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Doug Parker
(BuffaloSkipper) - F

Locale: Gulf Coast
Trail/Route Question on 06/28/2012 12:05:26 MDT Print View

I have been looking at an itinerary and trying to find the route on my electronic maps (Topo 8). Using files I have uploaded, it looks like some of the trails are on actual "Forest Service" roads. Is this correct, or do some of these trails just "parallel" these roads. Specifically, right now, I am looking at Six Mile Gate to Anasazi (actually House Canyon) and Pontil to Dean Cow (the first section south-southeast of Pontil, about halfway to Dean Cow).

Just curious.

Jay Klustner
(jklustner) - F
Roads on 06/28/2012 12:56:57 MDT Print View

There are many roads in the Philmont area so that the camps can be resupplied easily and so that if someone gets hurt, they can be evacuated quickly. On our trek, we hike a ton on these roads. Sometimes there are trails paralleling the roads, but usually they are steeper and not as direct as the roads. Just think of the roads as really wide trails. I am sure you won't have to hike on the roads as much as we did in our trek.

Jay Klustner

ed dzierzak
(dzierzak) - F

Locale: SE
Trails vs roads on 06/28/2012 13:31:00 MDT Print View

If you have a choice between the jeep road and a trail, the trail is usually more shaded and less steep. Jeeps have a few more horsepower than we do so the roads are generally steeper. In addition, the roads are generally rougher.

Please note the "usually" and "generally" above. YMMV!

Never done 6-mile Gate to Anasazi so it looks like your choice.

Never did the Ponil to Dean Cow, just part of Dean Skyline (jeep road) west of the trail junction to Ponil. If it continues to the southeast in the same manner, it's not a bad way to go. I have done New Dean to Dean Cow via the Dean Canyon trail - it's not bad and was better shaded than Dean Skyline trail(road).

Enjoy the ranch either way!

ed

Edited by dzierzak on 06/28/2012 13:40:09 MDT.

John Myers
(dallas) - F - MLife

Locale: North Texas
Philmont roads & shade on 06/28/2012 13:42:48 MDT Print View

Another thought on the roads, they have no shade.

As hot as it's been the road hikes get really hot after about 10 am.

We had a couple of sections that we had to road hike in the northern area. It got pretty brutal after a while.

Good thing that I took my Golite mylar umbrella. I got to hike in the shade the whole time. I got some grief about that, but it was well worth it. Anyone with an itinerary in the north through the burn section should consider it. :)

Doug Parker
(BuffaloSkipper) - F

Locale: Gulf Coast
Roads for Itinerary #13 on 06/29/2012 07:32:23 MDT Print View

I have looked at previous treks via posted electronic gps files, and I have been able to piece together about 95% of the trek based on this information and comparing to my electronic maping software. I have come up with the following road overview:
Day 1) 75% road
Day 2) 75% road
Day 3) 00% road
Day 4) 85% road
Day 5) 60% road (crosses US 64 north to south late past mid hike)
Day 6) 20% road
Day 7) 35% road
Day 8) 75% road
Day 9) 60% road
Day 10) 5% road
Day 11) 0% road

That is only effectively 3 days without road, and most days are spent half or more on roads. I have done road walks in conjuction with hikes and they are no fun. And of course, it is hard for me to tell from an electronic Topo map just how "roady" these are.

Am I reading too much into this? Never having been to Philmont, it is difficult to draw a meaningful conclusion.

John Myers
(dallas) - F - MLife

Locale: North Texas
Philmont road hikes on 06/29/2012 13:07:49 MDT Print View

That looks abnormally high.

Get the section maps. They show the trails a lot better than a GPS map will.

The vast majority of the hiking there is intended to be on a trail. Your crew may elect a road hike in some places, but it should be the exception, not the rule.

Carl Zimmerman
(CarlZ993) - MLife
Trails/Roads @ Philmont on 06/29/2012 13:12:59 MDT Print View

Often, there is several routes to your next camp. On one of our treks a few years back, we hiked along the road thinking it would be shorter than the trail. It was, but it was steeper and hotter (no shade). When the trail crossed the road, we jumped on it. More shade and not as steep. More views as well.

Joshua Gray
(coastalhiker) - MLife
Re: Trail/Route Question on 07/04/2012 17:29:49 MDT Print View

6 mile to Anasazi is 90% trail. It mostly runs to the left of the road and goes by the T-Rex track. Def take the trail there. I'll have to pull out by old Philmont GIS maps and look at the rest.

In general, >75% of your hiking should be on trails or old overgrown jeep roads (with some/significant overhead cover).

Most of the time GPS maps do not show a lot of Philmont specific trails. That why Philmont has their own GIS people and makes their own maps.

Doug Parker
(BuffaloSkipper) - F

Locale: Gulf Coast
Trails it is! on 07/06/2012 08:40:02 MDT Print View

Thanks Joshua. What I was doing was looking at the Topo 8 software maps from DeLorme. They show a number of "roads" and only a few trails. I then was able to upload a number of routes (gpx files) from multiple crews over the last few years. Knowing that there is some variance in the maps. It is sometimes hard to tell when there is a "road" and the tracks travels on, parallels and/or crosses the indicated road just how much is on the road or an accompanying trail.

Six Mile to Anasazi is a great example, as it shows that as a "road" with the tracks crossing repeatedly. All of that 75% on Days 1 & 2 indicated above was on this "road" as there was no way to identify an accompanying trail.

I think I get it now. I will pass that information on to the crew leader and trek advisor.

Edited by BuffaloSkipper on 07/06/2012 08:41:35 MDT.