, 3/4 cup of pasta. If I was hiking for 10-12 hours, plan on 1.75-2 pounds per day...and so on.

Really there is no one all inclusive answer. In fall I start with 1.5 pounds per day and add for my anticipated activity level. Colder weather requires more calories. 2 pounds per day is about correct for peak bagging in summer...lots of varience.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: food weight per day when using dehydrated meals on 08/02/2012 14:14:04 MDT Print View

You know how we each have a nice digital scale for measuring load weight before a trip?

Wouldn't it be cool if there was a calorie scale that worked that easily? You could just load all of your food onto the top tray, and it would record the total number of calories. [pipe dream]

As it is, I just load food into one of my bear canisters, then weigh the total and subtract the weight of the canister. If it ends up being about 1.5 pounds per day, then I am ready to roll.

--B.G.--

Sarah Kirkconnell
(sarbar) - F

Locale: In the shadow of Mt. Rainier
Re: Re: food weight per day when using dehydrated meals on 08/02/2012 14:34:01 MDT Print View

Lol...yeah, that'd be sweet ;-)

Rafi Harzahav
(rhz10) - F

Locale: SF Bay Area
food weight on 08/03/2012 08:42:27 MDT Print View

thanks for all your responses. I appreciate your insights!

Harald Hope
(hhope) - M

Locale: East Bay
fats on 08/09/2012 12:48:04 MDT Print View

Bob, for at least one item, there is such a thing, olive oil, or most other oils. Those are what, 250 calories an ounce, period?

The more fats you bring, the less weight you carry per day in food, it's pretty simple, since nothing has more calories per ounce that I am aware of.

I made a point last year of watching what my body craved after an 8 day trip, and it was fats. So last longish trip, I took a lot more fats (olive oil, 2oz a day, pemmican, fatty dried meat), walked further every day, for more hours, and came back, magic! not craving fats.

Did end up carrying too much food per day though, it's hard to get the idea of using a lot of fats for energy in terms of estimating the day's food, particularly the meals during the hike. Need to work on that more.

Wish I could find some way to make a spread out of olive oil and something, then I could carry even less weight of food, less bulk too.

Dena Kelley
(EagleRiverDee) - M

Locale: Eagle River, Alaska
Re food weight per day when using dehydrated meals on 08/15/2012 18:39:06 MDT Print View

Thanks for this info- I'm relatively new to UL and was also confused about the use of pounds-per-day of food and whether that was dehydrated or rehydrated weight. Now I know.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: fats on 08/15/2012 19:08:17 MDT Print View

I could never eat two ounces per day of olive oil, even if it does have good fat. I can easily eat two ounces per day of peanut butter, but its fats are not all good.

I'm always seeking something like bread or crackers that I can spread with peanut butter, but it has to be something that is compact and will keep for a week at a time.

--B.G.--

Robert Blean
(blean) - MLife

Locale: San Jose -- too far from Sierras
Re: Re: fats on 08/15/2012 19:37:24 MDT Print View

To each his own, but 1 Tbsp = 0.5 oz, so 2 oz is just 2 Tbsp in hot cereal in the morning and 2 Tbsp into the supper. I do not find that so hard to imagine. If the issue is taste, not oil, use canola oil -- less flavor that olive oil and still healthy.

To me, it is situational -- in the past I have used major amounts of margarine in both breakfast and supper in the winter (think -20F at night), but had no interest at all in doing that three seasons.

Edited by blean on 08/15/2012 20:46:35 MDT.

Jeffrey List
(jlist) - M

Locale: Cape Cod
can you recheck your figures? on 08/15/2012 20:34:20 MDT Print View

"An example day from last week:
1 hersheys bar
2 oz (~1/4) dried sausage (oily and protien)
about 1-2oz (~1/4 cup) jerkey
about 2oz, (~1/3 cup) dried veggies
about 4-6oz (~1/2 cup) rice or pasta
about 1/2oz (1tbs) olive oil
1 nutrition bar
3 oz cocoa mix
4 large tablespoons of coffee
2 packets of oatmeal/some dried apples

This all weighed about 1.1 to 1.2 pounds. It tallies up to about 3100 C per day, mostly highly dense foods."

Are you sure about that? Taking the high end of the weight, 1.2 lbs, this gives an average calorie density of 161 C/oz. Doesn't seem like that food list would average that high. I think the only items with a calorie density higher than that are the chocolate (barely) and olive oil (well over, but there's only 1/2 oz). Sausage and beef jerky are suprisingly low, and all the other items are definitely well under 161 C/oz.

James Marco
(jamesdmarco) - MLife

Locale: Finger Lakes
Re: can you recheck your figures? on 08/15/2012 20:58:21 MDT Print View

The nutrition bar was homemade, some chocolate, some rather tasteless veg oil to thin it out a bit, and a lot of nuts, brazil nuts, pecans, almonds, and a few others. About 2-3 ounces of about 160-170C/oz. Same for the cocoa, pattied with a bit of fried butter (parified), it keeps pretty well as a lump in each packet. 160C/oz seems a bit high, though.... I struggle to hit 140. I had figured this just before the trip, so it could well be incorrect. I did seem to loose about 6 pounds that week...

Added:
OK, I rechecked the numbers. You are correct. I am sorry, the average for that week turns out closer to 2400C/day or around 120-130C/day. I don't know where I got a 3100C number from...I was thinking it seemed high, but I just ignored it. My mistake. I should have rechecked it.

BTW, The dried sausage was extreamly fatty, Boars Head, I think it was. I am going out on a limb and added it in as 130C/oz because of that, I did not have the wrapper around to check. My normal peperoni, Margerita brand, is not that fatty. Adding a 1/4 stick to soup or stew sort of spices it up without bothering with a lot of spices, other than salt. I actually cooked up a trout with a piece in the bottom of my pot...really oily...

The rice is normally a blende of white and black. So, around 110-130C/oz.
The veggies are higher than most expect at around 120C/oz, Most vegtable are not bad when dehydrated ranging from 90 (celery) to 140 dried red lentils. Onion, pepper, green beans, corn, and yellow beans are around 120.

I add a squirt of oil to coca, too. This is parified butter, or fried butter to remove any water, then drained off. I recover it (about half from a pound) when I make it up, it keeps quite well for a long time(never had it spoil on a trip,) but call it two weeks to be safe. Just a squirt in each packet works well. It doesn't really interfere with disolving in hot water and the sugar preserves it from getting rancid. It adds about 240C but I don't figure it, because it is less than a teaspoon. Two weeks is about all I trust the rest of the preserved meats in summer.

Again, my appologies.

Added, note that red lentils are not created equal. Bill S, mentioned that Bobs portion size is 1.5oz. Some is lower or higher depending on shell content as opposed to split and shucked. Average is around 100C/oz for the whole red lentil. Be carefull... gott'a finish packing...

Edited by jamesdmarco on 08/17/2012 10:12:48 MDT.

Greg F
(GregF) - F

Locale: Canadian Rockies
Food weight on 08/15/2012 22:15:20 MDT Print View

I bring 2 lbs a day minus 1lb for no supper the last day and no breakfast and i target about 4.5 calories per gram so I get 4000 calories on 2lbs of food. I am 6'3 210 for reference hiking betwee 16 and 20 miles with 3000 to 4500 ft of gain.

This caloric density allows me to take normal food. My 2lbs look something like this

4 oz nuts
4 oz dried fruit
3 oz cheese
3 oz TVP (dehy soy)
4 oz dried pep sticks (over 5 cals per gram and significantly better than jerky)
3 granola bars
2 packs of oatmeal
4 oz of pasta

Maybe rounded out with some candy or choclate.

Jeffrey List
(jlist) - M

Locale: Cape Cod
Re: can you recheck your figures? on 08/16/2012 19:04:20 MDT Print View

James -- no problem. I'm always looking for new food ideas, and yours are some good ones. Very interesting on the 140 C/oz dried red lentils. Add some olive oil to that and you really have some calories. I assume the lentils are dried after already cooking, so they rehydrate quickly? Is there a brand or do you do that yourself?

James Marco
(jamesdmarco) - MLife

Locale: Finger Lakes
Re: Re: can you recheck your figures? on 08/16/2012 21:07:44 MDT Print View

Red Lentils are just purchased at the store. I think Tops ad them or a while, but I haven't seen them lately. 140/oz is what I remember from them. They cook very fast compared with regular green lentils, about 20 minutes. OK, for just kicking up some forest duff in summer, and setting the pot in a little nest, covered with my hat to make a cozy. Not to good in winter, you really want 10-12 minutes with a legit cozy. Check with Sara K, she said someting about them a few years ago. I mix them in with the rest of the stuff. Generally this is all purchased, though a few items are ordered.
Again, I apologize for my mistake. I thought it was high, but really didn't pay much attention, since 1.2 pounds is OK while canoeing in summer. This time, on the NPT, I will be taking about 11.5 pounds for 8 days or around 1.5 pounds per day, since I will be hiking, not canoeing. Seems to burn a lot more calories.

Matthew DeWitt
(IcecreamStPete)
Re: Food weight on 05/13/2013 09:46:19 MDT Print View

"

This caloric density allows me to take normal food. My 2lbs look something like this

4 oz nuts
4 oz dried fruit
3 oz cheese
3 oz TVP (dehy soy)
4 oz dried pep sticks (over 5 cals per gram and significantly better than jerky)
3 granola bars
2 packs of oatmeal
4 oz of pasta

"



This looks great since I'm 6'2" and 220lbs.

What is your longest distance on this meal plan? Did it get really old?

I love that it's mostly no-cook.

Edited by IcecreamStPete on 05/13/2013 09:46:55 MDT.