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The CAFFIN tents come!
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Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Update re the CAFFIN tents on 02/21/2013 20:52:33 MST Print View

Awesome, Roger. Thanks. There was a Hilleberg Anjan up for sale on Gear Swap for $400 (a good price!) but I thought to myself, "ah, dang, I wonder how Roger's tent is coming?" Hence my post.

A few questions if you don't mind

If you had your druthers, what fabric would you pick? And what are the issues with not using that? (probably more than you care to get into!)

Probably too soon to tell, but do you have any plans on negotiating a pre-order with Easton for BPL folk? Or are we on our own? :)

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Update re the CAFFIN tents on 02/22/2013 02:43:05 MST Print View

> If you had your druthers, what fabric would you pick? And what are the issues with
> not using that?
Precisely!

I can get a very nice Si/Si coated fabric with a HH of 2000 mm and a weight of 42 gsm and a high tear strength, and I can push the HH up to 3000 mm by adding 3 gsm (extra coating). But reinforcing it is a pain: patches have to be sewn on, neatly! I used siloxane transfer tape, but that is very slow and expensive.

On the other hand, I can get a Si/PU coated fabric with 3000 mm HH at 48 gsm which can take thermally bonded reinforcing patches, and the patches do look very nice indeed. But the tear strength is shot to blazes by the PU coating.

I know that sewn patches work, because that's what I have used and that's what Hilleberg use. But further refinements may be possible.

> negotiating a pre-order with Easton for BPL folk?
Hum - dunno. Haven't got that far, but I will bear the idea in mind. It's a good one. Yes, there could be a price-saving there.

Cheers
Roger

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Double skin on 02/23/2013 12:04:26 MST Print View

Roger, hopefully this hasn't been asked yet...


Are there plans to make the winter tent in such a fashion that the inner clips up into the outer skin like a modular option?

Or is this inherently in disagreement with the fundamentals of your design?

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Double skin on 02/23/2013 19:57:36 MST Print View

Hi Travis

> the inner clips up into the outer skin like a modular option?
Yes and no.
Sorry!

The fly contains the roof and the poles. The inner tent attaches to the fly at the poles, and includes the groundsheet. So, yes, it could be said to 'clip', although the connection is via lots of hook&loop links, but without the inner you don't get a groundsheet. I would not call this 'modular' myself.

Imho, separating the inner from the outer on the winter tent makes no sense. If you want a single-skin tent, go for the summer one. Hey - buy one of each!

Hth
Cheers

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: Re: Double skin on 02/23/2013 22:13:12 MST Print View

^The first marketing pitch.

Travis Leanna
(T.L.) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Re: Re: Re: Double skin on 02/23/2013 23:34:51 MST Print View

Thanks Roger.

>Hey - buy one of each!

I tell ya what. If each is offered at a 50% of sale, I'll get one of each!! :)


Ah, all joking aside, I do plan on getting one... just have to decide which version fits better with my "needs" (wants).


"Hth"-- I'm unfamiliar with this one!

Edited by T.L. on 02/23/2013 23:37:28 MST.

Matthew Hoskin
(mattgugel)

Locale: Kanangra-Boyd NP
CAFFIN tents on 02/23/2013 23:35:45 MST Print View

Roger you make me proud to be an Aussie!
"On ya" ( in a Penrith style accent)!
Can't wait for mine!

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: Re: Double skin on 02/24/2013 02:09:49 MST Print View

> "Hth"-- I'm unfamiliar with this one!
Hope This Helps.

Cheers

Pierre Descoteaux
(Pierre) - MLife
Caffin tent and harsh weather? on 03/02/2013 18:42:35 MST Print View

I'm really hopeful to be able to afford the 4 season version of these tents but I'm wondering if it could handle really bad weather. I'm thinking winter camping in Canada, climbing Denali in June, above tree line on some alpine climbs (Mount Robson as an exemple). I am familiar with the tunnel tents. I own an old Kelty Windfoil 3 and a Stephenson 3RS. I do think these Caffin designed tents should be my next step but I'd like to know what to expect from the 4 season version.
Any insight?
cheers
Pierre

Jeffs Eleven
(WoodenWizard) - F

Locale: Greater Mt Tabor
Re: Caffin tent and harsh weather? on 03/02/2013 19:43:14 MST Print View

That's what he's making it for!

Look for the "when things go wrong" thread

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Caffin tent and harsh weather? on 03/02/2013 23:02:14 MST Print View

> if it could handle really bad weather
Well, it has not been tested much over 100 kph wind, but that was all night. We slept.

Yep, read When Things Go Wrong.

Could it take 150 kph wind? End on to the wind with the right pitching technique, I would expect so. You would need to use the sod cloth seriously imho.

My summer tunnel tent took gusting winds side-on and over 100 kph for a short while in Slovenia one year - but we were inside the tent bracing the poles! The wind went aay after maybe 1/4 hour. All was well.

THE secret: very good guying! Make sure no stake ever moves. The CF poles and the silnylon seem quite strong enough.

Cheers

J C
(Joomy) - M
neato on 06/08/2013 22:43:39 MDT Print View

Wow totally missed this thread! Only stumbled upon it after someone mentioned people "requesting" wider Caffin tents in another thread. Very interesting. Please keep us updated Roger.

Simone Zmood
(sim1oz) - MLife

Locale: Melbourne, Australia
CAFFIN winter tent on 06/20/2013 04:27:02 MDT Print View

Hi Roger,

When (being an optimist!) your winter tent goes into production are they also considering making your titanium snow pegs and deadman anchors?

Cheers,
Simone

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: CAFFIN winter tent on 06/20/2013 16:04:34 MDT Print View

Hi Simone

> are they also considering making your titanium snow pegs and deadman anchors?
Not yet, anyhow. Remember: Easton are an aluminium (& CF) company. I doubt they have any experience with Ti.
Could they use their 7075 T9 alloy instead? Hum ... I wonder. I will keep that idea in the back of my head.

Cheers

Tad Englund
(bestbuilder) - F - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Re: CAFFIN winter tent on 06/20/2013 16:16:11 MDT Print View

Roger, wouldn't the T9 have a little too much "stick" with the snow (unless painted). Regular aluminum seems to have more "stick" then Ti. I haven't used T9 knowingly.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: CAFFIN winter tent on 06/20/2013 20:37:42 MDT Print View

Hi Tad

> wouldn't the T9 have a little too much "stick" with the snow (unless painted).
> Regular aluminum seems to have more "stick" then Ti.
Now that is a good question. A VERY good Q.

You are right that ordinary aluminium bonds far too well to snow AND ICE. Extracting ordinary stakes can be very hard in the morning, especially in Oz where the snow can be wet in the evening, and ice in the morning. Getting them out has sometimes needed an ice axe, and sometimes been damaging. And that is precisely why I developed those Ti stakes and deadman anchors featured in
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/make_your_own_gear_titanium_snow_stakes.html
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/myog_ti_snow_stakes_part_2.html

But I am not sure how the heavily anodised tubing Easton uses behaves in snow and ice. How well does snow and ice bond to that surface? I don't think I have done much testing there. Obviously those round tent-pole stakes are not good enough for snow, so few ever use them in the snow.

However, my memory is that getting Easton tent poles out of frozen sleeves in the morning was not that difficult (just unbearably cold without gloves). I don't remember ever having the poles really freeze to the fabric, even when the fabric was frozen solid (pre-silnylon days).

Hum ... could Easton anodise sheet metal the same way as the tubing? Dunno. Limited market might be the problem of course.

Cheers

Andre Buhot
(Shadow-MKII) - M
anodising on 06/20/2013 23:35:20 MDT Print View

Roger, Easton would have no problems with the Anodising look at the Hoyt target bows for a range of colours that they produce in house. Easton and Hoyt are divisions of the same company.

Edited by Shadow-MKII on 06/20/2013 23:36:08 MDT.

Ben Pearre
(fugue137) - MLife
Length mockup, courtesy of Hilleberg? on 07/05/2013 18:04:56 MDT Print View

@Tjaard:

You share my concern with the lengths of tents, although I am shorter than you (at a mere 188 cm). 220 cm, which seems to be the most often mentioned floor length for Roger's tent, is conveniently also the floor length of most of the Hilleberg line. So if you can find one of those on display, it may be useful to you.

For me, the Kaitum (vertical ends, both protected by vestibules, like Roger's design) is significantly longer than I need even after snowfall, whereas their Nallo/Nammatj/Anjan (also 220 cm floor length, with one vertical end and one sloping end) are too short even without snow when I'm sleeping on my back (side sleepers may be shorter), even without a 7-cm air pad. Perhaps you can find a store that sells Hilleberg and see whether you can use the Kaitum as a mock-up of Roger's tent.

Note, however, that the Kaitum 2 has a floor width of 140 cm, although it slopes only inward from there, not outward like Roger's. So I'm not sure how different Roger's design will feel; I suspect that it'll be just fine, even if the nominal width ends up being a little narrower...

@Roger:

I'm very excited to see that your tent will finally be available to us less-skilled folk! Congratulations! If a large group pre-order would help keep Easton's enthusiasm up, please count me in, even sight unseen.

By the way--does it have a PU floor, or silnylon, or...? Silnylon is frustrating unless the campsite is perfectly flat--does it offer enough strength/weight/abrasion advantage to make the annoyance worth it? It seems to me that tent fabrics that absorb as little water as possible are important to keeping the effective weight down; I know silnylon absorbs a fair amount but I don't know how PU fares in this regard. I hear Cuben is pretty good... ;)

Edited by fugue137 on 07/05/2013 21:30:22 MDT.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Length mockup, courtesy of Hilleberg? on 07/05/2013 21:50:32 MDT Print View

Hi Ben

> does it have a PU floor, or silnylon,
Don't know yet. Most likely silnylon as the PU coating typically halves the strength of the fabric.
We are still working to find a suitable factory. The Chinese are good at the pop-ups which they know; they do not seem to be good at upgrading quality. Yet.

Cheers

Ben Pearre
(fugue137) - MLife
Colour? on 07/09/2013 23:06:07 MDT Print View

Hi Roger et al,

What colour is the tent to be?

How can tent colour matter? Here's what I can think of, but I am pretty sure the list is incomplete, and I'd love to hear what others think. (Apologies if I've missed this conversation elsewhere. I've seen a couple of these points raised in the fora here, but never all in one place.)

* Outside colour:

- Low visibility:

+ low-impact camping principles suggest that tents should be inconspicuous so the landscape is not polluted by unnatural colours, especially during peak season in high-use areas.

+ possibly valuable for safety through stealth when you're not in trouble, in certain parts of the world.

- High visibility:

+ may keep others from accidentally camping too close to you in high-use areas.

+ easier discovery by SAR when you're in trouble.

+ safety if you pitch the tent where there's fast traffic (snowmobilers or downhill skiers?).

- Darker colours heat up faster in the sun: better chimney effect? (who uses tents in the sun, anyway?) and dry faster.

+ How does colour affect radiative cooling at night?

* Inside colour:

- Bright/cheery (yellow, cream, etc) to keep spirits up if one is tentbound waiting out a storm (maybe not much of an issue for summer tents? But I've seen one or two summer storms where that might be a nice option. Never camped in them, though).

- Light colours make it easier to hunt down infiltrating mosquitos.

- Dark colours dry faster if exposed to the sun (probably not an issue except for separate canopy+fly pitching?).

Double-wall tents usually present different colours to outside vs. inside, but that's difficult (although perhaps not technically impossible, but presumably at high weight and/or monetary cost) for a single-wall.

So what are good colour choices for a single-wall tent? My hunch is that a light gray granite type of colour might be a fair compromise between liveability and inconspicuousness... Your summer tent is bright blue, which I would think wouldn't really speak well to any of the criteria I've listed (blue doesn't even scream "Rescue me!"). What am I not thinking of? I suspect you have some rather well-thought-out reasons. More importantly, I'd love to start a bar brawl over tent colour ;)