I've replaced some gear with much lighter versions for this summer and I've dropped my base from 7.2 lbs to 5.1 lbs. This includes my GG Mariposa Plus (19.2oz with a sit pad). I love this pack. I know there are much lighter packs out there, even at the large volume the Mariposa has, but it fits me so well. I've put off on buying another pack for a while but the gear I have for this summer isn't filling out the pack at all and causing it to carry weird. I'm down to choosing the Murmur or a modified Zero with a center and side pockets, a sternum strap and a pad holster. The Murmur sounds good because of the in stock status but I could have half the weight with the Zero. I'm leaning towards the Murmur but I figured I'd ask here first to see if the Zero would be worth the wait. Thanks

Jason

The new Murmurs are really nice but so is the option to customize a Zero to exactly your style. I'd try to decide based on which pack you think is truly better, not based on getting one pack quicker than the other because you might have this thing for years and what's another trip or two with the 19oz pack you have now. Plus Joe will rush items (ie. 2-3 weeks) if you specifically ask.

Yeah the Murmur being in stock really got me. I have a trip next weekend planned but your right whats a couple more trips. I think the Zero will probably be it. I've wanted one for a while now and I'm sure I'd end up with one sooner or later anyway. Thanks again.

The older Murmurs were really nice for light loads. Pretty easy to live out of too, which is important to me. But they were somewhat fragile. Too bad they quit making them. The new ones look much sturdier, which means heavier.

The Zero is very similar to the old Murmur, only made with Cuben and extremely light. I have a small Zero with only 2 water pockets and the pad holder. I use some light guy line cord as a sternum strap sometimes to keep the straps from moving around -- the Cuben can be slippery. I did not get any other options, because they defeat it's purpose as a minimal pack.

If the original Murmur was still available I would say get the pack that fits your budget. But you can get a Cuben Zero for close to what the new Murmur costs. I hate mesh pockets and would skip that. YMMV.

BTW, after several years of SUL and XUL hiking, I am pretty much switched over to an internal frame pack. Much happier and willing to have a base weight of 7 or 8 lbs versus 4 or 5 lbs.

I'm down to choosing the Murmur or a modified Zero with a center and side pockets, a sternum strap and a pad holster. The Murmur sounds good because of the in stock status but I could have half the weight with the Zero. I'm leaning towards the Murmur but I figured I'd ask here first to see if the Zero would be worth the wait. Thanks Jason

Thank you John for taking the time to give such an informative reply! I went with a small Zero with center and side pockets, a pad holster (probably not gonna use it but it's removable so what the heck), and a roll top closure. Joe is a great guy to work with too. He answered emails within the hour and was very friendly. Thanks again to all.

Hey Jason,

You are very much welcome. Just glad I had both of them so I could give you some first-hand feedback on both of them.

Did you go with the 1.43 cf or did you bounce up to the hybrid material?

I think there are some real advantages to having the ability to use a pad as a quasi-frame support. For the last few years I have used the GG 18th pad rolled inside of my Zero X-Small and while it has done its job keeping the backpack firm, having used the Murmur with the SitLight pad inside of the pad holder, even though it causes my back to sweat a lot, the way it helps provide support was very much unexpected and a lot better than just rolling up the other pad I have been using. So good call going with it. Did you go with the triangle one that is listed as an option or did you go with using shock cord to hold the pad in place? I have seen a few people use that method over the last few months with the zpacks backpacks.

Anyway, hope you totally enjoy that Zero!!

I went with the 1.43. I take very good care of my gear so I thought the lighter version would be just fine with me. I was actually thinking about buying the 1/8 pad. I see it is about the same weight as the SitLight(mine weighed 2.1oz). So far I don't use a ground cloth with my summer shelter which is a poncho tarp and bug tent so the extra protection for my neoair would be nice. With my Mariposa I use a thinner much firmer/stiffer pad I found at work that I cut to fit. It's heavier at 3.4oz but gives the pack a lot more support than the softer SitLight. I preferred that pad over using the SitLight and aluminum frame. I got the triangle type holster but I'm hoping that when the triangles are removed I can use shock cord attached to triangle mounts to try both ways. Really what I hoping to be able to do is not use any back pad at all. With my gear just stuffed without sacks in my Mariposa I fill out a little less than half the packs volume. I'm really hoping that stuffing the same gear plus food in the Zpacks will give it enough stiffness with the smaller volume I won't need a pad for pack support...we'll see.

Edited by JasonB on 06/18/2012 18:41:48 MDT.

Hey Jason,

The 1/8th is pretty much nill when it comes to r-value and any level of comfort. I have carried it as far as I have just for the protection of my bathtub (when I have one) and my sleeping bag, and for the structural support of the backpack.

Here is my insane setup right now:

ZPacks 0.34 Cuben Fiber 9x6 Tarp
ZPacks 1.00 Cuben Fiber Plus Ground Sheet (only use this when it is wet outside)
Gossamer Gear 1/8th pad

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/50366/gear/zpacks_034_tarp_003.jpg


I very much would love to hear back if you are able to remove the triangles from the Zero and than attach shock cord to keep a pad in place. If that does work, that would be a sweet option for others to consider.


(edited this post to change photograph from src to href as it blew apart the design of the BPL website... hey BPL... you should apply this to your CSS: max-width:500px;width:expression(this.width>500?500:true) so you can fix this on YOUR end!!)

Edited by JohnAbela on 06/18/2012 19:39:38 MDT.

Wow that's a very cool setup. Cuben Tarp is next on my list. I bet with the .34 it's crazy light. I'll post back when I get my pack in to let you know about the pad holster. Thanks again for the help. I've glanced over your website too but haven't had a chance to really check it out yet. Looks like it's full of good info though.

John,

I like the set up you have w/ the lighter version tarp from Zpacks...
What was your reasoning for having the ground sheet sown up like that, was it to reduce splash???
Doesn't that reduce your floor space??
and finally: is your c.fiber g.sheet lighter that cutting a small piece of Polycryo???

thanks,
Ruben

Heyya Ruben,

Yeah that 0.34 tarp is crazy. Pretty much everybody that see's it in person laughs at it, and than laughs at me. And I am usually laughing along with them.

The use of 0.34 as a tarp is just about the most high-risk tarp that exists. I am just waiting for the day that it goes flying off all shredded up.

I really really really do not recommend anybody buy a 0.34 cf tarp. I bought it for the express purpose of doing durability testing so that the hiking community can have some solid and viable data for a future whitepaper on why 0.34 should not be used. It has already suffered to rips that I have had to apply CF tape onto. It has also suffered some thread pulling. None of this is because zpacks did a bad job creating it - they made me exactly what I asked for. I ordered it with the knowledge that *I* waved a warranty on it.

I hope by the end of the 2012 hiking season to be able to put together an initial whitepaper for the cottage manufacturers to have access too. I started using it in October of 2011 and except for a month when I was using the Six Moon Designs Skyscape X (my review) it has gone with me on every hike I have taken. It should have around 800 - 1000 miles of trail by the time I get done with the 2012 hiking season. I figure that should be more than enough data and abuse to provide data for those who have been needing it.

Anyway, to answer your questions:

What was your reasoning for having the ground sheet sown up like that, was it to reduce splash???

Doesn't that reduce your floor space??

is your c.fiber g.sheet lighter that cutting a small piece of Polycryo???

Right on John...
Thanks for the knowledge...
I follow your website, great info.

I bought both packs this year and ended up keeping the Murmur. The Zero is nice but the material was a little uncomfortable to carry. The new Murmur is much more rugged then the previous model and has served me well on several trips so far.

"I very much would love to hear back if you are able to remove the triangles from the Zero and then attach shock cord to keep a pad in place. If that does work, that would be a sweet option for others to consider."


I wanted to update this thread to verify that you can do this. I received my new pack in the mail yesterday and even though I haven’t had a chance to try it out yet it fits even my 3 season setup very well and I'm still able to not have to use stuff sacks for my gear. I should be able to carry enough food for a 3 day trip in there no problem too. For summer use I could easily go for a week. My new summer base weight with a comfortable tarp/bug bivy setup is well into the 4's now so I'm tickled about that too. Thanks again for the help deciding to go with this pack.