Yes or No?

I've heard it said that backpacking is a sport by several people, mostly here at BPL within the forums. What do you think? Does it matter? If it is sport to you, then why? If you're adamantly opposed to it qualifying as sport, then explain. Or is this some silly UL backpacking vernacular and nothing else?

UL backpackers can be an occasionally competitive fringe group, whether that is in boasting of newly acquired base weight, number of grams shaved from a mini Bic lighter, specifying the daily mileage on their last multiday, laying out training/conditioning regiments for the backpacking "season", or announcing an attempt at a fastest known time on a given long trail.

There are occasionally, under certain circumstances, elements of "sport" in backpacking, but does this qualify it as a sport?

Personally I don't. But then I have a limited definition of "sport" so maybe that's just me.

I place an emphasis on needing physical prowess or competitive nature, or team organization. And usually a combination of them.

I also don't consider hunting, bowling, poker, or fishing as sport.

Yes and No.

My occasional foray into the hills with a 6 pack+ of beer, a bunch of food, and a child or a friend hardly qualifies as sport.

On the flip side, I've had days backpacking that were harder than running the L.A. Marathon was. So that's sport (I guess...).

But it always does make me laugh a bit when I think about how serious we can get about gear and technique and "training" and all the finer points of walking, eating, and sleeping in the wilderness. At times I wonder if this is in proportion to how soft we are becoming. I reckon an average American homesteader in the early 1800s or Comanche Indian 12 year old would be tickled pink by our preparations for "roughing it" and "working hard".

Reading about John Muir's childhood certainly gave me a little perspective on why the guy might have been so ecstatic to sleep for days on end on top of boulders or pine boughs with little bedding and such a nonchalant attitude: There was nobody there to yell and make him get up at 4AM and start digging a well, plowing a field, or go to church! Comparatively, roaming the Sierra at his own pace must have felt a bit like the easy life.

Edited by xnomanx on 07/26/2012 08:01:38 MDT.

I think that by definition a sport is an "athletic competition." That's why poker fails- not athletic. And that's why hiking fails- not a competition. If it's a competetion then it's a "race" not hiking per se, a la the Eco Challenge. So it makes sense to me to say that a hiker is an athlete but not a sportsman. Does that make sense? (And I think that the etymology of calling hunters "sportsmen" is different, having something to do with "sporting prey", so I'll overlook that one. Otherwise I'd agree that it isn't an athletic competition. Neither is pro-bass fishing.)

Just my $0.02.

Edited by acrosome on 07/26/2012 08:47:54 MDT.

for most backpacking (and probably for the majority of us) I'd have to say no- not a "sport", BUT when I read about FKT attempts, multi-day adventure racing and the like- then I'd have to say most certainly yes

I'm not overly competitive (that wasn't always the case :)), but I do like to read accounts of folks pushing the envelope in the great outdoors. I definitely think some of their techniques, gear selection/modification can have a positive trickle down effect for the rest of us; really not so different than sports car racing advances

btw Eugene can't quite tell from you new avatar, but are you now sporting a mustache? :)

Mike

this issue totally depends on the definition of " Sport ".
since I have not given a lot of time to this definition, what follows is a bit off the cuff.

I suppose sport involves some level of competition. But does competition against oneself qualify ? such as personal FKT's ?

If personal FKT's qualify, then much of fastpacking qualifies. but not all backpacking is fastpacking. slow packing as sport ? only if you are competing for the casual award.

more on my definition of sport :
1. I don't think sport requires teams.
2. I don't view simply exercising as "sport".
3. have not thought enough about it to say if, or how much, physical activity must be present to qualify as a "sport", i.e. competitive running-yes, bowling-maybe, car racing-hmmm, chess-hmmm
-----

Edited by asandh on 07/26/2012 10:01:17 MDT.

Yeah. I think as they gain popularity and attention FKT and endurance/adventure races will qualify for me for sure. They already would in my narrow definition if they weren't stll do fringe.


Edit. I don't think it has to be team if it really has a high level of physical prowess and competition. Races (not car) are the purest form IMO. Straight up speed. Or speed and endurance. Love it.

Long distance FKTs are very pure IMO. It doesn't have to be against others at the same time. Racing the clock works for me. My main caveat is that the level of competition isn't there yet. When u see such huge drops in times you know it is a developing sport still.

Edited by mpl_35 on 07/26/2012 10:08:24 MDT.

I don't view hiking as a sport at all. It can be an athletic event if I focus the trip to push my limits either physically or mentally. A casual 10 mile hike to camp wouldn't qualify in my eyes as either a sport or athletic event. I also view record attempts as much as an endurance event as an ultra, certainly the preparations, sacrifice and physical and mental toughness puts it in the same camp.

This is pretty simple, really.

To qualify as a sport:

1. You must have uniforms

2. You must have cheerleaders. They don't necessarily need to be all that attractive, but female cheerleaders must wear skimpy outfits, male cheerleaders must wear slacks and polos. Sorry, them's the rules.

3. There must be lots of sweating going on.

So while backpacking often has 3, and sometimes, weirdly, has 1, it doesn't have 2, so no sport.

Likewise, while fat guys in the stands looking at cheerleaders often incur 3, and 2 is, by its nature, involved, they generally don't have 1, so no sport either. Sorry fat guys.

Yes!

It is settled- Doug has solidified the status of backpacking henceforth.

But a fat guy might be sitting by a trail wearing his uniform, watching a team of cheerleaders hike bye. And sweating.
But no. Backpacking is mainly a mind game.

I don't consider backpacking as a sport but as a hobby. IMHO you can be a average athlete and be very successful at backpacking. Andrew Skurka is a excellent athlete and I don't think anyone in our community will tell you different. That guy is amazing but is he a long distance walker with stamina or is he just a little crazy? Skurka is "Sportsmen" for sure but what is the definition of Sport? "Back in the Day" I played some sports and I have carried over my stamina and strength in my past sports to my hobby. The JMT: Walking 15 to 20 miles a day, carrying a pack that ways 30-40 lbs takes stamina and strength. I was only competitive with myself and I was on vacation, the best vacation I ever took. Backpacking is a hobby IMHO.

Even though I often set mileage, speed, and weight goals, I wouldn't consider backpacking to be a sport. Too many other factors play into it. It is the way I explore new places, relax, adventure, re-center, test myself, experience the natural world, etc

I run more than I backpack and self-identify as a runner, but I consider this my sport. If I couldn't run, I would probably find similar outlet in biking, swimming, or something else to maintain fitness. If I couldn't backpack, I would have to find a way to drag myself into the backcountry to reconnect with nature periodically. I consider it essential to the way I relate to the world and find my place in it.

Edit- should have known Doug would find a way to put this thread on track

Edited by Ike on 07/26/2012 11:14:59 MDT.

Sport, no way.
You have to cross a line between trail running and hiking to not be a sport.

A 100 miler could be used entirely on a trail you are hiking but those running are not carrying anything with them.

So if I have nothing on my back and do a route faster than anyone over a trail then I would say that would also be considered a sport.

I dabble with FKT's all the time. I'll focus 3 months of training for an FKT, however, when I start that attempt I am carrying everything I need to completed that trail and am essentially hiking, just very fast.
When I go Unsupported I feel that I am even doing a more pure hike than others do when they resupply.
I still have to hike every single step that you have to even if I am doing in one day what you will do in 5 or 6.

the other thing is usually my regular hiking is very quick and long days.
This is just the way I am. It has nothing to do with making it into a sport though.
It's still pure enjoyable hiking.

To be a sport, there has to be either a record time, a race, or an organised event with a 'GO'. No?

so ... it all boils down to the definition of that nebulous term "sport".
everyone seems to have their own personal, yet vague, definition.

aside from :
1. uniforms
2. cheerleaders
3. sweat
what other criteria are mandatory to call something a sport ?

I vote competition, even self competition. although it can be a bit gray just what competition is. (a major reason to accept self competition is because in reality it does not exist. theoretically there is, or will be, someone else doing the exact same thing competing against himself, and you can/will always compare yourselves).
this is one reason to accept fastpacking and FKT as Sport, as long as you wear a uniform.

no to the team requirement.

no to the official "organized" start line requirement.

no to the running v.s. walking requirement - walking is in the Olympics.

finally - some things can be sport or non-sport depending on the intent and motivation.

Edited by asandh on 07/26/2012 12:26:27 MDT.

Pretty sure it's a hobby, or a game where the object is to get back home.

Nope...if it were a sport, it would be called adventure racing/ultra running.

Backpacking is just walking outdoors and staying out overnight or multiple nights.

I am secure enough in myself to say that I am a UL Dork who weights his stuff on a postal scale to obsess over how to save a quarter ounce of weight so that when I am homeless on the trail, that I am as light as possible.

Call it a hobby, passion, activity, but not a sport.

My ego does not require me to call backpacking a sport...the enjoyment I received from backpacking is not enhanced or diminished if people call what I do a sport or something else.

However, if I have to wrestle a bear each night to sescure the best campsite, well....maybe we could call it a sport.

Do I get a say in who my cheerleaders will be while I am wrestling the bear?

If I do, I can tell you that their outfits will be made of white Cuben. :)

-Tony

Armchair athletes may get confused on this question when in a lot of cases hiking equipment is purchased in sporting goods stores or sporting goods departments of larger department stores.

These same "athletes" are equally confused by the term outfitter. In their confused state they would expect us to emerge from an outfitter wearing a new suit.

Hiking is my hobby bordering on obsession. Why else would I have a closet filled with 7 packs, 3 rolls of braided mason's line, 1 canister stove with a 1/2 dozen fuel canisters, 3 cook pots, a titanium spoon, numerous dehydrated meals, multiple cozies, 3 tents, four dozen or more stakes, 3 sets of trekking poles, my prized plastic trowel, hats, bandannas, buffs, base layers, wind shirts, rain gear, compass, trail guide, 1 flat tarp, 1 poncho tarp, 2 quilts, 1 sleeping bag, 4 sleeping pads and too many alcohol stoves to count with Everclear, Heet and 91% Isoproryl for fuel all on hand.

My computer has 72 bookmarks geared towards hiking.

I also have enough MYOG supplies and tools to choke a mule. And yes my sewing machine stands ready with Gütermann Tera Tex 50 100% polyester thread.

I shop in auto parts stores for tent seam sealer. To most people a yo-yo is a toy. To me a yo-yo is walking a trail from beginning to end and back again. I keep many of my most valued posessions inside of a trash compactor bag. Some people see a recycle bin ready to go out to the curb but I see water bottles and alcohol stoves. Some people see construction trash and I see ground sheets. When I drink a beer I have to force myself not to fashion a stove out of the can.

I tear off perfectly good zipper tabs to install string in their place. None of my hiking clothes have labels to tell me what size they are.

I read test results of whistles.

I weigh everything in grams and ounces.

This is my favorite. I pay someone whom I have never met before to take me out to a place that I have never been before, let them drop me off and wave good-bye while saying thank you as they leave me in the middle of nowhere with a huge smile on my face. ;-)

Party on,

Newton

Edited by Newton on 07/26/2012 17:42:45 MDT.

I look at backpacking as an outdoor activity that happens to be an athletic activity

Something like ultras are athletic events that (often) takes place outdoors.

Hope that makes a sense...at least it does to me. ;)

I think for something to be a "sport" there has to be some kind of rules or regulations, and there also have to be some kind of spectators watching.

So in my opinion someone going out for a 3 mile jog is not practicing a sport. It's more recreation, or exercise.

But if you are running in a competition, it would be sport.

If you don't keep score, and /or it's not timed, it's not a sport. And a score from judges doesn't count.

No and it sometimes irritates me when new folks refer to it as a sport because I think they have the wrong idea of why one would go out into the backcountry and walk around. Sure the endurance folks are using backpacking equipment and techniques but they are not out there to necessarily enjoy their surroundings but trying to get from A to B as fast as possible.

Like any past time, hobby or recreation folks always take the details to the farthest degree because they are really into it and want to explore all angles which is part of the enjoyment they/we get from it. Just because some one messes with their Bic lighter doesn't make it like fine tuning a tennis racket unless you are an endurance racer and then it might make a difference in your time but that again is different.

Yesterday I was finishing up an overnight trip and on my way back to Tuolumne Meadows south of Donahue pass and I passed a group of 12-15 backpackers travelling southbound on the JMT/PCT. They were all wearing the same shirts, pants, hats. They all had the exact same packs and even the same trekking poles. I didn't pay attention to their footwear. It wasn't typical hiking attire either, the clothing was very technical looking. Lots of pockets and such. It was really strange. They were obviously a team of some sorts what their goal was I don't know, but they looked pretty sporty.
To me backpacking isn't a sport, just something I enjoy.

In order for an activity to be a sport, a ball or puck must be involved. Backpacking, like cycling, swimming, skiing, sailing, etc are "Means of transportation".

Edited by Adox on 07/26/2012 18:34:20 MDT.

hmmm- what does the dictionary say "An activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others."

I'd say multi-day FKT attempts and multi-day adventure racing fits that bill pretty easy; I'd also go out on a limb and say a three day jaunt with the wife probably doesn't :)

"I'd also go out on a limb and say a three day jaunt with the wife probably doesn't :)"

I'd say that depends on the wife.......

'"I'd also go out on a limb and say a three day jaunt with the wife probably doesn't :)"

I'd say that depends on the wife......."


I can always count on you for a ( much needed) laugh :)

OK, there have been several good comments/definitions on this thread. My personal take is that it is simply a walk in a splendid park, maybe with a sort of zoo thrown in, and a good time to hang in solitude in a stellar place by myself, or with a friend or two. Let's not overthink this--it's just us, hiking, being together, and everyone gathering water and wood, doing their part, and staring at stars and watching out for bears. This is not really rocket science, nor is it a sport. It's simply a joy. I call it recreation. And I'm glad to be part of a BPL group that likes to do it, however he/she chooses to pursue it, by any definition of just what it is.

When I ride a bike, I don't intend to ever compete, but is bike riding a sport? Is it sport if and only if I am in competition? Is it a sport if I am in training for competition?

What about jogging? Isn't that just slow running which is what you do when in a foot race? How fast do I have to jog/run before I am being sporty? Must I have a competitor or a record time to beat?

Since FKT backpacking (or call it unsupported multiday foot racing if you like) is a sport by the dictionary definition, at what level do I begin to call my hikes "sport"? I think it is when I start pushing my limits and become concerned with performance - speed, altitude/hour, etc..

What about the progression from hiking to class 5 climbing? There are plenty of climbing competitions so that is indeed a sport. At what point does a hike become difficult enough to be considered part of the sport?

And what about different leagues of ability? If I break my personal best, no matter the world record, is it a sport even if I have no intention of competing with the FKTs?

Is peak bagging a sport?

I think hiking can be a sport if you make it so.

Hello Nathan,

"I think it is when I start pushing my limits and become concerned with performance - speed, altitude/hour, etc.."

I enjoy doing this on almost all of my hikes.
Even the slowest hikers complain about performance - speed, and altitude in their posts.

What's to say there's a difference between having 50 pounds on your back moving at a slow rate but still having your heart rate at 160 and having 10 pounds on your back moving very efficiently at triple the rate of speed while having a heart rate of 160.

I call it UL Hiking.

This is the whole reason to take the weight off for me.

I am willing to bet that my average heart rate is the same throughout the day as someone overly exerting themselves with a monster pack on.

Still, only hiking, definitely not a sport.

Hello Aaron,

I would've thought that with your dabbling in FKTs would see it as sport, at least when in pursuit of the records. I feel a distinct difference between hiking for performance and hiking for all the usual reasons.

Hope to be on a trail with you sometime!

Nate

This was a nice thread to read. I like the notion of sport as competing against others, on a somewhat organized and official basis. I am hard pressed to think of any sport that doesn't do this, so it's a useful definition.

Keep in mind, prior to our car/horse buggy days, walking was pretty much it, and walking is what our bodies are designed to do. So backpacking is just doing what is most fundamentally natural for the human body. Now of course, there are some people who have to force totally natural activities into some more agro box so they can justify it to their hyper competitive personalities, so I like to leave adventure racing to them, and enjoy the trails and natural environment while they go elsewhere.

In a sense, ultralight backpacking at its best is actually returning us to the base weights that were used by travelers long ago in general, barring actual moves and so on, and that's what it feels like to me now walking with that weight, pretty natural, not weird, not a struggle, like a 50 pound pack felt.

If you think native americans, they had massive networks of trails, and they walked around on them, that was how you got around back then, and that's really all we are doing now when we backpack. Then, when they wanted to compete against each other, they had sports, just like we have today, and the difference was the organized competitive aspect, ie, there are winners and losers in sports, runners up, and so on.

I've done sports, bike racing, and so on, those are totally different, I'm competing against others there, and the point of the training is to compete successfully, or as successfully as I could. Training for backpacking has some of the same elements to me, but it's just taking walks in the end, albeit a bit more vigorous and focused than I'd normally do.

I really like the feeling of walking all day, but that's because that's so natural for the body, it's what it's built for. Driving and all that is the weird unnatural activity.

Thanks Harald,

Like most through hikers I know say, in the end it is just walking.

No.

Sports, are broadly categorized as athletic based competition whereby you compete against others, with a defined winner.

Backpacking is an outdoor pursuit.

There are "sports" which encompass some of the same skill set as backpacking. Ultramarathons, adventure racing teams, etc.

It's a "sport" in the sense that the better you condition yourself for it the more you will enjoy it, just like skiing.

And like recreational skiing, it's not (usually) competitive.

Good backpackers are good athletes. You backpack like you train.

That's the beauty of backpacking for me; it is what you make of it. Perhaps that's a bit of a cop out to the question, but if you're searching for an FKT or a personal best daily mileage, I think you've made it a sport for yourself. Otherwise, it's just a nice little non-competitive romp in the woods. It's a user-defined experience.

I do think that all the sport-like aspects of backpacking which the user can define are inherently speed based though.

Actually, I just remembered, I chuckled to myself about participating in the first backpacker's triathlon a few weekends ago, on a trip in Alpine Lakes Wilderness, WA:
1) Swimming - avoid drowning in a severe rainstorm through the night,
2) Running - wake up late, tear down camp as quickly as possible, then run down the mountain to the trailhead, preferably toppling down a particularly steep section of the trail for expedience,
3) Biking - frantically search through the woods trying to remember where you stashed your bike near the trailhead, then pedal like a bat out of hell to the bus stop 10 miles away.

(Carless in Seattle, I had thrown my bike on a bus two afternoons earlier and ridden out to North Bend, WA then biked 10 miles to a trailhead for adventures. I was in such a hurry that morning because the last bus out of North Bend back to Seattle until later in the day left at 7:30 AM)

That's hilarious Tyler. No doubt your adventure required some degree of athleticism. I suppose then that Alaska Wilderness Classic participants could be considered backcountry quadrathletes (bike, hike, packraft, swim)? ;-)


I think Harold makes some excellent points and I agree with his personal assessment, it is more in line with my thoughts on the matter. I do disagree slightly with the notion that those who take it to a different level (FKT'ers, adventure racers, etc.) are in some way entertaining some "agro" urges. For some people, pushing the body to its physical limit by means of competition is as natural as getting out for a stroll to smell the flowers- no ego required.

Edited by Eugeneius on 08/09/2012 10:21:27 MDT.

So a sport to me is a recreational physical activity in which all participants compete for a common goal.

Such that, backpacking is a sport if and only if everyone is competing for a goal. Now 'everyone' can be a subset of the whole backpacking community, much like the Olympic Rowers are a subset of all rowers - competitive or casual. Rowing by itself is a recreational activity. But a group of rowers in a designated competition is a sport.

Some people argue chess is a sport. It's nationalized and winners are awarded titles. But it's not exactly a physical activity. Korea nationalizes their Starcraft online game competitions as a sport. Popular 'players' can make a lot of money. But chess and Starcraft competitions are gaming competitions. The act of participation in one of these in a casual sense is to 'play a game'. Whereas to casually kick the soccer call around is still a recreational activity.

So if NOLS or Sierra Club began an Ironman competition of sorts along stretches of the PCT, JMT, CDT, or AT and the first backpacker reaching the end would win a prize... would that be a sport? It's not officially recognized but by my definition it would be (albeit an informal one). I know a bunch of people compete for the fastest time through the JMT. There are unwritten rules and regulations - you can't take shuttles or bypass loops using shortcuts, and there is still some debate if the start/end is at Whitney Portal or Whitney Summit. Nevertheless, it's a recreational physical activity among a group of competitive individuals who work towards a common goal.