This may be stupid question. I'll be camping in moraine park campground in RMNP in September. I have a hilleberg tent that is not cheap. Is it generally safe to leave it while you are day hiking only? It would be pain in butt to break down an put in car each morning. Is theft generally a problem in campgrounds?

I would not leave my stuff unattended in a drive in campground.

Depends. For Yosemite backpacker campground you're told to leave your tent up when you reserve your site as an "I'm here, taking this spot", and a lot of other people leave theirs all day. Personally? Screw that, if you want a tent to just leave up the whole time, and are doing dayhikes from a car, just buy an el cheapo tent, leave the fancy gear at home. my 2c

Probability of someone walking away with your whole staked- down tent in RMNP is really low. Like almost zero. If anything, we're to get stolen, It'd be loose, easy to snatch stuff like a sleeping bag that wouldn't be immediately noticed. Even that likelihood is extremely low.
We are talking about a fee-entry Nat'l park and a ranger patrolled campground.

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Edited by RogerDodger on 06/14/2012 16:54:36 MDT.

Man, I totally dig the hippie comment! I see packs of bell bottomed, tie died, long hairs roaming National Parks all wacked out on 'shooms and Mary Jane. They really need a hair cut, a job and to get behind Nixon. I love the smell of patchouli in the morning, it smells like victory . . . .

I go with the cheapo tent when car camping, and leave anything valuable locked in the car if I leave for the day. I highly doubt anyone would steal your staked down tent, especially in a patrolled National Park campground... but there's a first for everything.

"Hippies like to do mellow drugs such as acid as pot in the national parks because its natural. and they get stupid ideas to mess with your stuff.

if you've been a lucky guy all your life, it won't happen to you, but if Murphy's law applies to you... some teenagers are gonna be making babies in your tent.
"

Stereotype much? Just curious, have you actually heard from a reliable source about a single instance of hippies taking a "mellow" drug like acid and fornicating in other people's tents in a NP?

Hippies come in two flavors in my experience.

Really cool mellow folks who just want to live and let live, eat some biodynamic local organic pizza, and smoke a bowl. They wouldn't do it because they don't want to harsh your day, and are generally cool folks.

Super angry trust fund kids who protest everything, can't calm down, and don't get the happy dynamic that the other group does. They wouldn't do it unless there was media coverage and it was a protest. They might steal your stuff, if you represent something they don't like. Generally they just want to be seen, and make others (mom and dad) angry to make their point. They verge on anarchists.

I have never heard about any instance of hippies getting down in somebody else's tent. I have run into lots of the first group out here on the trails when I was going to school in Eugene. I don't always sync with their dogma, but they are usually good neighbors on the trail. And genuinely concerned with the world around them, for as long as they can focus their attention span.

Now if you park an unoccupied tent at the Oregon Country Faire for a day, I think you have a higher probability chance of seeing this happen. Just hope that they practice LNT. :)

K

Edited by keith_bassett on 06/06/2012 10:27:40 MDT.

I have never had an issue with theft in a campground or heard of anyones camping stuff getting stolen.

I have heard of peoples electronics, wallets and purses getting stolen from cars parked at trailheads. I leave my tent set up with all the sleeping stuff, chairs, tarps etc at my campsite when I leave for the day. I have done this throughout the North Western US and Canada without ever having an inicident.

I would suspect issues with animals, especially rodents, or UV damage in wide open camp grounds is a far greater risk than someone stealing your tent.

The people who know the acutal value of the equipment generally aren't theives. Theives go after mass market appeal like electronics that can be flipped quickly.

For me its not worth worrying about.

Puerile ad hominems are usually thrown by egos needing to compensate for their social inadequacy. Have you been feeling atavistic lately? Random shotgun blasts only make it worse. They puff you up but rot out your core. Try humility - builds character from within rather than knocking down the forest around you.

Plus one on Keith's comment. Well said

We car camp a lot and have never had a problem with anything missing - not even firewood. If you're really concerned you can do what my sister does. She car camps alone a lot but always puts up two chairs around her fire. Even if someone watches her drive away there's always the question: "Is the other person in the tent?"

Having the two chairs may seem like a silly idea, but it's probably enough to make someone go elsewhere.

With that said, we were in Shenandoah National Park camping over Memorial Day (at Big Meadows) and we saw something I'd never seen before. The people at the campsite across the street were gone for the day but had left their coolers and other food out on their picnic table. A Ranger saw it and then took everything that had food in it away (including going into the tent and through all the bags there). He left them a citation with a note telling them where they could pick up their coolers and food boxes. He was clearly unhappy, but they deserved it.

So - No problems leaving your gear, but make sure you comply with the local regulations (which were very clearly stated at Shenandoah National Park) if you're leaving your campsite for anything more than a call of nature.

Pretty much a non-issue in most campgrounds. However, coolers are a target for thieves who are looking for beer and such (where coolers are allowed to be left out).

I often leave my camper unattended in campgrounds or even dispersed campsites, using it as a base camp for backpacking trips. Sometimes I will leave it the camper unattended for several days. I leave stuff outside the camper, to make it look like I am not gone for a long period of time, and to try to avoid the nasty note from the Ranger that a camper cannot be left unattended for more than 24 hours.

Also if you are in a busy campground, your neighbors will usually look out for your stuff if you ask. Generally most campers are as nice as the folks here on BPL.

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Edited by RogerDodger on 06/14/2012 16:55:06 MDT.

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Edited by RogerDodger on 06/14/2012 16:55:37 MDT.

Nathan-

I'm pretty sure that the original hippie comment was tongue-in-cheek. Maybe follow your own advice and mellow out a bit? :)

That said, I've always had a lot more trouble from redneck white boys than from hippies or "certain demographics." Yes, I've run across a few dreadlocked scumbags (who were probably NOT hippies in any way) who have given me pause, but my experience leads me to consider the dude with the Larry-the-Cable-Guy wardrobe to be the bigger threat.

Edited by acrosome on 06/07/2012 07:26:06 MDT.

So this Rodger Dodger fella is not only angry about "hippies," but brown people too? Great. Thinly veiled racism much?

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Edited by RogerDodger on 06/14/2012 16:56:38 MDT.

Racism isn't just saying directly racial things. But your language screams thinly veiled racism.
" a large very large family of a certain demographic" that you compare to a swarm of locusts.
"Language barrier too"

Give me a break.

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Edited by RogerDodger on 06/14/2012 16:57:49 MDT.

Sorry, but I have to have a MAJOR laugh at the stereotypes shooting around in this thread.

As a shameless user of both substances, NO ONE on LSD or Marijuana is going to be more inclined to STEAL than they would if they were sober. NO ONE. If you are a sociopath, then you will still be a sociopath. But chemically, these substances will INCREASE feelings of empathy, compassion, and well-being within your brain, if anything.

What you have far more to worry about is alcohol. How many violent crimes have been caused by alcohol? MILLIONS.

I think anyone who is going to judge someone by what they choose to put in their body is just plain ignorant. Spend some time talking to folks on the trail and you realize everyone has a story, everyone comes from a different place, and everyone is different. I personally think being vegan is silly, for example, but if it makes someone else happy, then great! We need more happiness in the world!

Edited by Scalawag on 06/07/2012 14:43:52 MDT.

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Edited by RogerDodger on 06/14/2012 16:59:49 MDT.

" a large very large family of a certain demographic" that you compare to a swarm of locusts.
"Language barrier too"

All of which could apply to squirrels?

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Edited by RogerDodger on 06/14/2012 16:58:20 MDT.

Why risk it with your very expensive super ultra light gear, especially since you are day hiking. This is a high traffic camp area.. Take the stuff the loss of which will bring no tears.

Edited by johnk on 06/07/2012 18:35:49 MDT.

"Take the stuff the loss of which will bring no tears."

Better yet, hike some place where it's not a concern.

Chris:
"Sorry, but I have to have a MAJOR laugh at the stereotypes shooting around in this thread.

As a shameless user of both substances, NO ONE on LSD or Marijuana is going to be more inclined to STEAL than they would if they were sober. NO ONE. If you are a sociopath, then you will still be a sociopath. But chemically, these substances will INCREASE feelings of empathy, compassion, and well-being within your brain, if anything.

What you have far more to worry about is alcohol. How many violent crimes have been caused by alcohol? MILLIONS. "


As someone who has lived in a house full of "hippies", as someone that lives in Santa Cruz County and works at UCSC, I agree with Chris' statement above. Much more trouble with alcohol.

I have car camped in many national parks. ( well 8 of them) I have always left my tent up while I am out doing my daily exploring.. I have never had a problem with people bothering my stuff. Never even worried about it. Most people in the campgrounds do the same..

Lol. The only problem I ever had was is Yosemite. It wasn't with humans tho. We came back and as I was crawling into my side of the tent, I noticed something white on the ground about 20 feet behind the tent ( which was in the back of the campground). A squirrel had went into the vestibule of my tent and had went thru the open duffle I had setting there ( my own stupidity). It was my silk thermal shirt. I was lucky I came back when we did and scared it into dropping it.

My dad still likes to tell the story but likes to tell people that a big wild animal went thru the tent and stole my white underwear!

I am going to Yellowstone in about a week and will leave my tent up during the day.

If you are really worried about it. Keep the valuables in the car and put a small lock on the tent zippers

Hel

I've never had any issues car camping in national parks. Just keep the electronics & food in the car when not in camp.

Only camping theft I've experience was about 40 years ago at the parking lot for the Snow Lakes Trailhead to Enchantment Lakes, along Icicle Creek Road out of Leavenworth, WA.

We left our VW Beetle at the parking lot for about 4 days or so while we backpacked into the Enchantments --- after first checking at Leavenworth USFS ranger station for any reports of animal issues in the area.

In retrospect, should have asked about people issues at the trailhead, too.

When we came out from a great trip into the Enchantments, we discovered our Beetle (which we had left locked) had been broken into, with the vent window jimmied open and the glove compartment accessed to pop open the front hood. Our luggage had been rummaged through (we were on an extended trip that included continuing to North Cascades NP for another backpacking trip after we came out of the Enchantments).

We were lucky the VW could be "broken into" without breaking anything.

There were at least two dozen additional vehicles parked in the parking lot, and every one of them had been really "broken into" with windows smashed out in every one of them.

A regular crime spree in a trailhead parking lot immediately off of a highway.

Returning to Leavenworth, we first called our credit card companies to report that our credit cards had been stolen.

Then we went to the Leavenworth USFS station to let them know there was a problem at the Snow Lakes trailhead parking lot. Response? Yep, they said, there's been a problem with break-ins at that lot all summer.

Well, gee, I thought to myself, thanks a lot for the non-warning earlier when we had checked in before our trip.

Upon going through our luggage later that day, we found the culprits had overlooked our credit cards after all. Unfortunately, that discovery was too late since we had already reported the cards stolen and couldn't use them for the rest of our trip.

At another time, a few years earlier, I had reason to appreciate the honesty of folks who actually hike into the backcountry. My camera got "forgotten" on the ground at the start of a climbing pitch in the Tetons. Some nice person found it and left it at Jenny Lake ranger station -- where it was waiting for me when we checked-in after our climb.

Wouldn't be too surprised, though, if the increase in folks hiking into the backcountry these days doesn't include some who aren't so honest -- at least when it's within a day hike of the trailhead.

That's unfortunate, but seems that's the way it is nowadays.

Edited by JRScruggs on 06/08/2012 03:07:19 MDT.

No. I live 30 minutes from RMNP and I've camped there plenty of times. Nobody is going to mess with your stuff.

I have no clue where half of you go camping to be afraid of someone taking your stuff. And it's sad that when you go, you actually worry about that stuff. I mostly camp on forest service land here in Colorado, Montana, Wyoming, and New Mexico and have never had any of my stuff taken or even touched. In fact, the only time anyone has ever moved my stuff were the rangers in Yellowstone and that was a gallon jug of water because they are just stupid bear crazy around there.

BTW....this thread is kind of sickening.

Edited by rps76 on 06/09/2012 12:02:42 MDT.

"...I love the smell of patchouli in the morning..."

LOL - I do love me some patchouli!!! but based on this thread, I guess I better not take it with me into the wild, I don't want to be confused with a gear-stealing, whacked-out hippie and shot by "larry-the-cable-guy," who I belive apends his free time in drag.

Roger, while I don't condone stealing...wow you guys let them WALK AWAY WITH YOUR STUFF?!?!

Typical for your demographic

Joseph for the WIN!

Joseph,

Good one, brah!

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Edited by RogerDodger on 06/14/2012 16:58:55 MDT.

John H Brann, I wouldn't leave a 500 dollar tent in a car camping space, just the same way as I wouldn't leave a stack of 20s sitting there unattended. Seems pretty basic. Cheap tents are so cheap now that there's no excuse to do that. Plus sun wear on the nylon, and all that. Just get a cheap car camping tent, they are heavy and will last a long time if you get a decent one. Same for the gear inside. I've had stuff ripped off before, I don't even like leaving my gear unattended once on the trail and camping out there, especially not expensive ultralight gear, or stuff that I made that took a lot of work to do.

I'll agree with others, the people I fear camping are the ones who drink. Especially drinkers of cheap canned beer or whiskey. Plus they are the worst ones in terms of respecting the environment and their neighbors at night. Hippies, I'll take them any time, never met a hippy backpacking I didn't like at least to some degree, which is way more than I can say for certain other groups. And tripping hippies, even more entertaining, what more can you ask for? Did I mention the LA type A type ultralighter I ran into who wouldn't carry back some failed gear for me that weighed probably 3 ounces while I was heading in a few miles from the trail head? Or the hippies who offered me a ride back when I shared a tale of woe, but as I was heading in, and they out, I declined. So yeah, I'll take the hippies, with all their flaws, at least they appreciate where they are.

Why are you hating on the cheap beer?? What did miller high life or shafer do to you? Its the sweet nectar of life! Some even call it mothers milk...

Theft in sites does happen, according to Rangers and the logs. It's much more common in large campsites or areas, such as on the valley floor in Yosemite, for example.

Up in the high country, with less people and at least some semblance of the camraderie of the outdoors, I think it's a lot less common. However, I've met hikers who have complained of food being stolen from a sealed bear canister (probably not Yogi, eh?).

In So Cal, although that racist Roger was too politically correct to note it, it's usually hordes of French people, swarming like locusts and claiming they can't speak English as they rifle through things, steal the pate' and scarf down our soda pops. If challenged, they get all indignant and it turns out they do speaky some of the English! Here's one recorded by cameras at Burnt Rancheria on the PCT and transcribed for the public: when the greasy little frogs were challenged, their leader cried, "You don't frighten us, English pig dogs. Go and boil your bottoms, you sons of a silly person. I blow my nose at you!" The through-hikers weren't even English, you racist demographogogues!

Anyway, better to let them move along. Don't mess with le fronch.

Yep. Hippies are generally good people, who actually like other people. I tend to enjoy their company. But I am a mother earth news loving organic eating middle aged guy from the PNW.

As for theft, it doesn't happen as often when you are on a rarely traveled location, that is hard to get to. It happens more often when there is easy access where people can use their car to get away with your stuff. Plan accordingly. :)

And as for the comment earlier in this thread that things are getting a bit sickening - I am with you. Lets put this to bed. Sometimes people do bad things and steal your stuff. All races, ethnicities, and belief communities sometimes contain bad people.

end of story.