When I moved to UL gear I fully embraced the frameless pack and used my sleeping pad as the pack support. That has now come back to bite me...

I've switched to hammocks and use an underquilt rather than a pad while sleeping. Thus I no longer need a pad in my pack at all. I have a couple GG Sitlight pads and am planning on using one in my GG Murmur this weekend as the frame. I'm also loaning my SMD Swift (no hoop stay) to a friend who will also be hammocking and was wondering what ideas people have for giving the pack some "body" without having to carry an unnecessary pad.

I think I'll be ordering the Swift Hoop Stay from SMD but I won't have it here in time for our trip on Friday. Any thoughts?

I have no great ideas, I think your best best will be to just use some foam. If you trim a cheap Wal Mart pad down you should be able to do the job with about 6-7 oz worth of foam. In my opinion this weight is well worth it. I tried stiffening up my frameless pack a few times without a foam pad and it never worked well.

Go to Lowe's and buy:

1. flat 1" aluminum barstock
2. four 3/4" stainless steel pam head bolts and matcning ss flat washers and ss Nylock nuts

3. At home measure & cut the aluminum to make an upside down "U" frame.
4. file the corners of the bar ends yntil they are well rounded.
5. drill the aluminum vertical stays at the ends, taping the upper cross stay to hole it while drilling it
6. Place the frame inside your pack, mark the bolt hole locations and remove frame
7. CAREFULLY melt the bolt holes using a hot spike held with Vise Grips
8. bolt the frame into place using the washers against the fabric to spread the Nylock nut pressure.
9. bend the frame stays to suit you back contour.

Eric I'd be concerned about the frame wearing on the pack fabric over time, especially in the Murmer which is pretty light. Has that been a problem for you?

David C. laminated a peice of alumanium between two peices of foam for a removeable frame. I'd lean towards that as a safer route at least for the Murmer.

If you're not carrying more than 20 pounds I think foam will be less of a fuss and do just about as well.

Thanks for the quick replies...

Eric - I think my long-term solution for the Swift will be to simply buy the hoop stay they offer for the pack. It's more or less your idea without the MYOG component.

For this weekend I think I'm going to put my Z-Rest into the Swift for my friend to use. Yes - he'll be carrying an extra 12 ounces but it's his first trip out and I'm not sure he'll notice the difference between 18 and 19 pounds as his max load.

I'm thinking this may give me the excuse to buy that ZPacks Exo pack that I've been eyeing...

Have you thought of trying corrugated plastic as a framesheet.

Brandon,

I hadn't considered corrugated plastic - I'll pick some up today and give it a try. It might give me what I want for this weekend's trip without the weight of the Z-Rest.

Thanks!

You can use camp shoes with soles against your back.
You can also just suck up the $20 and 3oz. and grab a 1/8"pad from gossamer gear.

the easy solution (and one i use) is to cut a section of ccf from a walmart pad (i use 20"x24"). this serves many purposes on my trip (extra insulation if you forget your down jacket in the winter - ask me how i know this one, foot mat getting in and out of hammock, stick into footbox of topquilt so that i can use a 3/4 length underquilt, sit pad during breaks, and last but not least, the frame for my zpacks zero...

With all the primary elections right now, I see a slew of corrugated plastic signs in yards this time of year. You could also pick a campaign you don't support, and siphon off a sign or two for your purposes. Or, if you feel that's too unethical, wait until an election has passed and you'll have plenty of free options.

"You could also pick a campaign you don't support, and siphon off a sign or two for your purposes."

Isn't that like _liberating_ the sign?

How is that different from _snagging_ a sign?

--B.G.--

Around where I grew up, campaign personnel go out in the middle of the night and put up lots of signs along major roads where they don't have permission to put them. In a day or two, they get taken down and thrown away. Then a few mornings later, they're back up.

I figure there's nothing wrong with snagging a few of those, especially since they're going to be thrown out anyway. I wouldn't advocate taking them out of someone's yard. That's a bit more personal.

Kevin, I was unaware that a hoop stay was available. By all means use it since it was made just for that pack.

BTW, in the 2 packs where I have used flat 1" aluminum stays I have taped them with Gorilla "super" duct tape the entire length of the stays. So far no fabric wear and I use my loaded (30 lbs.) ski pack a lot for trainings hikes. Gorilla tape also covers the internal Nylock nuts to protect contents.

I did cut off the wimpy fabric belt and insert an REI Ridgeline padded belt behind the pack's lumbar pad. Luckily it fit like it was made for it.
Now the belt is capable of supporting the max weight I've made the pack able to carry, i.e. 45 to 50 lbs. Looking at the pack it all looks "factory", not cobbled together. Yeah, it's a RealTree brown pattern camo pack but it has all my needed bells and whistles. Function, not fashion.

i use a light piece of 1mm pine wood for up to 40+ lbs

for light loads use a thermarest sit pad or equivalent .... it does double duty

some guides will also use a sam splint as a frame, which again serves double duty ...

Yeah, cut down a pad to give just enough support. imo, z-lites give the best support. It won't be wasted weight, you can use it as a sit pad and you can stand on it when getting in and out of your hammock if the ground is wet.

Let us know what you use and how it goes. I have a frameless pack and recently outfitted myself with a hammock so no pad. I slid in corrugated plastic and like the feel but haven't been able to test it on the trail