Dear Friends,

I am a new member from Turkey.This is my first message hello to everyone.My questions is,

-My tent's poles are 8.5mm Fiberglasses.I went to a camp to high altitudes and the weather was stormy and i saw that my poles are not strong enough for extreme conditions.Now i want to make my own poles myself.I found some tube sellers but i can not be sure if i can buy and use theese alloys or not for that.In Turkey they generally sells
6013, 6060, 6061, 6063, 6082 and 7075 alloys.I am thinking to use 10-11mm tubes (1-1.5 mm wall thickness).So this is my question

Can i use one of theese tubes to do it, if yes, which one you adcise me?And why?What is difference between theese alloys?

Sorry for my poor english.Thanks for everything already now.Have a nice day.

Edited by leche on 07/29/2012 03:31:01 MDT.

Easton makes poles that are 7075

Small poles are about 9 mm with about 0.65 mm walls

Big poles are 16 mm with 1 mm walls

How big is your tent?

It is a 3+1 person tent.The tent has 3 poles.2 poles are 8.5 mm fiberglass.The other one is 7.9 mm.The tent is a dome and inner tent is 210cm x 210cm (6.88 foot x 6.88 foot) outer tent is 220cm x 420cm (7.21 foot x 13.77 foot).


This is the photo of the tent

That doesn't look like a lightweight tent so it must not matter how heavy the poles are?

Then I'd have a little bit bigger poles like 10 or 11 mm.

If you take straight poles and try to assemble the tent, I don't think that will work, the poles will collapse. You need to pre-bend them in some sort of a tube bender. Then when you assemble the tent, just bend them a little more.

I had some tubing bent at polesforyou.com. They have these plywood jigs. Maybe two foot diameter circle. Clamp the jig into place. There's a metal loop that keeps the tent pole against the jig. Then bend the pole so it's against the jig which will keep it from collapsing.

Bend the poles some. Try assembling the tent and see if the poles are bent enough. If not, go back and bend them some more.

Thanks for the help.But i do not understand it completely.What does it mean to bend a tube?Is it a thing like this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUrHBIYLzG0

If it is,it means that they are crooked even if i do not attach them on the tent , right?

I thought poles are always straight when we do not attach them on the tent.

Note:By the way, i do not think to use the pole as one piece.I think to cut them and join when i use by a system like pressfit

Edited by leche on 07/29/2012 09:43:25 MDT.

Yes - good video - that's a good way to bend aluminum tube

Or, rather than bending around your stomach or knee, you can bend around a circular piece of plywood about two feet in diameter and then you don't need to fill tube with some substance to keep it from collapsing.

If you don't do it correctly, the tube will collapse.

With aluminum poles, if they're straight, and you put them on tent and bend them into that shape, they will probably collapse, but you could try it

polesforyou.com and http://www.questoutfitters.com/ sell Easton Poles that are 7075 aluminum, and come in either 18 or 26 inch lengths. You can buy either just tube, or a piece that as a slightly smaller diameter tube inside one end, that sticks out, so you can assemble several pieces into one longer piece when you set up tent.

look at quest website

So i do not understand a point.The poles what we buy as tnt poles from brands are straight normally.We prepare them and put on the tent.And they bend.So why they can be used as straight and the other one what i want to make doesn't?I mean what is the difference between them?

I thought if i use the same alloys which are used by pole brands, there was no problem to use it, and i could use them like normal tent poles.

I was thinking to make them like this video, but i would use 10mm tubes and 1mm wall thickness

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ku_oykwLvs

Edited by leche on 07/29/2012 11:22:14 MDT.

If you can use the poles without pre-bending, fine

If the tube collapses (or kinks) then you have to pre-bend

Video is good. Use aluminum instead of wood dowel - good. Might be hard to find aluminum that will fit inside the other piece of aluminum with the right tolerance. Too big and it won't fit. Too little and it will wobble. But if it wobbles a little doesn't make that much difference. The ones from polesforyou.com and quest are just convenient, and it has a picture so you can see what it looks like.

Thanks for all of your helps.I will try and see what i can do. =). I think to use some strong epoxy adhesives to stick little parts to poles, do you think does it work?

Edited by leche on 07/29/2012 14:47:41 MDT.

Epoxy should work but I don't really know

I think you will successfully make poles

And theese are the informations of the tubes what i want to make poles,

6061 - T6 Aluminum tube

Yield Strength = 386-607 MPa ( About 55.962-88.003 Psi)
Tensine Strenght= 214-276 MPa (About 31,026-40,014 Psi)
Stiffness = 95

So What do you think about theese tubes?Are they eligible to use as poles?

No idea

probably one alloy will allow slightly smaller poles for the same strength which is only important if you want to get the lightest weight possible poles

To make poles that will bend and not break, you will need to do a few calculations to determine the stress load. The stress will be determined by the tube diameter, the wall thickness and the radius of curvature (the radius of the curved pole). Additionally, you will need to add in a safety factor due to wind loads pushing you tent sideways. There are a number of factors involed so I would do some research before ordering tubing. Best regards - Jon

Youu might start here just so you know what you are getting into.

http://emweb.unl.edu/NEGAHBAN/Em325/11-Bending/Bending.htm

Edited by jonfong57 on 07/29/2012 18:53:28 MDT.

Thanks for helps.I will think theese situations.But i don't understand a point yet.For example, Easton company uses 7075-T9 tubes to make poles.So what is the difference between them and the other tubes i think to buy?

If i buy 7075-t9 to make it, how it would collapse although the easton poles what are produced by same material wouldn't?

So if they are same materials, why easton poles doesn't brake or collapse, but the others i think to buy do?

Edited by leche on 07/30/2012 02:03:40 MDT.

You are trying to add stronger poles to your tent. Stronger poles will be stiffer. If they are too stiff when you try to get them into position they could collapse. If that is the case you can pre-bend the tubes so that they will work for your application. Very few large aluminum tent poles (larger than 10 mm) are not pre-bent. Tents with completely straight poles are usually smaller diameter.

If you have an engineering background, I posted some tent pole analysis equations in the DIY forum. I am not a tent pole designer, but my understanding is very little calculations go into most companies tent pole design. Most poles are designed based on experience.

The differences between different designations of aluminum are differences in composition (none of them are pure aluminum) and differences in how the materiel was treated (annealed, cold worked). Most 6xxx and 7xxx series aluminum's are pretty similar. The dash designation (-T6, -T9) tells how it was treated and can play a significant role in how well it will work for your application. As others have mentioned, the best idea is try to get material that other companies use for their tent poles and pay particular attention to what is after the dash.

Dear Ben Hayes,

Thank you very much for the informations.Everything is visible now for me.With all respect i just need to ask one more question.I have done some research.And i saw that, in here (turkey) it is really hard to find some poles which are made by 7xxx serie materials.I think there is no much of request from the buyer to buy in Turkey.So generally they do not produce it.Whereever i made a interview said that they have some tubes like i wanted made by 6xxx series.the thinnest tube made by 7xxx has 25mm diameter.So if i want to buy some tubes, they should be made by 6xxx series.And i am not sure the resistances of them in regular or stormy weather.So this is the question,

What do you think about using 6xxx series as poles for the tent?Could they be weak for it?

Edited by leche on 07/31/2012 05:04:16 MDT.

I am not a materials expert, so don't put too much weight in my advice. My understanding is that 7xxx series aluminum tends to be much stronger than 6xxx series aluminum. Comparing two typical materials here:

http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=1b8c06d0ca7c456694c7777d9e10be5b&ckck=1

http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=4f19a42be94546b686bbf43f79c51b7d

It looks like the yield strength (the stress at which the material begins to deform) is about twice as much for 7075-T6 compared to 6061-T6 (503 MPa vs. 276 MPa). That means you would need thicker, heavier tubes.

A 6061-T913 aluminum seems to be a bit closer to 7075-T6:

http://www.matweb.com/search/DataSheet.aspx?MatGUID=0f6b9e4702884eadbe6a8450cf89a925

Also, I should note, I tried looking around to see what tent manufacturers use and I had a hard time finding specifics. I am sorry I can't give you a definite answer, but I don't really have the experience in this area.

I believe Easton poles (and similar ones from other manufacturers) are heat-treated to improve their strength and resilience. You probably won't get the same performance assembling poles from stock tubing. But you probably will be able to make poles that are stronger and stiffer than fiberglass ones.

If you don't have experience working with and bending metal tubing, be prepared to make some mistakes and ruin some tubing before you get it right. However, I admire your desire to improve your tent by making your own poles and wish you luck. I hope you succeed and look forward to hearing how it works out.

That said, I'm not sure any poles will make your tent strong enough for mountaineering conditions. Dome tents intended for mountaineering all use geodesic designs, with at least 3 or 4 poles for the main tent body that cross in multiple places. This creates a much stiffer structure than a simple two-pole design for the main tent body. The fact that your tent has a number of well placed tie-outs for guylines may mitigate the problem.

Edited by FogMountain on 08/01/2012 23:03:56 MDT.

Thank you very much everyone.If i try to make them, i will share the result with you.

BTW, they do make conectors that have are curved. You could use these to connect the pole sections to give the overall pole a "pre-bent" curve.