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Best practice consensus: adding a frame for Jam?
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Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: Funny how "ultra-light" doesn't work out on 06/26/2012 12:56:21 MDT Print View

ultra light works out just fine as long as one stays within the parameters of what can be realistically (comfortably) carried. if you bought the Jam thinking this will be great for carrying out 1/2 of a boned out elk you've made a serious error in judgement

if on the other hand you occasionally exceed the carrying capacity of your pack and you're looking for a workaround without purchasing a new pack, having a lightweight frame, that is removable when not needed is right in line with ultralight thinking

there is rumor that Golite might just follow this lead and build a lightweight pack w/ a removable frame, of course that could be just a lot of hype :)

back at Gary, not following you why locating the frame within the loops of the load lifters would impact fit lower- maybe I should post a pic, the Pinnacle comes w/ load lifters that are roughly in line w/ the hydration ports

Mike

Gary Dunckel
(Zia-Grill-Guy) - MLife

Locale: Boulder
Frame stay attached to load lifters on 06/26/2012 13:21:21 MDT Print View

Mike, a photo of what you are thinking of would help me visualize things. My thinking is that if you thread the aluminum stay through the loops on your load lifters first, then it would be nearly impossible to run the stay through the compression strap loops and then down to the tubular webbing. But if you insert the stay into these first, and then disassemble the load lifters and attach the stay to them last, then it could work, right? Can you disassemble the load lifters? Maybe I just have brain-lock here... Please post a photo of whatever you come up with, Mike.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: Frame stay attached to load lifters on 06/26/2012 16:59:02 MDT Print View

OK now I'm w/ you :) the frame fit really nicely through the loops, but you're correct that would make it impossible to weave through the loops on the compression straps, could make the loops out of velcro and then you could attach it that way, but I think simply nylon strap loops would be easiest

Gary- did you just cut a little length off the existing compression straps to make the loops? also your bottom attachments points- are they on the interior of the belt? does that cause any problems w/ the belt? could the pockets be located on the outside where the belt meets the pack?

thanks

Gary Dunckel
(Zia-Grill-Guy) - MLife

Locale: Boulder
Frame stay attached to load lifter on 06/26/2012 17:34:46 MDT Print View

Mike, I just folded the compression straps over, making the loops--I didn't cut anything. I sewed them together with kevlar thread, for overkill strength, but heavy duty nylon thread would work as well.

I chose to place the tubular webbing on the inside of the hip belt, mainly for esthetics (to hide them). It's easier to find the existing pack seam when placing it on the inside. All of my mod stitches were placed into existing pack seams for strength. The mesh pocket on the outside sort of interferes with finding the seam on that side of the hip belt. As for the fit, I don't feel the stay much at all-- perhaps only if I was "doing the Twist" without the hip belt cinched up, then I can barely feel the very bottom of the stay. If you place yours on the outside it would give you a smidge more room at the hips, but not much more. And if you place the sleeves on the outside, and then beef up the hip pads like I did, you won't feel the rods at all, no matter how crazy you dance.

Let me know if I can be of further help, Mike.

PS--I'll be hitting a few trails in YNP in August (Rescue Cr., H*llroaring Cr, and Lamar R. in the north, and Fan Cr. and Specimen Cr. on the west side)). Any goofy griz incidents so far this year? I talked with Jim Williams, the head BC ranger in Mammoth, and he indicated that the melt-out was early and that things are rapidly getting dry. With the weather this year so radically different from 2011, I'm curious as to whether the bears will get all psycho again. I hate when that happens...

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
loops on 06/26/2012 19:02:08 MDT Print View

ahhh- good idea :) my first order of business is find someone who can sew

no bear incidents yet (knock on wood), it is shaping up to be a potential bad year for fires though- they had three going in Bozeman area yesterday- we hit a balmy 111 today in Miles City :(

Nathan Hays
(oroambulant)

Locale: San Francisco
My mod not enough on 07/01/2012 13:53:48 MDT Print View

Just hiked 40 miles at 40 Lbs with the internal frame replacement I posted earlier. It is not enough - the load lifters are basically useless except to keep the pack from flopping back when unloaded. The frame I made only goes up to the attach point of the shoulder straps.

My design is great for stiffening the whole pack, including laterally. I like having the curved shape across the back maintained. However, it was difficult to get the weight off my shoulders. That's what load lifters are supposed to do.
Your design correctly shifts weight from the load lifters to the hips. I'm going to rework...

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
procrastinate :) on 03/14/2013 16:17:57 MDT Print View

finally got this done- only w/ a snowshoe trip looming a week out :)

I made small loops in the compression straps like Gary, but instead a tube of webbing I folding over a small section of the upper mesh pocket to make another loop and then sewed a little pocket at the bottom of the pack- looks like it's going to work

 photo pinnaclewframe_zpsf9639f67.jpg

 photo frameloopsdetail_zps7df8b4d7.jpg

 photo framepocket_zpsa722b180.jpg

Gary Dunckel
(Zia-Grill-Guy) - MLife

Locale: Boulder
Jam mods on 03/15/2013 11:24:22 MDT Print View

Great work, Mike! Did you do something on the inside of the pack to secure the stay to the load lifters? I can't quite visualize what you did at the bottom of the pack to lock the stay onto the hip belt, but I assume that it works. Is this the pack you will take next week? We'll need a photo essay from you intrepid Montanans, you know. Have some good fun.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: Jam mods on 03/15/2013 13:23:40 MDT Print View

Gary- I didn't secure the stay to the load lifters, but they way it's situated in the Pinnacle there is only a tiny bit of slack before the hydration ports against the stay fully restrict any more downward movement- if I was more proficient w/ thread and needle I think I probably would have

the frame stays in pretty well as is, but to insure it does stay locked in I simply took the small mitten hook that's for hanging a bladder and went over the stay and back into the elastic of the bladder sleeve- it's in there pretty solid


 photo hooktoframe_zps4fdc3e45.jpg

yup this what I'll be using next weekend- wanted to get this pack ready as my Osprey is a little shy on volume for "winter" outings, and I wanted the frame on the Pinnacle as it looks like snowshoes are going to be both worn and carried on this trip- I think the frame will help w/ the additional weight

I plan on taking a lot of pics (of course I'm the guy who left my camera in the tent on our recent Joshua Tree run!!!!!!!!!)

Mike

Ben 2 World
(ben2world) - MLife

Locale: So Cal
Re: Re: Jam mods on 03/15/2013 13:57:30 MDT Print View

Very cool. Have fun, and report back!!

Brandon =Þ
(Beeen) - MLife

Locale: California
Re: Re: Jam mods on 03/15/2013 14:04:55 MDT Print View

+1 on being interested in how this works out.

Gary Dunckel
(Zia-Grill-Guy) - MLife

Locale: Boulder
Pinnacle mods on 03/15/2013 14:23:10 MDT Print View

Good idea about tying the stay to the bladder sleeve. I wondered why I didn't think about doing that. Then I checked my Jam and found out why--I'd already hacked out the bladder sleeve and mitten hook strap earlier--hmmm...

Anyway, Mike, your pack looks sweet, and I expect you'll appreciate the way the Pinnacle now carries, and at such a small weight addition. Thanks to Brendan Swihart for enabling us!

Brandon =Þ
(Beeen) - MLife

Locale: California
Re: Jam 70L Internal Frame mod on 03/15/2013 14:38:34 MDT Print View


....
"After reading the OP, I bought a 6 foot x 1/4" soft aluminum rod and bent it to match the stock stiffener. The rod is solid, so it weighs 125g (4.4 oz) which is a lot more than the other post's stays. I removed the stock stiffener so the additional weight is 71g/2.5oz. It slips in where the stock stiffener goes although I had to bend it to get it in. That makes it less than removable. Nothing needed to be sewn.
....
"




--------------------------

Anybody try a variation on this idea mentioned in this thread by Nathan Hays?

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
frame on 03/15/2013 18:00:37 MDT Print View

reading Nathan's post again sounded it like it worked well except the stay wasn't high enough to shift weight off of his shoulders- perhaps the same design only make the hooped portion at top taller????