Okay bare with me here as I explain this, didn't want to write a novel in the subject header.

A good friend of mine for the past 4 years now has been taking 3 month trips to isolated parts of Patagonia (Argentina side). After we became friends a few years ago he has been very open to lightening his load, and flirts with UL standards on shorter trips here. He came to me for advice the other day on a new, lightweight but sturdy and very rain/wind proof shelter solution. On his last trip, he got rained on for 8 solid days and his weathered old and heavy traditional tent failed utterly on him after a few days (but thankfully after my recommendation, he took a space blanket with him, which he used on top of the tent to water proof it :) ).

But then the more he told me about his trip conditions, the more difficult things got in narrowing down some alternatives for a new shelter. I will just list all the things he takes into consideration:

-The shelter needs to be roomy and comfortable because it is literally his home for over 3 months. Where he camps there are no other built shelters to fall back on, nor are there any hotels or hostels that are close enough to consider an option to fall back on. At least one meter tall, and no solo shelters.

-Very, very water proof, especially over extended days of heavy rain.

-No center pole, i.e. no pyramid type shelters. He tried this, and says there is not enough room for him to move around inside the shelter, plus he has a big sleep mat that he is not willing to replace with anything smaller.

-Under 400 USD.

-Under 2kg.

-Bug proof.

*EDIT: -Forgot to add, no shelters that rely on trekking poles only, as he does not use them.

I suggested the TT Hogback, but he thinks this might be overkill on size, and is worried that he might not be able to find enough flat space to set the tent up. Then I suggested the TT Double Rainbow, but he said he does not like the bug net on the bottom because the tent might flood, and said his last tent (which did not have bug netting around the floor) flooded some from the rain/wind. Then I suggested the MLD Supermid plus bug net and to just put up with the center pole, but he won't budge on the no-center pole thing.

Is there a rock to kill all these birds?

Edited by PrimeZombie on 07/07/2012 14:39:07 MDT.

Tough to get space, no center pole and around 4 lbs. Maybe the Big Agnes Copper Spur series, either the 2P or 3P. I'd maybe lean towards the 3P version if I was going to live in it for a while and not carry it everyday.


http://www.rei.com/product/827913/big-agnes-copper-spur-ul2-tent

http://www.rei.com/product/827914/big-agnes-copper-spur-ul3-tent

It would seem the BA Copper Spur UL2 fits all this criteria. Also happens to be on sale at REI for 299US. Now tell me how I can sign up to spend 3 months at a time in Patagonia.

Edit- Beat me to it. Great minds think alike? :P

Edited by PorcupinePhobia on 07/07/2012 15:11:39 MDT.

The new MSR Nook

http://cascadedesigns.com/msr/tents/experience-series/nook/product

I've owned the Copper Spur UL 1,3 and 4. The 2 seemed to be too much of a compromise, but I enjoyed both the 1 and 3. The 4 was utterly massive and I had concerns about the high profile sides catching the wind.

Which brings me to my point about the 3: On the positive side it's really roomy for one or two. But windproof, it's not. On a recent trip to the continental divide, I took my Duomid and my buddy took the Copper Spur UL3 that I sold him. The winds ripped through and around our campsite, and neither of us fared brilliantly. James told me his Copper Spur acted like a lung all night long - the tent would deform inwards when battered head-on by the wind, and then inflated when wind got under the fly.

I'd have concerns about its longevity exposed to direct wind and sun if used as a base camp for long periods of time. The flip side, for a mobile shelter is that he'd need to deal with site selection - the 3 has a large footprint - and the inner is pitched first - not great during a downpour.

It breaks both the weight limit and the budget, but if he's living in the tent for months I can't think of a better option than a Hilleberg - either the Kaitum 2 (best ventilation, two vestibules) or the Nammatj 2 (bugproof vestibule and smaller footprint). Ask around on gear swap and see how close you could get to his budget.

With those sort of rainy conditions I would not recommend one of the Big Agnes tents. The front door/vestibule combo will get old in continuous rain. A MSR Hubba Hubba style tent would be better with the side opening vestibule. The Big Agnes tents expose the front part of the interior to rain entering and exiting.

Maybe look for a Hubba Hubba HP on sale.

He'll have to wait a while....

I hiked in that region a few years back (2002; Chile & Argentina). Very windy. Rained everyday on the Chile hike (7 days) but didn't rain on the Argentina hike (short 2-day hike). I used a Stephenson tent (http://warmlite.com/warmlite-two-person-tent). Worked well with the wind. You have to be careful exiting the tent in the rain (try to set the foot end into the prevailing wind). Some moisture will get inside due to the door's design. Fairly light (3 lb 2 oz). It only took 3 stakes and you could set it up completely as one unit (no separate tent body & rain fly). Really expensive, tho.

Did I say it was windy in Patagonia?

I was thinking the same thing Mary, but I doubt Roger's tents will come in under the $400 USD price.

If the requirement wasn't so stringent on lack of center pole I would say any of the MLD 'mids. With the intense wind that patagonia endures I'd say the Trailstar or the future BigStar size upgrade would probably survive quite well.

One that could work is the TT Strato Spire 1 with the Ruta Locura CF poles (4 sec .450 tarp pole 50" a bit under 3oz each)
http://www.rutalocura.com/Tent_Poles.html
That will give you a large solo shelter with very generous vestibules, dry set up, remouvable inner and with at least one rain protected side .
About 40oz total , $100 for the poles $285 for the SS1 (or $305 with the partial solid inner for better wind protection) , so a bit over budget with shipping.
TT SS1 Tour
Franco
(I look after TT in Australia)

For those conditions, I'd seek the suggestions of our members from Great Britain, Scotland, Scandinavia, and New Zealand. They spend a lot of time hiking/trekking/tramping under exactly those exact weather conditions.

My first suggestion would also be one of the Hilleberg tents or one of the high altitude North Face expedition domes, but both break the cost and weight limits.

My Double Rainow with its bathtub floor has seen some very significant winds and rain without any floor flooding issues, but for prolonged heavy wind-driven rains , I would want something other than silnylon over me to avoid the misting issues, and I sure wouldn't want carbon fiber poles.

It all boils down to personal choice. Under the conditions he is expecting to encounter, the comfort and security would be worth the added weight and cost to me.

HMMV



.

Edited by wandering_bob on 07/07/2012 18:21:41 MDT.

There is silnylon and there is silnylon , nevertheless "Kerlon" is silnylon and there is a $400 or so budget as well as the under 2kg (4.4 lbs) limit ..

The SS1 is nothing like the DR, just as an Akto is nothing like a Saivo so better consider individual shelters rather than going by brand.
(if you like the SS1 is an hexagonal duo mid with 2 supported ends)
I mentioned those Ruta Locura poles because they are much thicker than standard tent poles but close in weight.
CF still has a bit of a reputation with lateral pressure but most tend to agree that they are fine for vertical pressure.
Anyway the point is that maybe with the right trekking pole substitute more shelters could be considered.
Franco

Use a pyramid with two poles set in an inverted v.

This may be a little anti-UL, but I would suggest checking out the Nemo Losi 2P. This tent is one bulletproof mofo and comes in at 2.2kg spec weight. I had one night on Mt. Garfield in the Whites two years ago where we got HAMMERED all night with a crazy storm very strong winds and torrential rain. Waking up in the morning found all other tents there soaked inside including 2 TNF tents, a Hubba Hubba, and a couple of SD tents. We were the only people with a bone dry tent come sunrise. No joke. If I'm out in the middle of nowhere, with no fallback options, an extra 0.2kg is a small price to pay for peace of mind. It's under $400 and downright huge in terms of a 2p backpacking tent. It's easily about twice the inner volume of the Nemo Obi 2p we just got. Just my 2 cents. Oh, and the tent wasn't even guy-lined out. We only had the vestibule ends tied down to the tent platforms. No other anchors.

Edited by aaronjayl on 07/07/2012 19:20:37 MDT.

Not sure if this would be right, would need poles. Also a strong belief in Spinnaker and its WP nature. interested to hear if anyone has used this with success (too rich for my blood).

To be honest I mostly read this thread because (due to my AT bias) I thought that you were going the 'tricky shelter situation' was going to be something like 'how do you tell a 300 lb overweight guy who shows up at 10 pm in the rain that this shelter is first-come first-serve, and he can't lay lengthwise across everyone else while finishing his whiskey bottle?"

Probably better that this is not the problem.....anyway, as AT shelters are not very portable, not sure GG is a good solution but I thought others had some good ones.

It doesn't meet the cost and weight criteria but is robustly designed for VERY wet and windy environments. Read Roger Caffin's tunnel tent SOTM review for this tent from a couple of months ago. I personally have owned one of these tents for about 20 years, it has been in some pretty hairy places and has never failed me.

On sale at the moment for nz$570 or about us$455.

http://www.macpac.co.nz/shop/en_nz/gear-and-clothing/tents/tents-mountain/olympus.html

I didn't have very good luck with TheOne during Colorado thunder storms, so I'd be hesitant to recommend it. Plus, it's a solo tent that uses either two trekking poles or tent poles to put up. Conversely, it sounds like the desired criteria is "not a solo" tent and "no poles."

Based on that, it sounds like what is wanted is a free-standing two-person tent. Therefore, IMO, I second the recommendation on the MSR Hubba Hubba or TNF current Tadpole descendants. It may even be that an expedition tent is required.

Just wanted to thank everyone for the feedback and advice. My friend has several more alternatives to consider now.

In going through all these tents, it makes me consider buying a big tent for my family. We currently have two tents--one for the kids, one for mama and papa--but it might make more sense to have one big tent instead. I am thinking the MLD Supermid, and adding individual bug protection if needed.

So many tents... so little time/money...

I'd recommend a TT Scarp 2 with the ripstop inner and "crossing poles".

AND I'd brush on more silicone in a 5:1 mixture of odorless mineral spirits to silicon caulk, but just on the top 1/2 of the canopy and the entire floor exterior.

That should certainly be a nice "home" in prolonged, heavy rains but still have good ventilation when needed. Weight and price are within his limits.

+1 on the Scarp 2 with crossing poles.
+1 on a mid with external V poles.

Consider a TT Hogback for a family tent. We use one along with a Scarp 2 on our family backpacking trips with four young kids.