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Odd numbered crews
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Doug Parker
(BuffaloSkipper) - F

Locale: Gulf Coast
Odd numbered crews on 07/09/2012 08:47:03 MDT Print View

How does Philmont (rangers) resolve when faced with an odd number in a crew? For instance, if there were 2 adults and 7 scouts who showed up (without tents), how would the ranger get the crew to reconcile the odd man out?

Mark Rash

Locale: North Texas
5 Tents on 07/09/2012 11:31:26 MDT Print View

I'm pretty sure they would issue you 5 tents and one person would sleep by themself. That's a lot of weight to carry for just one person. I would try and find a lightweight solution for one.

Edited by markrvp on 07/09/2012 11:32:02 MDT.

Dan Lee
(scoutbuff) - MLife

Locale: Colorado
ODD NUMBERED CREWS... on 07/09/2012 14:01:29 MDT Print View

We had nine boys and three adults. Since each of the adults had a son along, these three boys had the opportunity to spend three or four nights apiece with their dads... This kept us to seven tents total and spread one tent around three boys.

Edited by scoutbuff on 07/09/2012 14:02:57 MDT.

Doug Parker
(BuffaloSkipper) - F

Locale: Gulf Coast
re: Odd numbered crews on 07/12/2012 09:15:59 MDT Print View

Thanks for the replies. Unfortunately, there are no father-son pairs in the crew, so that won't resove this situation. What would the ranger likely do if the odd man showed up with a one man tent, like a GoLite Shangri-La 1. Would they still require the use of a 5 lb Philmont tent for one?

Sarah Kuhn
(SCKuhn) - MLife

Locale: Mountainous Ohio
Odd numbered crews on 07/12/2012 09:49:38 MDT Print View

Adults are allowed to tent as they wish - alone or with others. Youth are 'strongly encouraged' to tent with other youth. The following is a cut and paste from the 2012 Guidebook to Adventure, "If you choose to provide your own tent it must be a two person tent and fee of all food smells." With that said, in 2010 I took a 1 person tent as the only adult female in a crew... no questions asked, this year we had 3 adult men in our crew tent individually, 2 in 1 men tents and 1 in a 2 man tent.... no questions asked, BUT the common thread here is that all the solo tenters I mentioned were adults!!
Figure this out BEFORE you get to Philmont, the Rangers have a lot that they are required to cover with each crew and how your crew does 'tent partners' is not part of their thing. I'd suggest finding a lightweight 3 man tent and taking it or going low key with the oldest youth as a solo tenter (especially if they are close to being 18yo). [As a note, we took all of our own tents and the Ranger never inspected them until we were at our 1st camp, only asked if we had tents.... but your Ranger may vary!]
If you don't have your tenting figured out before you get to Philmont your Ranger will be more likely to question ALL other aspects of your preparation.... we always try to make our time with the Ranger as simple and easy as possible.... jump through their hoops and they are on their way in a day and a half... otherwise your crew is 'red flagged' and you will continually have staff 'checking on you'!!!

bill berklich

Locale: Northern Mid-West
Tenting by 2s and 3s on 07/12/2012 10:23:21 MDT Print View

As mentioned adults are on their own so 1, 2, 3 man tents but NO bivy sacks. Regarding your boys you will need a three man tent. Boys cannot sleep alone and their tent partner must be a parent or boy. And do sort it out before you get there. Far easier to present the ranger with what you are doing. It will be a mess if you don't.

Doug Parker
(BuffaloSkipper) - F

Locale: Gulf Coast
re: Odd numbered crews on 07/12/2012 11:11:12 MDT Print View

Thanks for the replies. I understand what is in the guide to adventure, and, in spite of never having been to Philmont, I appreciate and respect the guidelines, and am trying to see that the scouts can resolve this before they leave.

So back to my original question: What happens when an odd numbered crew of five (youth) shows up with 2 two man tents? This has been addressed with the crew, but the only scout who is making any effort to resolve this is the "odd man out" (who is, ironically, the elected crew leader).

bill berklich

Locale: Northern Mid-West
Call Philmont on 07/12/2012 11:17:17 MDT Print View

Call Philmont ASAP and find out(575) 376-2281. I don't know but I can see them making you buy a three man tent from the Tooth of Time before you step off.

Sarah Kuhn
(SCKuhn) - MLife

Locale: Mountainous Ohio
Odd numbered crews on 07/12/2012 11:32:07 MDT Print View

Educated 'guess'..... they'll make you haul the extra 2 man tent and 1 youth, most likely the oldest (or crew leader) will sleep alone...
I'd hate to be that guy!! The extra weight is ugly!! (even for a youth)
Glad to hear the crew leader is trying to work this out.... it should work itself out on your shakedowns, just continue to train..... that may solve your odd number issue on its own or try to recruit another youth.

Larry M
(Maethros) - MLife

Locale: Mid South
Re: Odd numbered crews on 07/12/2012 14:22:51 MDT Print View

As an Advisor with foreknowledge of the problem, I would bring along a 3-man tent to produce (with great flourish) once the crew realizes the best solution to their dilemma.

BTW, our crew of 8 boys tented 3-3-2.

Edited by Maethros on 07/12/2012 14:24:08 MDT.

tents on 07/12/2012 19:43:11 MDT Print View

I would encourage UL tents big enough to hold 4 scouts each. They can weigh 12 oz per scout instead of 3 lbs for a conventional cheap tent.

Tony Ronco
(tr-browsing) - MLife
Odd Numbered Crews on 07/18/2012 11:08:59 MDT Print View

This reply doesn't answer your question on Philmont issued tents ... so, with that acknowledgement ..

Last summer we had two crews that were odd numbered.
Our shelter of choice were pyramid canopies that were sized for 4. Like it has already been mentioned in the previous replies, it is a very light shelter to begin with and consequently makes the lightest shelter weight avg per scout.
Odd number? One of the pyramids had 3 scouts in it instead of 4.

Edited by tr-browsing on 07/18/2012 11:11:55 MDT.

Peter Griffith
(petergriffith) - MLife

Locale: SoCal
Re: Odd numbered crews on 07/20/2012 19:39:47 MDT Print View

Another thing to consider other than tents is food. Philmont will only issue food for even numbers. Each meal is prepackaged in a bag for two people. We had an odd number in our crew and the odd person would open all the food bags at the pickup point and take out the duplicate bars and such that he wasn't going to eat and put them in the swap box at the commissary. Don't wait until you get to camp or you'll have to carry it until the next swap box. Dinners were a problem because they are packaged for two people and there is no way to split up a Mountain House type meal without opening the package. Our odd man just tried to get others to eat the extra food. Lunches often included crackers. He would look at the lunches for the next few days and decide which crackers he liked best and use the box of choice over a two day period. The unwanted, unopened crackers would go in the swap box.

bill berklich

Locale: Northern Mid-West
1,2,3 man Tents on 08/08/2012 11:52:58 MDT Print View

Just returned from our Trek and of course it was GREAT! We had 3 adults and 9 boys 14 to 17. While our Ranger had no problem with our adult sleeping alone in a one man tent he was having no part of less than 2 Scouts to a tent. We did bring a 3 man as well as the 1 and 2 and a good thing too. Jake was not interested in hearng that our 17yo was only 14 days away from his 18th B-day.

Dan Lee
(scoutbuff) - MLife

Locale: Colorado
ODD NUMBERED CREWS... on 08/08/2012 15:50:13 MDT Print View

Our crew was the same as yours (9+3)... Our solution was that each of our three oldest took turns spending four nights with their dad. By doing this, every adult carried a two-man but also had some privacy and some nights with their son. Seemed to work without any issues and kept our footprint to seven two-man tents...

Wade Ford
(cwford) - MLife

Locale: NTX
Odd number crews on 08/26/2012 22:56:01 MDT Print View

We had 9 + 2 crew this year and took a 3 man tent to solve the odd number problem. Both of the advisor's boys were on the trek but neither boy was interested in tenting with dad. Rightfully so I guess. I know I would have resisted tenting with my dad back in the day.

We did get some push back from our ranger on advisors tenting alone but we prevailed when we showed him the 3 man tent for the boys. I'm not sure I understand the space issue as none of the camps we were at were anywhere close to full.

We tried a number of different options on tents and ended up with an older 3 man backpacking tent. It was fairly heavy at almost 7 pounds but it divided pretty evenly 3 ways and it was easy for the boys to set up. Some of the lighter weight tarp style tents are just too fiddly to hold the attention of 14 year boys.

Edited by cwford on 08/26/2012 22:57:33 MDT.

Donald Howard
(DonH) - F
Tents for Philmont on 09/03/2012 18:42:46 MDT Print View

Our crew of 6 scouts will be buying tents for next years trip. Considering this quote from the Philmont Guide "If you bring your own tent it must be a 2-person tent....", can we buy 2 three person tents or do we need to use 2 person tents only?

Edited by DonH on 09/03/2012 18:44:01 MDT.

Jim Colten
(jcolten) - M

Locale: MN
Re: Tents for Philmont on 09/03/2012 18:55:33 MDT Print View

Our troop used a Golite SL-4+ for 5 scouts in 2010 and received zero pushback. I was part of the crew and they had a great time in it. They plan to take it again in 2013.

I see that Golite has SL-3's in stock right now.