Marc,
"I could pull the tips off..."

I assume you mean the TOPS?


[I ask because new MSR stakes have Tips and Tops.]

Edited by greg23 on 07/02/2012 18:39:29 MDT.

Set up a couple of tents and an ID bivvy in the snow this last w/e.
We had Easton , MSR blizzard and similar slightly larger stakes as well as the ToughStakes.
The easiest to use were the Easton (new and old) , we did not use the ToughStakes because the first tent we did had one end in shallow snow and those did not work .
( I was going to do some tests with those ToughStakes but ended up playing with a new stove and doing other things and forgot all about that...)
Franco
BTW, I did a quick calculation of how many thousands of those Easton stakes TT have shipped out.
If indeed the problem was as widespread as some think we would have had hundreds of people complaining in the forums.
But I have had failures with them too , just like with most stakes I pound in the ground (except with the Y types but I have cut myself a few times with those and yes they can be a problem with fabric and or guylines rubbing against the sharp bits)
Franco
Out of curiosity I tested 141 stakes (6 of the new type , the other old type), all new, had 1 failure

Edited by Franco on 07/02/2012 21:26:55 MDT.

Yes, the tops (blue top on top of the gray aluminum stake).

Marc, PM sent.

11 of 16 bad isn't normal for us either. Rest assured, we are looking into this as we have never seen this frequency of failures before either, especially from the same package.

Since this thing came up, our QA and engineers have been working overtime to figure out the root cause and make sure that future shipments are right. Obviously, some bad product got out there and we will work with you and anyone else who may have received similarly bad stakes taken care of, this includes reaching out to whichever dealers who may have received similarly bad product that slipped through production, if needed. We are currently conducting a full investigation/inspection of all current inventory and we will take whatever action is needed to resolve the issue once we have sufficient data to know how extensive this is.

Regardless, until then we will get anyone taken care of ASAP with replacement good product. Sorry again for the trouble and I appreciate everyone's patience while we work through this.

Clint

I just got 4 of the 8" Nano stakes from from an online retailer this week and after reading this thread checked to see if the stakes I got had this problem. Sure enough, I was able to pull the heads off of 3 out of the 4 stakes that I got. I did this with bare hands and light to moderate pressure. It definitely was not a struggle.

Why does anyone think a two piece stake makes sense? Overcomplicating what we use to do with sticks. Certainly seems like product testing before release is lacking. Unless they do all their testing on consumers.

Ken,
You've followed this thread, so I know better, but otherwise you are sounding a bit like a troll.

Edited by greg23 on 07/03/2012 07:35:55 MDT.

Let's keep this thread on track.

Thanks to Easton as well.

Edited by WarrenGreer on 07/03/2012 19:32:21 MDT.

Sure. No trolling intended.

If people just on this site are pulling heads off brand new ones, how widespread is this problem? Just does not sound like enough testing was done before release. Or a flawed design(my vote).

And yes I am totally biased against these stakes. I have used and enjoyed many Easton products through the years. This is an unfortunate blemish on their record.

"Just does not sound like enough testing was done before release."

It is cheaper for a manufacturer to do a 100% test on the design than it is to do a 100% test on production.

Too often, a design is virtually 100% perfect, but then it goes to the factory for production. Sometimes the factory foreman is trying to cut production costs as much as possible, and sometimes it boils down to one item like epoxy sealant. Instead of using five drops, maybe they use only one drop. Or, sometimes the epoxy didn't get mixed up right, so they get five drops of Part A only. If the pot life of the epoxy is wrong, they get five drops of stuff that has already set up.

To get it right, it takes continuous sampling on production, and the factory foreman who is trying to keep up with the schedule at all costs gets fired.

Yes, I think I will take a 'wait and see' stance toward more Easton stakes until this washes out.

--B.G.--

I think you're on the right track Bob. I've got a couple of decades of experience with Easton products myself and from what I saw with these stakes it was a production and or QC issue. There was a tacky residue on the tubing after the heads came off that seemed to be "epoxy like" but was not set up. It gave me the impression of one part of a two part epoxy. My experience with Easton has been with their archery products, particularly aluminum and carbon arrow shafts. It's been my experience that with the proper component preparation (cleaning) and adhesive use, the components should be very difficult to separate under normal circumstances.

The design aspect of these two components is really pretty simplistic. My money is on a metal preparation or adhesive issue.

Scott

"It gave me the impression of one part of a two part epoxy."

I had a similar problem in a factory environment about thirty years ago. There was a machine that held epoxy Part A and epoxy Part B, and the operator simply pulled a lever, and the mixture was squirted into a cavity. What took a while to figure out was that the Part B nozzle was clogged, so it was only Part A that was filling the cavity. Needless to say, it didn't hold very good. Nobody even looked to see that the color was wrong for the 'mixture'. The factory for Easton might be seeing something as simple as this.

--B.G.--

Just to let everyone know, I received a more than adequate # of replacement stakes from Easton via Clint Walker. They are rock solid. As noted below, something had to have gone wrong with a batch of these at the manufacturer. I feel confident that the issue will be resolved. Thanks Clint. It is nice to see a manufacturer participate in these discussions and make every effort to correct a problem that arises.

I received 12 of the 6" Nanos from CampSaver this week.

I "tested" them in our driveway, which is compacted road base, much like some of the campsites at Phantom Ranch, or what is found on high alpine cobble.



As I do when I'm out in difficult country, I find a fist-sized rock and drive them in. I did this three times. All heads stayed on and solid. No 'click' when pulling them out or upon examination.

I don't recommend this procedure. I can usually just step on them. But this IS what I do when I have to.

I think this generation of Nanos shows promise.

BTW, my batch weighed in at 0.280 ounces each, averaged from 10 stakes.

Thanks Easton.

Edited by greg23 on 07/09/2012 21:39:35 MDT.

Very cool. Glad to see things resolved.

Waaaay off topic, and poor taste alert. First thing I thought of when I saw Greg's photo was Merry Christmas Mr Lawrence.

+1

Edited by greg23 on 07/09/2012 21:10:03 MDT.

Touche, Greg. All that's missing is the samurai sword and Ryuichi Sakamoto's haunting tunes.

I was looking at the website of an online retailer of the new Easton Nano Stakes. They had a package of four. Regular price $8.95, Sale $10.95.

Now I've lost faith in humanity.

--B.G.--

Well to address one comment- and I could very well be wrong- but I thought that the whole point of the Nano is that the "spike" is hollow like an arrow shaft, thus saving weight. This makes it pretty hard to mill the top on as one piece- it has to be attached separately somehow. If they milled the whole thing from one piece of solid aluminum it would be notably more heavy. (More expensive I'm not so sure about, but possibly. Which uses more labor, milling or epoxying?)

And also, I agree- if you can pull the heads off BY HAND then clearly they didn't get epoxied correctly. This is a manufacturing defect, not an inherent flaw of the design. Modern epoxies are hella strong.

Edited by acrosome on 07/24/2012 12:00:42 MDT.