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Adam Kilpatrick
(oysters) - MLife

Locale: South Australia
Re: Re: Go for palatial luxury with the extra weight on 06/10/2012 23:05:22 MDT Print View

I agree.

Go with the dimensions you've come up with Roger. You've come to them because they work. And these are niche products. If people want more room, buy a different, bigger, heavier tent. I want this tent, and have, for like, forever!

I wouldn't worry about appealing to the masses too much. There are plenty of tents out there for the masses. I can see these things developing a CULT following amongst hardcore bushwalkers heading to the wetter, windier parts of Aus and NZ. Its top of the list for my next Tassie trip.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Go for palatial luxury with the extra weight - not on 06/11/2012 02:01:40 MDT Print View

Hi Adam

Thanks for the comments.

Checking my gear, it seems that I need to add about 100 mm at both the head and foot ends of a body to allow for the thickness of the bag or quilt. Beyond that the fabric touches the end walls of the groundsheet (NOT the tent), but that does not collect condensation in my experience. So a 2,200 mm long groundsheet caters for a person up to 2,000 m (6' 7") tall - which is going to cover an awful lot of the population.

Looking at many other tents on the market it seems that there aren't many with a groundsheet longer than 2,200 mm, which is encouraging. It should be noted that the longer you make the groundsheet, the bigger the footprint or tent site required. That can be a problem in some places. However, not final.

What is more important is to ensure the tent is wide enough for two people - plus some gear down the outside edges. Having some gear space at the sides is very important in my experience. The gear insulates the side of your quilt and stops you rolling off the mat/pad as well. My previous suggestion of a width of 1100 mm seems to be definitely inadequate. (Mistake, actually.)

I don't think there is any chance of a 60" width for the groundsheet on the summer tent - this is meant to be UL after all, but it certainly should be a bit wider than the 1100 mm. Of course, as the tent gets wider it gets heavier. But 1250 mm width might be more appropriate? That gives ~100 mm on the outside of a mat, each side, for gear.

Staying under 1.2 kg for tent+poles will mean we have to look very carefully at the fabrics used. That will take some time.

By the way - while my shoulders are wide enough, my feet aren't. So in practice there is an acre of space down at the foot end of the tent for any amount of gear.

Cheers

Jim Colten
(jcolten) - M

Locale: MN
Re: Go for palatial luxury with the extra weight - not on 06/11/2012 03:11:07 MDT Print View

A 60 inch (1524mm) floor width IS a bit much to ask for in this shelter. 1250mm would be noticeably more comfortable than 1100mm.

But I gotta continue to disagree about length. When upright our feet are perpendicular to our legs, not so when prone ... feet point away from the head. The result being that we're longer when prone than we're tall when upright. That is easily measured.

I'm not arguing in favor of any particular length ... only about the height of the person who will fit on the 2200mm long groundsheet.

Allowing for 100mm on each end seems very reasonable for the thickness of a sleeping bag that'd be used in the summer tent. Perhaps 130mm for a bag that'd more likely be used in a winter tent? Even more if your audience includes those who camp well below 0F.

Simone Zmood
(sim1oz) - MLife

Locale: Melbourne, Australia
Great news on 06/11/2012 05:21:34 MDT Print View

Hi Roger,
Congratulations on linking up with Easton to bring your tents to the UL masses! Count me in for a winter tent. :-) I'll hand the Olympus down to my kids... Width won't be an issue for us as my husband is the most important part of my cold weather sleep system.
Looking forward to 2014!

twig .
(bretthartwig) - MLife

Locale: Australia
Re: Re: Go for palatial luxury with the extra weight on 06/11/2012 06:20:56 MDT Print View

The only problem I see is that it's haunted, hopefully that's a friendly ghost standing behind your wife.

Stuart R
(Scunnered) - F

Locale: Scotland
Re: Re: Go for palatial luxury with the extra weight - not on 06/11/2012 07:28:38 MDT Print View

A very respected 2p tent here is the TN Vogager Superlite. This has groundsheet dimensions of 2060mm long, 1160mm wide at the sholders and 880mm at the feet. It is quite big enough for a pair of 6'+ guys.
You tent is much wider and higher at the foot end, and has outward sloping walls for the first 300mm up, so you really don't need any wider at the sholder.
You don't need lots of extra length either, just to accomodate a 6'6" back/front sleeper.

Good tents are expensive so for a given weight I'd rather have more durable materials than an extra 100mm I could manage without (and I'm 6'1").

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: Go for palatial luxury with the extra weight on 06/11/2012 16:46:49 MDT Print View

Hi Brett

> The only problem I see is that it's haunted, hopefully that's a friendly ghost standing
> behind your wife.
Yeah - he keeps the Drop Bears away.

Cheers

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: Go for palatial luxury with the extra weight - not on 06/11/2012 16:48:19 MDT Print View

Hi Stuart

> A very respected 2p tent here is the TN Vogager Superlite.
Thanks for the dimensions. Very interesting.

Cheers

James Klein
(jnklein21) - M

Locale: Southeast
dimensions on 06/11/2012 20:23:36 MDT Print View

Your design is extremely effiecent at maximizing height over the area of your footprint. I think we should keep that in mind when comparing that to other tents. I personally, like your v10 dimensions and vote for them -- the picture provide makes it look like a palace compared to my 2 person tent.

Regardless, it will be knocked if it can't fit (2) 25" airmats side by side -- I bet 1250mm would hold two of these. For the length, I wonder would it cost to have a R and L option?? Say on for 6" and one for 6'6"ish....

Warren Greer
(WarrenGreer) - F

Locale: SoCal
Length on 06/11/2012 20:30:08 MDT Print View

I'll only add that in my experience with the two people I hike with, they are 6'4" and 6'7". I'm barely 5'10", but can't use a multi-person tent with either of them if the tent is too short. There are many people over 6' and probably on into the 6'2-6'4" range. If you add a measely 4" on each end of that you have 6'10" to 7'0" as a total length for the inner tent.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: dimensions on 06/11/2012 22:15:44 MDT Print View

Hi James

> it will be knocked if it can't fit (2) 25" airmats side by side -
Please tell - where does one find a 25" (635 mm) airmat??? The only mats around 25" that I have ever seen have been huge and very heavy car-camping things. What have I missed?

As far as I can make out, the standard width for a walker's mat seems to be ~520 mm (20.5"), with some coming in narrower (eg NeoAir).

Cheers

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Length on 06/11/2012 22:20:21 MDT Print View

Hi Warren

You problem puzzles me. 6' 7" is ~2,000 mm. Add 100 mm at each end for down, and you get 2,200 mm. Why can't you get two of you into a tent of that length? What am I missing?

Cheers

Tad Englund
(bestbuilder) - F - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest
Re: Re: dimensions on 06/11/2012 23:55:04 MDT Print View

Roger, the Exped Synmat7 is approx 25" inflated and when hiking in the North Cascades almost any time of years it can get close to 0*c. One would/could use a summer tent and their sleeping pad could be a Synmat or the like.
My concern also is it appears that more manufactures might be coming out with lightweight large/deluxe sized pads.
If you ignore this you might be narrowing you market more that necessary.
Yet, looking at the outward slope of the tub floor this all might be a moot issue that will be taken care of with your stated adjustment to 1250 mm.
I think the length is just fine (I'm 190cm tall) and I find no problems- the vestibules take care of gear storage and such.
For someone 7 foot tall, they can stick their feet into the vestibule. The door screens and a little extra netting will still keep the bugs at bay and everyone is happy.

Warren Greer
(WarrenGreer) - F

Locale: SoCal
It's the conversion thing on 06/11/2012 23:57:02 MDT Print View

We were supposed to go metric when I was in grade school. The effect was the two liter bottle we have for soda (and not much else I can think of). So, you'll forgive me if your measurements add up to what I chimed in with. Just looking at it from inches and feet. So, sounds like your tent will work for most. If Shaq or Kobi or some other tall dudes take up UL backpacking, they can get there own custom made from you.

Roger, good on ya!

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: dimensions on 06/12/2012 00:41:36 MDT Print View

Hi Tad

> the Exped Synmat7 is approx 25" inflated
Ah ... I measured the Exped Synmat UL 7 at 520 mm, inflated. For the details, see
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/exped_downmat_pump_synmat_ul

Hum????

Cheers

Stuart R
(Scunnered) - F

Locale: Scotland
Re: Re: Re: Re: Go for palatial luxury with the extra weight - not on 06/12/2012 03:15:43 MDT Print View

Hi Roger

Another 2p dbl wall tunnel tent that I own in the Vaude Ferret 1 Ultralight (the original version). This really is palatial for two and altho' the extra space is nice, it comes in at a hefty 2.0kg.

ferret floorplan

You may also be interested in Lightwave tents (http://www.lightwave.uk.com/en/tents_overview.php) as they specialise in quality tunnel tents for 3/4 season use, but again >2kg.

cheers

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Go for palatial luxury with the extra weight - not on 06/12/2012 05:07:12 MDT Print View

Hi Stuart

> This really is palatial for two
While only 1250 x 2250 mm ? I would have thought so myself. Only a single vestibule. But how does it go as a winter tent? (Yeah, only 2 poles, I know.)

Cheers

Stuart R
(Scunnered) - F

Locale: Scotland
Re: Go for palatial luxury with the extra weight - not on 06/12/2012 08:04:40 MDT Print View

>> This really is palatial for two
> While only 1250 x 2250 mm ? I would have thought so myself
Am I missing something here? (sarcasm? :-)

> Only a single vestibule
Yes, the vestibule could be bigger to fit 2 packs, 2 pairs boots and still have room to cook

> But how does it go as a winter tent?
+ roomy
+ double wall
- small vestibule
-- susceptible to turbulent wind

End on to the wind it's good, but in turbulent wind it is suceptible to strong gusts, as you might guess. However, the only damage inflicted has been a little permanent bend in the poles. I rate it as a good 3 season tent, but it's not a winter mountain tent.
Edit to add: I almost forgot, it pitches inner and fly together, which makes it very quick to put up. Many times I have been very thankful of that whilst been eaten by midges!

Edited by Scunnered on 06/12/2012 15:28:03 MDT.

James Klein
(jnklein21) - M

Locale: Southeast
Re: Re: dimensions on 06/12/2012 11:03:45 MDT Print View

Roger, most airmat come with various different size options...typically including a L.

Neoairs, prolite, big agnes...all have 24"or 25" option...

The measurements you link to in you SOTM report are for a small mat - they have a 26" wide option as well.

The actual width may be less of course.

Ryan Christman
(radio_guy) - MLife

Locale: OH & AK
Wow! on 06/12/2012 22:15:36 MDT Print View

This is great. Congratulations Roger! I have been interested in trying tunnel designs for adverse climates. Now I am really interested!