SUL in a hammock... Lil' help?
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 Bryce F. (bster13) - MLife Locale: Norwalk, CT SUL in a hammock... Lil' help? on 07/31/2012 08:58:24 MDT Hello Everyone,Gram weenie here looking to keep it SUL (<=5lbs base weight) for 3 season backpacking, but this time with a hammock. I have a Grand Trunk Nano and a 9 x 7 CF tarp (http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=54666).I was wondering if I coud get advise on a few questions...but first some details...My hang calculator:http://www.imageno.com/kxhdn66why97pic.htmlWhat is the max distance between trees do you guys plan for in the NE?I am going for 18 feet.So I figure total Amsteel-blue w/ no ridgeline (will convert to Dynaglide over time, but pressed for time w/ a trip this Friday) will be:18ft - 7.83 ft (length of hammock w/ sag) = 10.1667 / 2 (either side of hammock) = 5.08335 lengths of Amsteel on each end of hammock to attach to trees.Then I need to account for the Amstee-blue I am going to wrap around the tree w/ sticks in between. I figure 3 foot circumference for trees in the NE so add 4 feet to be safe? Then we are up to 9 feet for the lengths of Amsteel connected to both ends of my hammock.I want to use sticks in between the amsteel and the trees to keep them protected, but I'm unsure what knots to use.When ground camping w/ a tarp I almost exclusively use a taut-line or adjustable grip hitch to keep tension on the tarp, but I have not tested if those knots will hold tension with my weight in the hammock. Any advice or experience with that?(I'm not interested in Marlin hitchs, or whoopie slings, or UCRs, etc., I'd like to do this with knots if possible. I' m also pressed for time so knots are most familair to me.)I'm also not sure how using sticks in between the Amsteel and the tree would not fall down. Unless my weight is in the hammock, there is no tension on the Amsteel around the tree. Wouldn't the stick fall to the ground?If the sticks fail to protect the trees I'll look into the next heaviest option.Thanks,Bryce
 Doug I. (idester) - MLife Locale: MidAtlantic Re: SUL in a hammock... Lil' help? on 07/31/2012 09:09:29 MDT If you nail the sticks to the tree they'll stay in place....Kidding! I'm such a kidder.I haven't done what you're trying to do, but it seems to me if you just use sticks that aren't nice and smooth, but instead have knots/smaller 'branches' coming off from them, you'd be able to 'hook' them onto the amsteel so they'd stay in place between the amsteel and the tree without the your weight against the amsteel.
 Bryce F. (bster13) - MLife Locale: Norwalk, CT very good idea on 07/31/2012 09:12:19 MDT That's a very good idea Doug, I'll try to find some sticks with knots or little twigs hanging off them.I gotta see if the adjustable grip hitch or slipped buntline hitch will ~not~ slip under tension with my butt in the hammock using the slippery amsteel-blue 7/64ths line. :o
 Here There (cowexnihilo) - MLife Re: SUL in a hammock... Lil' help? on 07/31/2012 09:54:38 MDT The lengths you're using look similar to what I've been using for the past couple of months, though I'm using whoopie slings, tree straps, marlin hitches and other things you're not interested in, haha. I rarely have problems finding a site that will work, so you should be good to go with those lengths.-David
 Bryce F. (bster13) - MLife Locale: Norwalk, CT NE? on 07/31/2012 10:46:52 MDT Thanks David, I assume you're in the NE?
 spelt with a t (spelt) - F Locale: SW/C PA slippery amsteel on 07/31/2012 10:58:55 MDT I've not gotten any amsteel-on-amsteel friction knot to hold. I'd be really interested in how you make it work, if you do, but honestly I wouldn't count on it. If you're really against using any hardware, a lashing would probably be most secure with the least amount of fuss. You might consider making your tree straps separate pieces of amsteel instead of having the whole length attached to your hammock.
 Bryce F. (bster13) - MLife Locale: Norwalk, CT Re: slippery amsteel on 07/31/2012 11:39:34 MDT Thanks for the info spelt.I'm having trouble visualizing your ideas here.So if a friction knot may not hold, I can follow you with using lashing made out of Amsteel. It would just replace the wide, black webbing in this video, right?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_wrRb03yjQBut then how do you have any adjustability in the suspension to give your hammock more or less sag? (If you have to use a non-adjustable knot to attach to the lashing)Thanks.
 Robert Blean (blean) - MLife Locale: San Jose -- too far from Sierras Re: SUL in a hammock... Lil' help? on 07/31/2012 11:56:25 MDT > When ground camping w/ a tarp I almost exclusively use a taut-line or adjustable grip> hitch to keep tension on the tarp, but I have not tested if those knots will hold> tension with my weight in the hammock. Any advice or experience with that?Have you considered a trucker's hitch instead of a friction knot? I find the trucker's hitch works a lot better for me.
 Kevin Babione (KBabione) - MLife Locale: Pennsylvania SUL in a Hammock on 07/31/2012 12:11:15 MDT Bryce,I hammock throughout PA and have a couple of thoughts and suggestions:- Any knots you put in your Amsteel lines will likely be so tight after you've spent a night in the hammock that you won't be able to undo them in the morning. That's why whoopie slings are so popular - you can adjust them with each setup- I'm pretty sure a taut-line hitch isn't going to hold your weight- I think your estimate of a 3-foot circumference is too small. A 1-foot diameter tree will have a 3.14-foot circumference. Remember that you have to take the bark and the diameter of your sticks into account as well. I carry a 6-foot and an 8-foot strap and use the Marlin Spike hitch. I've found, at least in PA, that I need the extra two feet occasionally because I want to use a big tree for one of my supports. Most of PA was clearcut at the turn of the 19th century so the majority of the trees where I hike are about 100 years old - I'd guess that most are 18-24" in diameter about 6' from the ground where I put my strap.I'm not sure why you're not interested in whoopie slings and the like, but here's what I'd suggest:- Definitely have one piece of Amsteel (say 8' long) for each tree. Put a fixed loop in one end that you can pass the other end through as you put it around the tree. I'd still suggest a Marlin Spike Hitch for the free end of the tree strap (you can use a solid stick as the "spike" to save weight). This gives you a knot-free way to adjust your hang. Also - since you're planning to use a series of sticks between the Amsteel and the tree to protect the tree you might want to consider bringing a 1/2" binder clip that you could put on the Amsteel where the line comes through the loop to hold it in place when you're setting up. Also - check the tree carefully when you're packing up in the morning to see if the Amsteel cut into it at all - I went to straps because I found that I needed 20+ sticks to keep the rope off the tree bark. It just became too much of a pain!- For your hammock I'd do a fixed-length piece of Amsteel (say 3' long) with a loop at the end to go over the Marlin Spike Hitch.This should give you a setup that allows for trees from 14-18 feet apart that are anywhere from 8" to 24" in diameter.When hiking by yourself you can keep going to find the "perfect" trees. When with others, especially if they're ground-dwellers, you might not find the perfect setup within a reasonable distance from them so you need some more flexibility than what you originally described.