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(annapurna) - MLife
Re: hmm on 07/06/2012 17:43:44 MDT Print View

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=13180

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: hmm on 07/06/2012 18:49:33 MDT Print View

Titanium can take much higher heat. Does not dent as easily. Does not corrode. Aluminum is lighter but titanium is stronger so you can get away using thinner material.

john hansford
(jhansford) - MLife
Antigravity gear 3-cup pot on 07/07/2012 01:00:37 MDT Print View

I like the Antigravitygear 3-cup pot.
Low profile style, so easy to cook with,
710 ml, adequate for one person, but still small enough to use as a mug,
2.25 ozs, plus 1.25 ozs for the lid or use Al foil, but you will need a pot grab.

James Marco
(jamesdmarco) - MLife

Locale: Finger Lakes
AL vs Ti on 07/07/2012 04:49:08 MDT Print View

"i thought that buying Titanium gear is all about saving weight but when you have aluminum gear that weighs less than what advantages are left for the titanium?"

Actually, no. Ti is about atomic weight 48. Al is about 27. Ti is about 60% more dense than Aluminum (unalloyed.) It is quite ductile (takes dents well and pulls wire easily) but, for cooking pots is alloyed with Aluminum resulting in a stiffer pot. Indeed, I fell on one and cracked it trying to unbend it.

Aluminum is LIGHTER than Titanium by a considerable margin. However, once it is alloyed with Aluminum (usually about 2/3 ti) it is a LOT stiffer. Making a pot of the same strength means that the pot will be roughly 1/2 as thick. So, it CAN be lighter. As I remember, only the older BPL pots were this thin, though. If you believe the old myth about Aluminum being bad for you, it doesn't matter, since it has Aluminum in it. It doesn't corrode with acidic foods much, though (tomato sauces, fruit fillings, etc.) Generally, the lightest aluminum pots will be lighter than Ti pots, but for generally manufactured stuff, weights of the lightest Ti pots are about the same as an Aluminum pot of the same capacity. Cost is about 8-10 times as much for Ti. A $5 1.3L grease pot(Al) will cost about $40-50 in Ti.

Ti does not conduct heat very well. With the Al added, it is better, but still it does not like to transfer heat as readily as AL. Gold, copper, and Al do far better. Roger C and I had quite a discussion on this about three or four years ago. He pointed out that the difference was only about 1-2% for thin walled camping pots, but I think he did not add for sideways conductance (along the material.) Anyway, Ti has a way of burning water. Aluminum does not. 2-4F over the same time period (to 200F or about boiling) seemed somewhat significant to me. Roger thought not. Thicker pots, of course, do worse.

Olicamp Hard Anodized XTS Pot (1-Litre) has a built in heat exchanger for use with any stove. I do not have one yet (1 liter is a bit small, I prefer a 1.3 liter) but would like to get one some day. Around $25-30 US. It weighs about 7oz but may be worth it in fuel savings (I go through about 2.75oz of alcohol or 1oz of WG per day.)

Arthur Haskind
(Anubis) - F
I am enlightened on 07/07/2012 08:30:04 MDT Print View

After reading James's reply i see less and less advantages to Titanium pots :|

M B
(livingontheroad) - M
pot on 07/07/2012 08:49:42 MDT Print View

My pot requirements

Folding handle, no sharp edges to damage pack, liner, expensive gear
Must be able to be picked up and poured with ONE hand. Period.
Must not need protection to prevent being crushed like a beer can.

The grease pot is cheap, but if you have to buy and bring a pot lifter, you are just wasting your time with it. Dont think you can just grab a boiling pot off of a stove with a bandana either, you will scald yourself or set the bandana on fire eventually.

Some things arent worth the trouble. The grease pot is one of them.

$60 for evernew 1.3L with folding handles, pour spout. Well worth it at ~4.5oz
holds my stove/support, windscreen, firestarter, lighter, matches and 2 -12oz styrofoam coffee cups with lids (0.1oz each) which stay protected from damage. A couple of rubber bands holds the lid on securely in the pack.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: AL vs Ti on 07/07/2012 09:08:04 MDT Print View

If you take care of your gear a pot will last the rest of your life and someone else's. Choose wisely, buy once. A lifetime of use from a pot is less than pennies per day. Buying quality gear only stings once.

I went with the Evernew 750ml Past Pot and could not be happier. For me it is perfect.

Edited by kthompson on 07/07/2012 09:09:20 MDT.

john hansford
(jhansford) - MLife
Pot grabber on 07/07/2012 09:39:36 MDT Print View

" if you have to buy and bring a pot lifter, you are just wasting your time with it. Dont think you can just grab a boiling pot off of a stove with a bandana either, you will scald yourself or set the bandana on fire eventually "

Pot grabber = no burnt fingers, clean hands

How do you lift a pot off an Inferno stove with flames licking up the handles?

By removing the handles you save 0.5 oz, making the extra only 0.75 oz for an Open Country grabber.

Edited by jhansford on 07/07/2012 10:48:32 MDT.

Dale Wambaugh
(dwambaugh) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Pot grabberz on 07/07/2012 10:26:17 MDT Print View

Okay, we do get down to grams, but geez, I want to move a pot full of boiling water without scalding myself, particularly up the side of a mountain somewhere. I've scalded myself in the kitchen, getting a second degree burn in the process and it *hurt*. Drop a liter of boiling water on your foot or leg and good luck walking out.

If you have a small pot with handles, a bandanna isn't too bad and better if the flame is out and it isn't boiling over. For a handle-less pot or a pot set a good ol' pot grabber works well and isn't that heavy. I would assume that anyone cooking with larger pots is cooking for a group and the weight can be shared. I don't mind an ounce for a truly functional piece of gear that will be used a couple times a day and promotes safety.

An Open Country pot grabber is 1.2oz and $4 at REI. The fancier looking MSR Pandhandler is functionally identical to the Open Country model and weighs 1.6oz, costs $8-$10 and comes with a cloth sack. The MSR Lite Lifter is reported as 1oz and will set you back $12-$15 (ouch).

Or you can leave the handles on your pot.

Ken Thompson
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: AL vs Ti on 07/07/2012 10:33:54 MDT Print View

I've seen Cameron pull his titanium pot off his bushbuddy stove bare handed by always grabbing above the waterline at the rim. Advantage taken of titaniums poorer heat transfer. No handles. No pot holder.

I use a cone. I like handles. Always bare handed too.

Edited by kthompson on 07/07/2012 10:35:00 MDT.

M B
(livingontheroad) - M
pot on 07/07/2012 10:46:20 MDT Print View

pot lifters let you pick it up.

I wouldnt try pouring into a freezer bag my kid is holding open usinig them. Simply not made to do it.

The handles on the evernew pot DO let you do this, safely, in control, easily. They are cool to touch.

They dont get hot, at all. My stove heats the bottom of my pot, perfectly. I do not have wild flames engulfing the pot like some do that are obsessed with heating up 1 min faster and use supercat style stove.

I tried the grease pot. From experience I say, simply not worth the hassle for me. Best $60 I ever spent was to get away from that thing. Made cooking much easier.

Tim Zen
(asdzxc57) - F

Locale: MI
Re: pot on 07/07/2012 11:07:05 MDT Print View

vargo 500 ml sierra cup with integral folding handle at 80 grams.
The windscreen / pot holder is a cylinder.

(Can the censor software do something about Dinty Moore?)

Sam M
(samw51) - F
Also Looking on 07/07/2012 11:37:48 MDT Print View

I'm also looking for a pot for myself. I plan to do mostly pouch cooking, but want the flexibility to cook in the pot too. I'm considering:

Stanco Grease Pot (1.3 l, 3.7 ounces)

Anti Gravity Gear - non-stick (.7 liters, 3.8 ounces)

Open Country 3 cup pot - hard anodized aluminum (.7 liters, 3.8 ounces)
Open Country 2 quart pot - hard anodized aluminum (1.5 Liters, 5.9 ounces)

Any rec's?

Jon Fong
(jonfong) - F

Locale: FLAT CAT GEAR
Aluminum verses titanium on 07/07/2012 12:24:21 MDT Print View

If you are ONLY boiling water for re-hydration, an anodized aluminum pot will be fine. I find that aluminum pots tend to be more fuel efficient than titanium pots. I suspect that this has to do with the amount of heat transfer up the sidewalls.

If you are boiling and COOK in your pot, I would recommend a bare titanium pot. I find that the coatings on aluminum pots are not very robust. They scratch easily and you have to be carefully cleaning and packing them. With titanium on the other hand, I have cleaned them out with a sand/water slurry and I never worry about scratches while cleaning or packing.

With the 850 ml pot on Backcountry.com at $28, the difference between a good anodized pot and titanium are minimal. If your set on aluminum, I agree with others that the Antigravity gear 3 cupper is pretty nice and is also a good price. Best regards - Jon

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Pot grabber on 07/07/2012 20:36:18 MDT Print View

Geez, guys, I never use a pot grabber, and my cook pot has no handles. It has a single stainless steel wire bail.

--B.G.--

James Klein
(jnklein21) - M

Locale: Southeast
Re: pot on 07/07/2012 20:49:16 MDT Print View

"The grease pot is cheap, but if you have to buy and bring a pot lifter, you are just wasting your time with it."
Why b/c it makes it heavier? More spendy? I guess more fiddley??

IMO, the greasepot is an excellent value. I use a pan pie lid for mine and cut the weight down to something like 2.5oz.

I use a canister stove and don't bring water to a full boil but I find that my gloves/mittens (doubled up if I am using lighter ones) are more than sufficient for grabbing/pouring water. Thumb goes over top lip and fingers cradle the bottom. I would feel comfortable doing this with a bandana also. I have considered adding a bail to make this even easier.

I also have the olicamp htx pot with handles - haven't camped with it yet. While nice I have consider doing away the handles b/c I think the above method works well enough.

The imusa mug has a non folding handle for those who are worried about a bandana/glove grab. It also is very cheap, though of course is slightly harder to pack and you'll have to come up with a lid...though for me the packing complexity would be well worth the saved $50....
http://www.end2endtrailsupply.com/Imusa_Mugs.html

Simon Wurster
(Einstein) - F

Locale: Big Apple
Re: I am enlightened on 07/07/2012 22:53:02 MDT Print View

I've done over a hundred alcohol stove tests (54 in the last 2 months), and my aluminum pots never performed as well as the titanium ones. And believe me, I wanted them to do better!

In my tests the average boil for aluminum was 7:27 (6 tests, 2 pots), and the average boil for titanium was 6:40 (31 tests, 7 pots), which is a 47 second advantage over aluminum.

I believe this has to do with thickness of titanium pots (very thin) vs. the aluminum pots (more than 4X thicker?). Sure, aluminum as an element conducts heat better, but a titanium pot transfers heat better because it's so thin. And as others have mentioned, you can beat the crap out of them, scrub them with a Roto-Stripper (just kidding), use them in an inferno wood fire, and they just keep working. To paraphrase the Patek Phillipe slogan "You never actually own a titanium vessel. You merely look after it for the next generation."

David Thomas
(DavidinKenai) - MLife

Locale: North Woods. Far North.
Re: Re: I am enlightened on 07/07/2012 23:35:50 MDT Print View

Al vs Ti over these thicknesses doesn't matter for heat conductivity. All the heat transfer resistance is primarily in the air film on the outside and secondarily in the water boundary layer on the inside.

If, as mentioned by others, you're concerned about HX along the material, yes there will be a difference. That relates to a hotter/cooler freeboard above the liquid and avoiding scrotching foods on hot spots in thin, less conductivity materials.

If you're seeing a difference in boil times in the same dimensioned pots, look to the color/coating on the outside. Anything painted or anodized will absorb (and emit) more infrared (good on the Bottom which sees the hot flames, bad on the sides which see the cold surroundings). Bare, shiny metal absorbs and emits very little infrared.

Edited to fix iPad typing errors.

Edited by DavidinKenai on 07/08/2012 07:40:53 MDT.

Sam M
(samw51) - F
steep and cheap on 07/08/2012 02:38:26 MDT Print View

Steep and Cheap has a Stoic titanium (with non-stick) pot set for sale for $54. I only want the 1.3L pot and not the 1.6L pot. Anyone care to split it down the middle with me? (assuming it reappears on steep and cheap).

the same set is here for $20 more: www.backcountry.com/stoic-ti-1.6l-pot-1.3l-pot-set

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
Once again... aluminum v.s. Ti on 07/08/2012 15:20:41 MDT Print View

LIGHTNESS> To be as light as aluminum pot Ti has to be quite thin.

COOKING EASE>
1. Ti does not conduct heat nearly as well as aluminum
2. thin Ti is even worse in heat conductivity
3. Thus thin Ti WILL have a center hot spot that can burn if you are actually cooking, not just boiling water.

I vote for aluminum, either anodized or non-stick coated (and I save money).

Edited by Danepacker on 07/08/2012 15:21:58 MDT.