Alcohol stoves have been used in Europe and England (and elsewhere) for decades, if not longer.

So far Europe and England have not burned to the ground, nor do we hear reports of alcohol stoves causing major fires over there.

I have to think the alarmism in this thread is overblown.

Well, European forests ARE different than western U.S. forests. So I'm not sure how strong an argument that is, but I get your point.

I can't find any data that splits out causes of wildfires finely enough to compare what kinds of stoves may have caused them. The best I can find are references to "campfires", the descriptions of which universally imply wood-burning fires. Admittedly, several agencies that institute fire bans will say something like "propane stoves only." (Presumably they don't mean to ban isobutane stoves- they are just ignorant.) But there are a LOT of places in the southwest for instance that ban smoking, or only allow it inside of an automobile.

Northern European forests are pretty damp. Forests in the Mediterranean areas, though, such as Provence, actually reminded me a lot of Colorado west of the Continental Divide. No sagebrush, but lots of scrub oak, evergreens and other flammable brush such as broom. Those areas are normally tinder-dry by mid to late summer, and wildfires are common.

Colorado's conditions are unusual right now due to extremely low winter snowpack and a very dry late winter and spring. They have really severe drought conditions! If current conditions persist, I wouldn't be surprised if they ban all stoves pretty soon.

Here in the Pacific NW, we always expect a ban on campfires by late July or early August, especially on the east slopes of the Cascades. Even last year, one of the wettest on record, the Wenatchee-Okanogan National Forest instituted a ban that included even concrete fireplaces in front-country campgrounds. Any stove users need to be very careful when the forests are tinder dry. In some states, if you set a fire, even accidentally, you are liable for the costs of putting it out!

However, I never have understood why the fire ban is always lifted just before the start of the general hunting season, even if fall rains have not yet started!

" I am surprised the whole backcountry isn't up in flames."

+1 That picture looks like a forest fire in the making.

Klutzes are roaming the nations forests and trails. The roads to the trailheads,churches and shops, around every corner. Anyone could be one. Beware.

Be careful out there.

I almost set fire to Point Reyes... White gas.

A week or two ago, Al Qaeda was informing terrorists how to set fire to forests.

No doubt this week they will be telling there agents to use alcohol stoves for the conflagration.

"So, you're seriously trying to tell me that you mixed 16oz of water and 1oz of alcohol and it continued to burn?"
No, that's not what I'm trying to say - that would be complete BS. What I'm saying is that the water acted as a carrier within the small contained fire ring.

I don't want to lose context here - I'm not trying to say that forests across the globe are going to burn to the ground from alchy stoves. That definitely would be ridiculous and alarmist. What I disagree with is the contention that alchy stoves are just as safe as canister stoves.

The surface I was using could be described as hard-pan, non-porous clay surface. And I agree, I was acting responsibly to contain my mistake.

I agree - no need to be alarmist. But I disagree that alchy is as safe as a canister stove. Nothing more, nothing less.

From your's and David's diligent carrying out of the experiment (thanks!), it's clear that what I wasn't taking into consideration was more porous surfaces, so in many (most?) situations, the kind of spread I saw would be unlikely.

Ok, noted. No hurt feelings, here, Kier. Obviously I have trouble expressing myself at times.

As (I hope) I've made more clear- I'm just taking umbrage with what I was interpreting as alarmism about alky stoves. Interpret this as a concession if you wish: clearly alky stoves have safety issues that canister stoves do not, but I don't believe that they are significantly more dangerous than other stoves if used with proper precautions. "Significantly" being my operative word. I would never tell a novice to go camping using an alky stove in the Colorado back country right now.

No.

For that matter I wouldn't have recommended it to MYSELF of just three or four years ago!

But, heck, if you are stupid enough you can cause a fireball or even an explosion with a canister or white gas stove. You just have to be rather more stupid than it would take to screw up with an alky stove. :)

I hate to sound elitist but most of the people on this forum tend to be much more enthusiastic, experienced, and educated (in the loose meaning of the word) when compared to their hiking peers, as well as being possessed of a certain elan about back country etiquette and safety. (How's THAT for alliteration?) IMHO almost anyone here can operate an alky stove more safely than any novice can operate a canister stove.

Unfortunately, the world is full of amateurs...

Edited by acrosome on 05/24/2012 11:57:50 MDT.

The real problem is with the unprepared and those that do not know how to properly and safely use an opwn flame. Those that do could do so safely even when bans are in place. The rest might cause problems even when there is not.

"No hurt feelings, here, Kier. Obviously I have trouble expressing myself at times."
No worries brother. I had a feeling we were simply at the edge of the internet's ability to clearly express a position.

And I don't think it's elitist. Every website has it's audience. BPL is clearly for the more serious hiker.

OK, here I am again shilling for Cone stoves (commercial or homemade).

But... since the evidence is in of how efficient the cone stoves are (with the correct alcohol stove) I'd like to add that they are also very stable, especially when two shepherd's hook tent stakes hold the cone down on each side.

Maybe a cone stove would be the best answer to stabilizing alky stoves as well as wringing the most BTUs out of your fuel supply.