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Manfred Kopisch
(Orienteering) - F - M
Cuben Haven arrived on 06/14/2012 22:43:15 MDT Print View

Finally the long wait is over and we received our new Cuben Haven today. So what was the first thing my wife and I did after work? Yes, you guessed correct, we set up the new tent and skipped dinner. The tent is amazingly light for a two person tent.
The Cuben Haven weighs under 10 oz
The set-up was straight forward and easy. This photo is of the very first pitch with no corrections for better tautness.
Cuben Haven
It has plenty of space for our two full-size NeoAirs. My wife loves that it has two doors and we can each get out on our own side. The doors can be rolled up and are held by a snap. I'm a little skeptical of the snap button and wonder how it will work in the long run.

We then set up the Haven NetTent under the CubenHaven. It was again very easy and there is lots of head room to sit and change.
Cuben Haven with NetTent

It will take a while before I can report about condensation and and other things. We will take the CubenHaven this summer on the JMT. That should give us enough experience with this tent. As of now we are very happy - no more two trekking poles between us - no more climbing over each other during the night to get to the front door - and saving quite some weight along the way. What more can you ask for? Yes, dinner ...

Edited by Orienteering on 06/14/2012 23:12:23 MDT.

Dan Durston
(dandydan) - M

Locale: Cascadia
Cuben Haven on 06/14/2012 23:07:49 MDT Print View

Very cool....thanks for posting.

Warren Greer
(WarrenGreer) - F

Locale: SoCal
Pretty darn cool on 06/14/2012 23:15:12 MDT Print View

Thanks for sharing.

Christopher Yi
(TRAUMAhead) - F

Locale: Cen Cal
Re: Cuben Haven arrived on 06/14/2012 23:17:50 MDT Print View

What shelter were you using prior?

John Abela
(JohnAbela) - MLife

Locale: www.hikelighter.com
Re: Cuben Haven arrived on 06/14/2012 23:31:04 MDT Print View

Very nice!!

It has surprisingly steep angles for being such a larger shelter.

Enjoy that shelter!!

Manfred Kopisch
(Orienteering) - F - M
Tent(s) before Cuben Haven on 06/15/2012 09:08:33 MDT Print View

Christopher,

Our other tarptent is a Black Diamond BetaLight. It weighs 19 oz and uses a design similar to the Shangri-La 2 and others, with a front door and 2 poles in the middle of the tent between the two people.
The Cuben Haven cuts the weight bascially in half, gives us two doors, way more room and has the two poles out of the way.

We also have a Big Agnes FlyCreek UL2.

Best Regards,

Manfred

Casey Bowden
(clbowden) - MLife

Locale: Berkeley Hills
Re: Tent(s) before Cuben Haven on 06/15/2012 09:58:57 MDT Print View

9.9 oz for the cuben fly
how much does the inner weigh?

Manfred Kopisch
(Orienteering) - F - M
Weights for Cuben Haven and its NetTent on 06/15/2012 11:21:21 MDT Print View

Casey,

The spec for the Cuben Haven states 10 oz and it weighs 9.85 oz on my scale. The spec for the Haven NetTent states 14 oz and it weighs 16.15 oz on my scale. I contacted Ron at SMD yesterday via email to find out what to do about my NetTent that is slightly more than 15% over spec weight.

I hope it will be resolved and I will end up with a 1.5 lbs double walled tent.

Manfred

jim jessop
(LuckyJim) - F
Weights for Cuben Haven and its NetTent on 06/15/2012 11:42:17 MDT Print View

I doubt much could be done to change the weight of the inner NetTent. SMD could amend the published weight spec to reflect the reality.

George Geist
(geist) - M

Locale: Smoky Mountains
Re: Weights for Cuben Haven and its NetTent on 06/15/2012 12:37:16 MDT Print View

Hi Casey,

We may be just seeing some manufacturing variability.
Manfred, let us know what Ron says.

My Cuben Haven arrived yesterday. It weighs 10.1 oz on my scale
and my Haven NetTent weighs 13.9 oz on my scale.
So both are pretty close to the spec weight and together 24 oz.

Can't wait to try it out this weekend.


Al

Edited by geist on 06/16/2012 09:32:56 MDT.

George Geist
(geist) - M

Locale: Smoky Mountains
More pictures Cuben Haven and its NetTent on 06/16/2012 09:32:25 MDT Print View

Here is a picture showing details of how the tie outs and
net tent attach.



Cuben Haven by SMD showing details of tie outs

Here is a front view that helps give a sense of just how much
width you have under this 10 oz Haven tarp.

Cuben Haven front view showing available width

Manfred Kopisch
(Orienteering) - F - M
Is 15% overweight acceptable? What do published weights really mean? on 06/18/2012 10:43:43 MDT Print View

George,

you were right. There is some manufacturing variability.

Below you can see the reply I received today from SMD.

I must say I'm disappointed. I paid $550 for a tent ($400 for outer + $150 for inner) mainly for its "published" weight.
I'm not sure how to interpret "Weight of our gear is not specified as fixed value" - after all the SMD website states clearly "14 oz" everywhere the Haven NetTent is shown.

Haven NetTent

I understand that there is some manufacturing variability. I looked on the forum and found two people who recently purchased a Haven NetTent and published its weight. George's Haven NetTent weighs 13.9 oz. Mina's Haven NetTent weighs 14.1 oz (in its bag with strings attached). Mine weighs 16.75 oz in its bag with strings and 16.15 oz without bag and without strings.

So what do you expect in regard to published weights when you buy ultralight gear and spend huge amounts of money to lighten your load? What kind of manufacturing variability do you find acceptable? Do you hold cottage manufacturers to different standards than big manufacturers?

Best Regards,

Manfred

P.S.: I still like my Cuben Haven with its NetTent and think it is a great tent.

-------------------------------------------

Manfried,

We'll be glad to fix the clip on the Haven NetTent that was sewn incorrectly.

Exchanging a tent because it is not the same as the published weight is a
different matter. Weight of our gear is not specified as fixed value.
Weights will fluctuate depending upon the materials used. The application
of various coatings used in the production of materials is not an exact
science and will vary from run to run.

While we also purchase materials in large quantities, it often the case
where a production run of a particular product may utilize materials that
were ordered at different times and even from different suppliers. This
can result with differences in weight in products.

Because we're ultralight We try to be as accurate with our weights as
possible. But, even we are at the mercy of a complex supply chain.

We appreciate your understanding.

--
Six Moon Designs
Innovative Ultralight Adventure Gear
http://www.sixmoondesigns.com
503.430.2303

Mark Ries
(mtmnmark) - M

Locale: IOWAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!
Re: Is 15% acceptable on 06/18/2012 12:03:07 MDT Print View

That is more like 20% overweight and to me its not acceptable 10% maybe but not 20% I think that they should spec a range or the high weight of a product. You paid alot for that cuban setup you paid for light weight.

Manfred Kopisch
(Orienteering) - F - M
Change in material caused weight increase on 06/18/2012 12:04:26 MDT Print View

George,

I just got another reply from Ron that sheds some more light on this. So it seems this is not a case of manufacturing variability, but a case of changed materials. You were "lucky" to get your NetTent from the old batch with weights of 14 oz. Mine weighs over 15% more, but hopefully will be "more robust and less subject to fraying and running". Now SMD just need to update their website to make sure other customers are not as surprised & disappointed as I was.

Manfred

-----

A while back, we made a change in the mesh being used. We were using two
kinds of mesh but as they were similar, it was causing confusion in the
production. To stabilize production and ensure consistency, we opted for a
single mesh. The new mesh is slightly heavier but is more robust and less
subject to fraying and running.

If we ever find a suitable lighter weight mesh that has the
characteristics that we want, we may adopt it. We didn't update the
website because the decision to make the change was done months before the
production of the Haven NetTents and by the time we received the
production run, we'd simply forgotten.

The website will be updated to reflect the changes. However, due to the
number of changes that are required in all of our product literature, both
printed and online. It's not likely to happen until we do our next round
of updates for the 2013 season.

We apologize for any inconvenience but at the moment we simply don't have
any of the older stock available.

Ron

--
Six Moon Designs
Innovative Ultralight Adventure Gear
http://www.sixmoondesigns.com
503.430.2303

William Wang
(billwang) - M

Locale: SF Bay Area
Overweight on 06/18/2012 13:17:46 MDT Print View

Darn, I just ordered a cuban haven with net tent last night, and was expecting based on the SMD website that the net tent would be about 14 oz instead of 16+! I will just to wait and see, I guess ...

Manfred Kopisch
(Orienteering) - F - M
15% weight increase on 06/18/2012 13:39:42 MDT Print View

William,

Please let us know how much your NetTent weighs when you receive it. I tried to exchange mine, but was told that none of the "old" batch are left. So I'm interested to see how much yours weighs. It is disappointing that the website doesn't reflect the change in weight.

Manfred

M B
(livingontheroad) - M
smd on 06/18/2012 14:22:53 MDT Print View

I am quite dissapointed that SMD know the new net tents weigh 2oz more than the advertised weight, but yet arent going to change the website right now because it is "too difficult".

That is BS, and that is poor business practice, as well as fraudulent. Changing printed hang tags, maybe. But definitely not the website. A disclaimer should immediately be posted on the website. They are a UL mfg, with a UL customer base. IF they arent aware how important that weight accuracy is, they shouldnt be in the business anymore.

Edited by livingontheroad on 06/18/2012 14:25:22 MDT.

Erik Hagen
(EWH100) - MLife

Locale: SF Bay Area
SMD on 06/18/2012 15:42:44 MDT Print View

Ron and team have been producing gear for many years now and this is the first time I've ever heard of a problem with their weight specs. His message indicates that they simply forgot to update their website and I can buy that. They've been extremely busy this year. I know it sucks when items come in heavier than expected and understand everyones disappointment. I just don't think we need to bring out the torches just yet. If you are totally dissatisfied you should be able to return it.

Personally I have purchased the Lunar Solo, Lunar Duo, Wild Oasis shelters and the Starlite and Traveler backpacks from SMD. All of them have come in close to advertised for weight and I've been very happy with all my purchases. There's a good chance I'll be adding the Cuben Haven to my collection as well.

Kevin Babione
(KBabione) - MLife

Locale: Pennsylvania
More Kudos to Six Moon Designs on 06/18/2012 16:43:31 MDT Print View

More praise for SMD and their products...

I have a Lunar Duo, a Gatewood Cape, a Starlight and a Swift and have encouraged three of my friends to buy Lunar Solos.

I had a problem with the strap on my Starlight (after using it for a year) and SMD repaired it for free - no questions asked. They've always been very responsive to emails.

William Wang
(billwang) - M

Locale: SF Bay Area
I'm getting a heavier (newer material) net tent on 06/19/2012 12:04:50 MDT Print View

I had an email exchange with SMD and it sounds like I will be getting the heavier newer netting material. I'll post an update with my measured weight when I receive it. Based on the input from all the others about the quality of the SMD (this is my first SMD purchase) I am willing to try it out even though it is heavier than indicated on the website.
-Bill.

_________________

"Bill,

We recently switched the netting on all of our NetTents to a netting
that is stronger and less prone to tearing and snagging on velcro. The
netting only weights a little bit more per yard but with a large NetTent
like the Haven a little weight increase can add up to a couple ounces.
The NetTent that you will receive will be the slightly heavier one.
Please let us know now if you are interested in canceling part of your
order.

Thank you,

Brandon Moak"