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Hilleberg Tent thread
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Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Hilleberg Tent thread on 05/11/2012 20:24:21 MDT Print View

Hello all, after buying my first Hilleberg tent, the Tarra, I'm a huge fan of the brand. I'd like to get a thread going for people to chime in about their likes and dislikes of different Hilleberg models, incluing photos. While there are a decent number of reviews of these tents on youtube, etc., I've noticed that many are pretty lacking at showing the interiors of the tents. I think this is a shame, since inside the tent is where you spend most of your tent-related time.

I'd particularly love to hear comparisons of the Jannu and Nammatj 2, as one of these will likely be my next backpacking tent (solo plus pooch). Nobody has interior photos of either of these tents (at least that I can find).

I'll start off with the Tarra:

The Tarra is a hybrid tunnel/ dome, self-supporting 2 person, all season tent. The reason Hilleberg calls it a hybrid tunnel/ dome is because the walls are much more vertical than in a traditional dome tent, offering increased usable space inside.

The tent uses the heavier Kerlon 1800 fabric, and four 10mm poles. It has two entrances and vestibules, which are an exact mirror of each other. With dual entrances, an overhead roof vent, and full bug netting doors on the inner tent, you can get excellent ventilation, both horizontal and vertical.

Cons- The Tarra is a heavy tent at 9 lbs. It also has a very large pack size for a two person tent. These are not surprises when you buy the tent, however, they are well worth considering depending on what uses you have planned for it. Like all Hillebergs, it is also expensive, at roughly $900. The weight, cost, and pack size are really the only three negatives as far as I can tell. How much those weigh (pun intended) will be different for each individual and use.

Pros- The Tarra is a bomb shelter. From the fabric material to the poles, to the set-up, you get the overpowering feeling of being able to survive a nuclear winter. Setup is simple. It is one of the fastest tents I've ever set up, and easiest with one person. A tent this easy to set up a second person would almost be more in the way, than helpful. It is also a warm tent. I camped in it in 19* F weather, on deep snow, and the temperature inside the tent felt MUCH warmer than the outside temps. It is large 2 person tent. The large pack size and heavy weight pay off in this regard. Before I bought the Tarra, I saw it set up next to the larger 3-person Saivo. The vestibules in the Tarra felt larger, and the interior felt only slightly less roomy, thanks to the Tarra's excellent vertical walls and more vertical vestibule angles. The Tarra is the first 2 person tent I've been in that felt like it was really made for two people, plus gear. In fact, it feels like 3 would not be bad in an emergency situation.

For backpacking the Tarra would not be a bad choice if used truly for two people. At 4.5 lbs each (and the weight can be divided nicely due to the removable inner tent, poles, etc), the strength, comfort, and space of the tent would make it my tent of choice for 2 person backpacking in demanding conditions. As a 1 person tent, 9 lbs and the huge pack size make it a pretty poor choice (ask me how I know:). For solo motorcycle touring/ camping, where weight and pack size are less relevant, the Tarra is a palace.

Here are some photos of my Tarra. My backpacking partner, for reference, is a 60 lb Belgian Malinois:

Photo & Video Sharing by SmugMug

Photo & Video Sharing by SmugMug

So now that I've got the ball rolling, I'd love to hear from other Hilleberg owners (and please put up pictures, inside and out).

PS- No flash was used on the second photo. The interiors really are cheery with the bright yellow color.

Edited by Jedi5150 on 05/11/2012 20:35:12 MDT.

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Hilleberg Tent thread on 05/12/2012 09:00:06 MDT Print View

Hello Doug. I too have just joined the ranks of Hilleberg carriers. I bought an Unna for myself and my sometime canine companion.
Heavy compared to what a lot carry here sure. I slept like a rock in 60mph gusts in mine, so I'm sold on the extra weight at times.

Had a Duomid for a couple of years. Great shelter, but not quite long enough for me at 6'3".

I knew I wanted something that would last me for quite a while. Needed to be long. Side entry for those long legs and views.

Funny I do not miss not having a vestibule. Got use to having everything in with me in the mid. Bears abound here so cooking in the tent is not a good idea anyway.

The Unna without the inner is absolutely huge. Easily get two in there with their gear. Has more usable width 2 feet off the ground than the Duomid did too, so a nice roomy interior.

I have some lighter weight poles from a dome tent I owned decades ago that I am going to make a set for the Unna to save some weight for not so terrible weather trips.

A well thought out feature set for my use. Freestanding is a nice convenience as well. Can shake the tent out in the morning.

016
Happy in my new home away from home.

011
Comparing the Duo and Unna pitched

031
The two packed. The Unna when packed outer only is of comparable size to the mid.

020
Massive cavern!

024
Plenty of room between the inner and outer to place your shoes. And they stay dry. The toggles are very easy and fast to use.

022
The outer goes tight against the ground if needed. Blocking all wind. The night with high winds I noticed no discernible air movement in the tent. Blissfully calm.

025
Tons of air space between the inner and outer.

039
Totally out in the open in 40mph+ winds.

Hoping to get much more use out it in the future. My first tent in over 10 years. Been using a hammock or tarp and bivy.
Both are great options for times when you don't need a tent. I wanted a private space that was out of the wind. Easy and I mean it is really easy and fast to put up. That's always good. I just want in when I get to camp some nights.
Expensive, initially sure. Over the life of a properly cared for shelter, not so much. It was really hard to pul the trigger on spending so much on something just for me. A purchase that has begun to prove that it was a wise choice for me.

Oh yeah. I love the modularity of the design as well. I look forward to getting the mesh inner later. Good color too.

Here are some more pictures

063
Nice steep walls

064
That cheery yellow inner

065
Nice huge entrance

066
Looks roomy, but how roomy is it?

068
Here it is with a large Neoair and my Ohm

071
Without the inner I could easily fit two 25" wide pads in there.

067
The vent at ground level in the rear is easy to operate. Can be deployed from inside when using outer only.

I have added this post to the reader reviews.

Edited by kthompson on 05/12/2012 14:16:39 MDT.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
nm on 05/12/2012 11:14:51 MDT Print View

Nm

Edited by stephenm on 03/05/2015 08:05:32 MST.

Mary D
(hikinggranny) - MLife

Locale: Gateway to Columbia River Gorge
Hilleberg Tent thread on 05/12/2012 12:27:07 MDT Print View

I'd like to see more about the new Anjan (3-season version of the Nallo) when someone gets one and has a chance to use it in nasty alpine conditions.

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Re: Hilleberg Tent thread on 05/12/2012 13:25:07 MDT Print View

Ken, outstanding review of the Unna! That is exactly what I was hoping for. When I look for backpacking tents for myself and the dog, I look at the 2 person tents. This is mainly because whatever tent I buy has to do double duty of also sharing half of our 4 person family (not including dogs), so I've got to buy on the big side. If I was in the market for a tent for strictly me and my dog, the Unna would have been my choice hands down. It is wide enough to fit the pooch and myself, without the extra bulk of a two person tent. And I'm in agreement with you on vestibules. I really don't use them much and would prefer to have the room inside the inner tent.

Stephen, I'd love to read your Soulo review. It seems to be a popular model, so I'm sure others would appreciate it as well.

Mary, that's the thing about Hilleberg reviews. Some models get a lot of reviews and you can find almost anything you want to know about them on the internet. Other versions (like the Nammatj and Saivo for me), it's almost like nobody has ever bought them, there are so few reviews. I hope someone can put up an Anjan review for you.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
nm on 05/12/2012 14:20:11 MDT Print View

nm

Edited by stephenm on 03/05/2015 08:26:21 MST.

Mary D
(hikinggranny) - MLife

Locale: Gateway to Columbia River Gorge
Anjan on 05/12/2012 16:19:36 MDT Print View

Doug, the Anjan is brand new, just released this month, and is sold out, so I don't expect to see any reviews of it for a while. Unless, of course, one of our BPL forum folks was able to get one of that first batch!

Edited by hikinggranny on 05/12/2012 16:21:48 MDT.

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Re: Anjan on 05/12/2012 17:51:05 MDT Print View

Ah, I didn't realize it was so new. I've seen it in the catalogue since the beginning of the year, so I assumed it had been out a while. It must be well worth looking at if it's already sold out. :)

Charles Jennings
(Packgoat)
Hilleberg Anjan photos on 05/12/2012 22:27:35 MDT Print View

http://www.trailspace.com/forums/gear-selection/topics/124226.html

I posted a bunch of photos of the Anjan over at Trailspace.com, once I received a couple of them in for inventory. (I sold both in just a few days).

I plan on getting an Anjan for Summer use above treeline in the Winds.

(DISCLOSURE - I am an authorized Hilleberg Retailer.)

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Re: Hilleberg Anjan photos on 05/12/2012 22:46:14 MDT Print View

"(DISCLOSURE - I am an authorized Hilleberg Retailer.)"

Charles, are you based out of Utah by chance? :)

Edited by Jedi5150 on 05/12/2012 22:47:12 MDT.

Charles Jennings
(Packgoat)
Hilleberg on 05/12/2012 23:44:08 MDT Print View

Yep, up near Logan.

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Logan on 05/13/2012 00:36:03 MDT Print View

I had a feeling you might be the same Hilleberg distributor I've been chatting with on 24hourcampfire. :)

Peter s
(Darkness) - F
Kaitum 2 in Sarek National Park on 05/13/2012 11:47:19 MDT Print View

Some pictures from our trip to Sarek national park in Sweden where we had 2 Hilleberg Kaitum 2 tents

Twin Hilleberg Kaitum 2

Sarek National Park, Sweden

Sarek National Park, Sweden

Sarek National Park, Sweden

Mike Allen
(michaellea62) - F

Locale: UTAH
Hilleberg atko question on 05/13/2012 13:10:04 MDT Print View

Charles, I have the atko and was wondering if the new mesh inner for the atko would save me any weight compared to the inner tent that comes with the original tent?
Thanks for your help
Mike

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Re: Hilleberg atko question on 05/13/2012 13:32:04 MDT Print View

Mike, Charles can let you know for sure, but on another forum I read that the mesh inner tents are almost identical in weight to their stock counterparts. The mesh inner for the Atko is 1 lb, 5 oz, and the standard inner is probably within an ounce or two of that.

Mike Allen
(michaellea62) - F

Locale: UTAH
Hilleberg atko question on 05/13/2012 14:03:53 MDT Print View

Thanks Doug. I was hoping that it would shave a little weight off my atko, because I really love that tent but it's not exactly a light weight solo shelter. I've got my eye on the notch and light heart solo and solong 6, but waiting for some more reviews on the tents...

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Re: Hilleberg atko question on 05/13/2012 14:27:09 MDT Print View

I dunno Mike, the Atko is 3.5 lbs packed weight, and is a 4 season tent. To me that meets the "very" light category. It's all relative. 3 lbs may seem heavy if you're comparing it to a tarp and groundcloth, with trekking poles for support, but that would be an unfair comparison. A tent will provide creature (literally) and cold weather comforts that a light shelter never could.

I joined this site to find ways to lighten my load, and make my backpacking more comfortable. But in the end, it's not always about hiking the entire PCT with nothing but boxer shorts and a Nalgene bottle. They could have titled the website "Ultralight Backpacking", but they didn't. IMHO a 3.5 lb 4 season tent is light. ;-) Just my .02 cents.

BER ---
(BER) - MLife

Locale: Wisconsin
Hilleberg tent thread on 05/13/2012 15:48:23 MDT Print View

I recently bought a Kaitum 2p and had it out for its first overnight this weekend with my wife and 60# pup. Coming from a BA Copper Spur UL3, I found the Kaitum 2 a bit narrower than my ideal. We tend to like to spread our stuff. I did like the ease of setup, found the air movement to be good with the end vents open, and liked exiting at my wife's feet rather than her head (it seems too many two person tents with end-entry slope down away from the entry and are designed for head at the door positioning--the Kaitum does not). I will likely buy a Kaitum 3p to compare and either send back the 3p if too large, or sell the 2p. Wish it was lighter of course....

Www.moontrail.com has pretty good pics of many of the Hillebergs. Inside and out for some.

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Re: Hilleberg atko question on 05/13/2012 16:07:47 MDT Print View

The Akto is a really nice poor weather tent but lacks headroom, is condensation prone because it lacks ventilation, and cannot take any meaningful snow load as the ends will collapse. It is really a 3+ season shelter for most of us.

I thought it was well made but much too heavy for a 3+ shelter and sold it a couple of years back.

Franco Darioli
(Franco) - M

Locale: Here
Hilleberg Tent thread on 05/13/2012 17:21:52 MDT Print View

The Akto mesh inner is listed at 550g.
BPL measured the fabric inner at 473g.

Doug
But in the end, it's not always about hiking the entire PCT with nothing but boxer shorts and a Nalgene bottle
A Nalgene 1 L bottle is 180g.
A standard 1.25L soda water bottle is 45 g (Aquafina bottles are lighter)
What were you thinking ?
Franco

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Hilleberg Tent thread on 05/13/2012 17:27:20 MDT Print View

Hey - the classic 1L Nalgene is 95g!

Rakesh Malik
(Tamerlin)

Locale: Cascadia
Re: Hilleberg Tent thread on 05/13/2012 19:27:54 MDT Print View

"A Nalgene 1 L bottle is 180g. "

Not if you fill it with helium instead of water ;)

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Re: Hilleberg Tent thread on 05/13/2012 19:57:44 MDT Print View

"A Nalgene 1 L bottle is 180g.
A standard 1.25L soda water bottle is 45 g (Aquafina bottles are lighter)
What were you thinking ?
Franco"

Hahahaha. Touche Franco.

PS- In a few weeks I might be able to do a write-up on another Hilleberg tent. But I'm not telling which one or you guys will be lined up to buy it before me and it'll be out of stock. :P

Edited by Jedi5150 on 05/13/2012 20:03:59 MDT.

Charles Jennings
(Packgoat)
Akto inner mesh weight on 05/13/2012 20:05:03 MDT Print View

The 2012 catalog says that the inner mesh weight is 600g for the Akto, or 1lb. 5 oz. Glad Franco knew where to find the weight of the inner fabric.

I have a bunch of 2012 catalogs (or handbooks as Hilleberg calls them) free of charge if anyone wants one.

Edited by Packgoat on 05/13/2012 20:11:29 MDT.

D G
(DanG)

Locale: Pacific Northwet
Re: Hilleberg atko question on 05/13/2012 20:17:49 MDT Print View

Hi Mike,

The akto can be lightened significantly with some simple mods.

My pimped out akto weighs 2 lbs 10 oz. which is pretty light. My tent weight as stock was
3 lbs 5 oz.

Miles Spathelf
(MilesS) - MLife
Re: Re: Hilleberg atko question on 05/13/2012 20:26:54 MDT Print View

Mind sharing some of the alterations you made to the Akto? Cheers

Mike Allen
(michaellea62) - F

Locale: UTAH
atko modifications on 05/13/2012 21:22:17 MDT Print View

Daniel, do you have your modifications posted our do you mind sharing them.
Thanks

D G
(DanG)

Locale: Pacific Northwet
Re: atko modifications on 05/13/2012 22:57:31 MDT Print View

It's been a while since I did them so I'll try to remember. Don't think I have them posted. It basically consists of lots of small mods that each can save from 1-2 oz.

1. Akto has LOTS of metal zipper pulls. I cut them and replaced with small cord loops (lots of stock tents/items with zippers come this way stock anyways). This is actually an improvement as you don't get noise from the metal pulls in wind and they are easier to operate, especially with gloves.

2. Replaced all the heavy akto guylines and tensioners with a BPL guyline kit. It's an exact replacement except using thinner/lighter (and I believe stronger) cord and slightly smaller/lighter tensioners. No longer available from BPL but I think you can still get from other sources. Much better, as the akto guylines absorb lots of water when wet.

3. Replaced heavy stakes with titanium skewers.

4. Replaced the 4 metal rings at the 4 corners of the tent with cord loops.

5. Replaced stock stuffsack with cuben stuffsack.

6. Optional, but you can omit the pole stuffsack, just use a rubber band.

7. I ordered an Akto carbon fiber pole set from fibraplex (they have it pre-made, it's not custom) that includes the main arched pole plus the 4 corner poles. Most people don't know unless they look closely but the 4 corner struts are removable. They are fiberglass and quite heavy. I have to admit though that I have been reluctant to use the carbon fiber arched pole for fear of breakage. The 4 corner poles though are definately stronger (and lighter) than the stock Akto poles.

8. I think that's pretty much all I did. What's nice is the mods do not remove any functionality to the tent, ie it does not involve removing any items/features etc. If you use the stock pole you can save a little weight by not carrying the repair section.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Akto mods on 05/13/2012 22:58:45 MDT Print View

I bought a modified Akto a while back. It wasn't in the condition advertised so I returned it, but I did check out the modifications. The four main changes were: carbon fibre pole from fibraplex; thinner (1.8mm or 2mm) guylines and corresponding smaller diameter guyline runners; cord in place of the metal zipper tabs; lighter pegs (6 out of 10 - 4 were originals, for the end guylines). The seller told me the total weight saving was 9oz, and his total outlay for the mods was under $100.

D G
(DanG)

Locale: Pacific Northwet
Re: Akto mods on 05/13/2012 23:14:16 MDT Print View

That sounds about right. In retrospect I would not recommend the fibraplex arched pole. It saves 3 ounces. I would however recommend the 4 fibraplex corner poles, which I think saved about 1.5-2 oz.

ed hyatt
(edhyatt) - MLife

Locale: The North
Hilleberg Tent thread on 05/14/2012 00:03:21 MDT Print View

Long-time Hilleberg user here - initially and for about 14 years a Staika for bike-touring. Bomb-proof palace that stood up to the tail-end of a Japanaese typhoon that squashed many tents on our site.

More recently the Unna - used for the last 6 years or so when the weather looks a little grim; has stood up to 70mph winds and I slept soundly. A little heavy but I play with the idea of a MYOG half inner from time-to-time (doubt I'll ever get around to it though!).

Ivo Vanmontfort
(Ivo) - MLife
tarping with an akto on 05/14/2012 06:16:33 MDT Print View

Only for the idea
When the weather is good
You can also make a tarp
from a akto fly

Van akto in aktie


Van akto in aktie

Edited by Ivo on 05/14/2012 06:17:39 MDT.

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Nammatj 2 on 05/18/2012 18:29:19 MDT Print View

Well, I just got my Nammatj 2. I haven't yet had a chance to use it camping, but I can at least give first impressions and some photos.

At $610, the Nammatj 2 is the least expensive tent in Hilleberg's "greatest strength" lineup (ie: heavier Kerlon 1800 fabric and 10mm poles). And at 6lbs, 6 oz, the Nammatj 2 is the lightest tent in this category.

The Nammatj 2 uses two 10mm poles of the same length, making the poles very user friendly. Only two to carry, and no having to guess as to length when you pull them out of the bag. When properly staked and guyed out, it is tight as a drum. Like all tunnel tents, the Nammatj 2 is completely dependent on staking for it's form. This is what keeps the weight down, while still allowing it to be roomy and use beefy materials. It is a trade off. Also adding to the light weight is the fact that the Nammatj 2 only has one vestibule and entrance. In spite of this, it still has excellent ventilation with large vents on both sides of the inner and outter tents.

This is my first tent that is not at least self-supporting, if not fully free standing. I'm guessing that to be confident of a good pitch on varied terrain, I'll have to take more than one type of stake. The Nammatj comes with a large amount of quality aluminum stakes that are a good compromise of strength, penetration ability, etc. But I also added a set of titanium nail style pegs and a set of snow/ sand stakes.

The snow stakes came in handy when I pitched the tent close to home today (in the following pictures). The ground where I live, on the central coast of CA, is very sandy. In fact they basically build the towns on sand dunes. I set up both the Nammatj 2 and the Tarra, and used a combination of snow/ sand stakes and the pegs that come standard.

The color of my new Nammatj 2 is "sand". After seeing some pictures of tents in this color online, I was initially worried it would be too transparent. In person my worries proved to be unfounded. I find it to be a very nice color, both inside and out of the tent. It definitely feels "roomier" in the vestibule with this color than in the green. As Hilleberg fans know, they have traditionally only offered their tents in green and red. The Sand color is available in specific models, however. As of last week, the US division of Hilleberg had sand colored tents in stock in the following models: Nammatj 2, Saitaris, Keron 3GT and 4GT, and Staika.

Anyways, on to the pictures. I believe you can enlarge the pictures by clicking on them. Both tents (I brought the Tarra for comparison) fit just fine in my McHale 40 LBP backpack:
Photo & Video Sharing by SmugMug

Photo & Video Sharing by SmugMug

The Nammatj 2 set up:
Photo & Video Sharing by SmugMug

Photo & Video Sharing by SmugMug

With all vents open. Note that all vents, on both the inner tent and outter tent, have the option of a mesh bug net only, fabric only, or both:
Photo & Video Sharing by SmugMug

The Tarra and Nammatj 2 together. The Tarra looks smaller in the picture due to the distance from the camera. This is misleading, as the Tarra is a slightly larger tent.
Photo & Video Sharing by SmugMug

The Tarra all opened up. The Tarra has excellent ventilation, with full doors and vestibules on both ends, as well as a roof vent:
Photo & Video Sharing by SmugMug

Showing the size of the interior of the Nammatj 2. For refference, I am 5'10" tall. I found the Tarra to have slightly more interior room, but again it is a heavier tent. Contrary to what I'd read online, at my height I would be able to sleep with my feet at either the opening or the "foot" of the Nammatj 2 without worry of my head or feet brushing the inner tent walls. Anyone a couple inches taller than me or more would not have this option, and would need to sleep with their head near the door.
Photo & Video Sharing by SmugMug

And the Tarra interior, for size comparison:
Photo & Video Sharing by SmugMug

In summary, I'm very happy with my new Nammatj 2. I love the color, weight, pack size, and design. I have a family of four, plus two dogs, who go camping. With these 2 two person tents, all of us will be able to camp in comfort. Both tents are easily big enough for two adults and a dog. If asked which tent I liked better, it would be a tough question. They will both be better in different areas. for backpacking, I see the Nammatj having a distinct advantage. For motorcycle touring I immagine the Tarra will be my first pick.

Edited to correct the stats on the Soulo. Thanks to Stuart for pointing them out.

Edited by Jedi5150 on 05/18/2012 21:12:03 MDT.

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Nammatj 2 on 05/18/2012 19:51:11 MDT Print View

Nice job on the photos Doug. Always helpful. The sand color looks great.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Re: Nammatj 2 on 05/18/2012 19:56:22 MDT Print View

Very nice write-up of the Nammatj and comparison with the Tarra, two models that don't get as much press as others in Hilleberg's line-up. Sand is an interesting colour choice, and I'm sure it won't appeal to every Hilleberg buyer, but I'm glad you like it.

One point of correction - the Soulo is not part of the Kerlon 1800 line. It, like all of the single person Hillebergs, uses the lighter Kerlon 1200. However, given its three pole setup, it is considered the strongest of the solo tents.

Where the Nammatj beats the Nallo is in the dual vents - which as you stated have no-see-um mesh as well as waterproof breathable fabric - and the equal sized poles which give more usable height and width throughout.

I currently own a Soulo, a Staika, and a Kaitum 3. Of the three, the Soulo has seen most use, followed by the Kaitum. I am on the fence about the Staika, and having seen an Allak this week I wonder whether I should have gone with the lighter variant.

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Re: Re: Nammatj 2 on 05/18/2012 21:05:45 MDT Print View

Thanks for the kind words Ken and Stuart. I'll update the review once I've had a chance to do some camping/ backpacking with it. I'll be taking the Nammatj on my July trip to 1000 Islands Lake. I'm hoping to get some backpacking in before then as a shakedown cruise.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Re: Nammatj on 05/18/2012 21:41:58 MDT Print View

I gave the Nammatj serious consideration before buying the Kaitum. In the standard configuration, its smaller footprint makes for easier site selection, and in the GT vestibule variant you have a bug-free covered area adjacent to, but separate from where you sleep. Ultimately, however, the additional weight of the Nammatj GT was more than I wanted to carry, and I preferred the two vestibule setup of the Kaitum which, much like the Tarra, has outstanding ventilation for year-round use.

I think you're smart in going for one tunnel and one dome, that way you have equipment that can handle all eventualities. That's why I bought the Staika after getting the Kaitum. But I do find that the 1.5lb weight difference between the two means I'm more likely to go with the Kaitum unless I expect to find conditions not conducive to its 14' length and/or its non-freestanding design. I can see exactly why the Staika would be a hit for motorbike touring, backcountry skiing with a pulk, or kayak /canoe touring. It's a terrific design, lots of interior space for two, massive dual vestibules making for excellent cross-ventilation, sheltered cooking, and giving each occupant their own entrance. I'd rather not schlepp 8lb 8oz of shelter in my backpack up hill and down valley. The Allak is more than 1.5lbs lighter than the Staika, but it has a different vestibule layout that may not be as protected from the elements, plus it's narrower overall.

I'd be curious how much the external colour impacts the internal temperature - and specifically whether sand reflects more heat than the darker green and red. I felt that the red Nallo GT that I owned briefly was warmer in sunshine than my green Kaitum, but my visual senses may have come into play, or the differences in vent configuration.


Edited to clarify comments about the Staika.

Edited by lotuseater on 05/18/2012 21:57:47 MDT.

J C
(Joomy) - M
Re: Hilleberg Tent thread on 05/19/2012 00:09:20 MDT Print View

Awesome review, Ken! I wasn't aware that Hilleberg did a simple dome tent until I read your post. Have to say, I love the look of the Unna. I love that large side opening door on the fly, it's reminiscent of the Ahwahnee. If only they did a 2-person, 2-door version (like the Ahwahnee I guess, but with an inner.

One question, Ken, how much have you used the Unna fly-only? How was condensation? Seems like it could work pretty well as a single-skin since it looks like it has quite good ventilation options.

Edit: By the way, do you happen to know the weight of the fly + poles only?

Edited by Joomy on 05/19/2012 00:25:10 MDT.

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Unna component weights on 05/19/2012 09:21:41 MDT Print View

Here is what I have Jeremy. Upcoming trip to the Lost Coast will be my first fly only trip. Will report after.

Fly 824g
Vent cover 64g
Inner 642g
12 stakes in sack 154g
Poles only 420g
2 poles,repair sleeve,extra pole section in stuffsack 502g
I missed weighing the footprint alone somehow
Anyway the minimum set up fly,poles,floor,stakes in sack and stuffsack weighs 63.5oz or 1800g
Bare minimum 1308g for fly, vent cover and poles. or 46 oz. It is a huge amount of space.
Some of the weights were supplied by Hilleberg. I have found their weights to be accurate.

The poles are heavy. But no real fluff in the design. Everything is there that is needed, nothing that is not.

The new Rogan is a two door, two vestibule version. 3 season only though.

I really like how easy it is to pitch. Could do it blindfolded. No color coded poles or sleeves.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
nm on 05/19/2012 16:13:07 MDT Print View

nm

Edited by stephenm on 03/05/2015 08:27:24 MST.

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Unna wind worthiness on 05/19/2012 17:51:56 MDT Print View

Stephen. In my photos posted above the wind was coming at the side of the tent at over 40mph. Only a slight amount of deflection. Pretty solid.

Good tents.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
nm on 05/19/2012 18:59:24 MDT Print View

nm

Edited by stephenm on 03/05/2015 08:55:33 MST.

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Unna wind worthiness on 05/19/2012 19:04:35 MDT Print View

I don't make much noise sewing either;)

Hoping we get to wear out our tents out from use.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Unna wind worthiness on 05/20/2012 14:09:34 MDT Print View

Was out of it on pain meds with my orthodontics last night Ken and the spell and grammer check on my phone is rubbish.

Yep, definitely hope we get to wear out our tents from use, I have 3 cool trips planned for the next 2 months :-)

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Hilleberg Tent thread on 05/20/2012 15:51:45 MDT Print View

I would love to see Hilleberg offer a larger version of the Atko. As long as the Unna and maybe 3 inches taller. If they went with a lighter strut material there would be almost/no weight gain. In that sand color could be great

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Hilleberg Tent thread on 05/29/2012 23:06:00 MDT Print View

Well with the weather forecast before the Lost Coast trip I packed the inner. Proved a good choice as it was pretty wet overnight both nights. Fly only some other time.

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Hilleberg Saitaris on 02/09/2013 18:48:30 MST Print View

I thought I'd update this thread with pictures of my new Saitaris. At 14lbs, it is probably pushing the ultra-light limit. (Hahahaha). But it will be our family backpacking tent, for 4 people and two medium/ large dogs. Between the four of us, the weight will not be horrible, not to mention there is nowhere on planet Earth we couldn't camp with this tent. :)

On to the pictures:

Photo & Video Sharing by SmugMug

Photo & Video Sharing by SmugMug

Photo & Video Sharing by SmugMug

Edited by Jedi5150 on 02/09/2013 18:49:33 MST.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Hilleberg Saitaris on 02/09/2013 19:32:10 MST Print View

That's one bad ass looking tent Doug, I purchased a used Kiatum 3 last autumn and used it for the first time last Saturday with 2 buddies, it really is a cracking tent and the weight split between 3 is not a big deal at all.

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Kaitum on 02/09/2013 20:05:00 MST Print View

Thanks Stephen! And do you happen to have any pictures from your trip? I'd love to see an interior shot of a 3 person set up for 3 men. I know the Hillebergs don't skimp on size, but I'm wondering how roomy it is when you use them to their suggested rating.

My family consists of my wife and I, and two daughters, 12 and 14. None of us are large, so I'm sure the 4 of us will fit in the Saitaris just fine.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Kaitum on 02/09/2013 20:21:27 MST Print View

Hi Doug,

I didn't get any pics as it was -13f and it was too cold to take off my gloves.

The inner was fine for 3 for 1 night but for anything longer it would be a place for 2.

Cheers,

Stephen

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Almost makes me want to camp in snow on 02/09/2013 21:31:04 MST Print View

Wow Doug that shelter looks sooo cozy!! Makes me want one...

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Kaitum 3 on 02/09/2013 22:08:47 MST Print View

Thanks for sharing your photos of the Saitaris. That's a veritable home away from home. Although at 14lb, I wouldn't be taking it without a pulk. At half the weight I have the Kaitum 3. I looked but I don't have any interior shots of it, but here it is in action in late September just below the continental divide in Fox Park, Indian Peaks Wilderness, CO. Altitude was about 11,000ft, and the overnight temps got down to the high teens. Nowhere near the snow you encountered, as you'll see, but worthy of 4 season use.

The Kaitum is the widest of the 3P Hilleberg tents. Three 20" pads fit side-by-side, with perhaps an inch or two in between. The double vestibules and the vertical doors on both ends meant there was no feeling of claustrophobia. As Stephen says, this is fine for three adult males for a short trip in winter, or two adults and a child plus 1-2 dogs in a vestibule for a longer trip.

K3-1

K3-2

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Re: Kaitum 3 on 02/09/2013 23:05:55 MST Print View

Jennifer, it was cozy :) In fact my pup, Vixen, did not want to leave it when it came time to take it down. lol

Stuart, thanks for the pictures of the Kaitum, the more the merrier. I can never get tired of looking at Hilleberg tent photos. Thanks for both you and Stephen for the size description. I thought I'd studied the Hilleberg tents pretty well but I had no idea the width of the Kaitum 3 was that much greater...11" wider than their other 3 person tents! And I agree with you, a pulk would have been very nice. I didn't go far from the car on this trip, only a few hundred yards across a meadow, but even that distance with all my gear and the tent I was feeling it (plus the elevation got to me). A pulk would have been really nice to have.

I've sort of decided that for winter camping, since the gear is so much bulkier and heavier, if I'm not going to be close to a vehicle I want a pulk instead of a backpack.

Edited by Jedi5150 on 02/09/2013 23:14:25 MST.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
A little schooling please... on 02/10/2013 07:13:41 MST Print View

Not that I ever actually need a reason to buy gorgeous backpacking gear, but...

Wow these tents just look amazing. They are, however, quite bomber and heavy. So outside of winter use, why would one use such a tent? Bigger groups? Strong winds? I'm just not sure how I could justify owning one of these beauties unless I did a lot of winter outings...

(She says as she checks her pay pal balance...)

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: A little schooling please... on 02/10/2013 07:48:50 MST Print View

Jennifer,

I have two Hilleberg Tents, the Kaitum 3 above and the 1 person Soulo.

The Kaitum is primarily for use for winter and bad weather both for US and back in Europe, its light enough it can be carried between 2 but between 3 its an easy carry.

I will pack the in the US Soulo anytime the forecasted wind speeds are over 35-40mph or if snow is forecasted, also when heading to Europe I will pack it each time if going on solo trips as I am often gone for 4 weeks.

A lot of folk on here would not dream of carrying a Hilleberg (but a lot do), it really comes down to personal preference, all the rest of my kit is UL for its intended use and my 3 season Tent is a Tarp Tent Startosphie 1 (which is a fine shelter)

Hi Doug,

Check out Moontrail for decent photos of the Kaitum 3.

http://www.moontrail.com/hilleberg-kaitum3.php

Cheers,

Stephen

Richard Lyon
(richardglyon) - MLife

Locale: Bridger Mountains
Hilleberg tents on 02/10/2013 07:48:55 MST Print View

Jennifer,

Now that Hilleberg offers mesh inners for some models (as an extra, still more dollars), its tents are great year-round. They are heavy by BPL standards but the durability and size justify the weight in my opinion. I use my Unna all the time. A lifetime investment.

Richard

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: A little schooling please... on 02/10/2013 08:13:22 MST Print View

That tent is nicer than my house.

Edited by FamilyGuy on 02/10/2013 08:14:09 MST.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: A little schooling please... on 02/10/2013 08:19:25 MST Print View

That tent certainly is far sturdier and well built than my house.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Mine as well on 02/10/2013 08:25:07 MST Print View

It is nicer than my condo. And yes, probably bigger, too.

I've seen them, drooled over them, but just couldn't justify one. I'd like to get into more winter trips, and once I move out west perhaps I can find it in my pocketbook to invest in one of these bad boys as I would have more of a use for something like this. I want very badly to have a good use for one ;)

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Mine as well on 02/10/2013 08:33:05 MST Print View

I was lucky enough to get the Soulo discounted from Hilleberg and bought Kaitum off a Bpl member :-)

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Mine as well on 02/10/2013 08:34:21 MST Print View

I had an Akto for a coupe of years, and more recently a Nammatj. The performance is of the highest level, assuming one can deal with the weight. Having said that, this is an instance of getting something for the increased weight, all of which improves the all weather performance of the tent.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Mine as well on 02/10/2013 09:37:54 MST Print View

Dave,

I had a good poke around a Nammatj in a shop last yar and was very impressed with it, do you use it solo?

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Re: A little schooling please... on 02/10/2013 11:28:48 MST Print View

Jennifer, it is very dangerous to ask a group of Hilleberg fans to extol the virtues of their tents. You may have just opened Pandora's Box. ;-)

Since I'm about to sound like a Hilleberg add, I need to disclose that I have never gotten a penny from the company, or compensated in any way...and with the amount of advertising I've done for them they owe me at least a Nammatj 3GT or an Unna...(are you reading this Petra?) hahahahaha.

OK, so down to your question; A Hilleberg might not be for everyone. They are simply too heavy for many people to even consider. When I go on solo summer backpacking trips I've been using my BA Copper Spur. It is a great tent for that purpose, and the lightest I'm willing to go. I'm the kind of hiker who likes to have a real tent when I get to where I'm going, and I don't care for trekking poles at all. That said, if I'd looked into the Unna or the Akto before I bought the Copper Spur, I likely would have gone the Hilleberg route for even solo camping.

Now on to their bigger tents; Ventilation is excellent. I can see why in some of their smaller tents with one door, a mesh inner tent would be nice in hot weather. But in my opinion any of their tents with 2 doors (Staika, Tarra, Saivo, Kaitum, Keron, Saitaris to name some) have excellent ventilation to the point of the standard yellow inner being fine year round. The Saivo in specific with it's vents at either end and two huge roof vents is a venting machine.

I use my Hillebergs year round, even for good weather, summer camping. The same thing that makes them excellent for going to the north or south pole, makes them great for me as well...longevity and ergonomics. These tents last forever (almost). There is a couple named Simon and Lisa Thomas who have ridden their motorcycles around the world for the past 10 years, from both the most northerly and southerly roads capable of being motorcycled in the world. They have used two Keron 4GT's for the past 10 years (replaced their first one after 5 years). In my opinion, 5 years of living out of the same tent from the hottest deserts of the world to the coldest arctic areas and having it last that long is a testiment to durability. When you get a Hilleberg catalogue they include swatches of tent material...standard ripstop nylon, and their Kerlon 1200 and 1800 fabrics. The swatches have a tear started in them already, and the idea is to rip the material apart to see the strength. The Hilleberg fabrics are pretty much impossible to rip by hand, especially the 1800.

For ergonomics the ease of set-up by one person, in foul weather, is incredible. So is their space. When Hilleberg calls it a 2 person tent, they really mean it's a 2 person tent, plus gear.

So in closing, Hilleberg will always be my tent of choice from here on out, simply because I like having confidence in my gear. Unless weight is your absolutely highest priority (and for many it is), I can't see a reason NOT to go with a Hilleberg. Even cost will be lower in the long run, with how long they last.

Even though I'm thrilled to death with the new Saitaris, the Tarra is still the most impressive tent in their line-up to me. It has the space of a tunnel, with the bombproof and easy set-up of a dome. For motorcycle camping for 1 or 2 people the Tarra probably couldn't be beat by any tent on the market.

Edited by Jedi5150 on 02/10/2013 11:32:24 MST.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
3 Hillie household? on 02/10/2013 11:47:54 MST Print View

Doug - You've written previously about your Tarra and Nammatj 2. Do you still have those, now you're in possession of the Saitaris? I recall you thought the combination of the first two would work well for your family trips. Did you have a rethink?

I am now down to 2 Hillies - like Stephen I have a Soulo and a Kaitum 3. Petra graciously let me return my unused Staika after three months for a refund. Back problems last year meant I couldn't fathom carrying a shelter that heavy. Others have said it's perfect for motorcycle touring, kayak touring or use with a pulk - just not carried on your back. I've become more confident in the weather-handling of the tunnel tents, and I really appreciate the amount of extra space vs a dome.

Eventually I see myself using the Kaitum for winter backcountry trips, but with a young child and a tax accountant wife, my opportunities are slim at the moment. We'll be using it as a family shelter this coming summer. My two 60-70lb dogs fit perfectly in one vestibule and there's plenty of space for my rambunctious son to entertain himself with projects in case of bad weather.

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Re: 3 Hillie household? on 02/10/2013 12:18:30 MST Print View

Hi Stuart, I bet the Kaitum will work very well for a family summer tent.

I only have the Tarra and Saitaris now. I had the Nammatj 2 (non-GT), and briefly had a Saivo, which I upgraded to the Saitaris from.

Here's my thoughts on the two I didn't keep for long. The Nammatj 2 was a great tent, that I probably didn't give enough of a chance to. It was my first tunnel tent and after camping at a designated site (improved campground), where the ground was incredibly rocky and hard, I sort of got turned off the tunnel concept. Since then I've realized that I was using the wrong stakes for the ground conditions. I now carry all three types of pegs with me every time I camp (snow stakes, standard pegs, and titanium "nail" stakes). You're going to be shocked when I tell you what stakes I used with the Saitaris on this snow camping photo I just put up...the titanium nails. What you can't see in the photo is that when I set up the Saitaris it was about 3 or 4" of fresh powder on top of pure ice. The titanium nails were the only stakes I had that would penetrate the ice, even with a hammer to put them in. They held great. I have really learned that the only way to play it safe for staking is to carry a variety.

So in hindsight, I would like to give a tunnel another chance, but this time I would go for the Nammatj 3 GT. Unfortunately I can't justify another Hille now that we have the Tarra and Saitaris.

Now about the Saivo. I know that people who use it as intended, 2 or 3 person basecamps for a mountaineering tent, will have the perfect tent for their task. Here is what I didn't like about it for my uses: A dome really needs to have the head-room for me to be happy in it. I have to be able to sit up without hitting my head on the ceiling. The Tarra, because of it's tunnel/ dome shape, has exellent headroom for a 2 person "dome". The Saivo happens to land in that unfortunate spot where it is wide enough to hold 3 people, but the walls are too slanted to have decent headroom except for in the middle.

The Saitaris, on the other hand, is large enough that 4 grown people can sit a comfortable distance away from each other and still have enough headroom near the walls. It's going to sound really bad, but to me the Saivo felt like a smaller tent than the Tarra, but for more money and two extra pounds packed weight. Even the vestibules are much smaller, since the Saivo's inner tent doors are so slanted. The Tarra vestibules are the same size as the Saivo on paper, but much larger in real life. I don't mean to knock the Saivo...if you use it as intented It's a bombproof tent. But for my needs I wanted a more all-around tent and it landed in the middle of two sizes I like much better.

Edited by Jedi5150 on 02/10/2013 12:26:42 MST.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: 3 Hillie household? on 02/10/2013 12:52:11 MST Print View

Doug,

The Bpl review of the Kiatum 2 is what swung it for me, Its weak point is snow accumulation on the roof but if there is 2 or 3 folks in the tent someone will wake up every few hours and knock the snow off, but when I am solo camping I prefer the Dome protection of Soulo so I can sleep in peace.

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/hilleberg_kaitum_bomber_tent_review.html#.URf5Q3y9KSM

Cheers,

Stephen

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Anjan on 02/10/2013 15:33:14 MST Print View

Has anyone had a look at the Anjan yet?

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
One Hillie to rule them all on 02/10/2013 16:03:35 MST Print View

Doug - I can absolutely understand where you're coming from. In addition to the Soulo, Staika and Kaitum 3 I've mentioned before, I tried an Akto, a Nallo 2 and a Nallo 3GT. The Akto design is a good one, but the TarpTent Scarp 1 is the better variant. I didn't get on with the Nallo 2's sloping roofline - two people couldn't sit up comfortably at once. I liked the Nallo 3GT a lot - the extended vestibule was awesome - but decided that more space in the inner tent and two vestibules was more important for the same weight, which I why I kept the Kaitum 3 instead.

From the photos I see the Saitaris has boatloads of headroom, much more so than any other in the range except the Atlas or Altai. The Kaitum 3 is fine, but I wouldn't be doing calisthenics in there :-) I think the Saitaris has a good 8" more headroom. How was the ventilation with the combination of vestibule vents and roof vents open? I really appreciate the vestibule vents on the Kaitum. And how was the wind noise with the roof vent cover? A complaint I've heard but yet to experience with the Soulo is that the vent cover can flap around noisily in strong winds.

As for the pegs you used, I can believe it. The main part of the shelter is freestanding, so it's really only the vestibule that needs to be anchored to maintain its structure, and the guylines to keep the side panels strong under a heavy snowload. One time I neglected to secure the guyline on the back of the Soulo (ie opposite the door). We had 2' wet heavy snow overnight, and when I woke up the inner tent had lost 1/3 of its usable space due to the weight of snow on the large panels of Kerlon 1200.

What I couldn't tell is whether you dug down before you pitched the Saitaris, and/or piled snow against the sides. I'll assume there was some accumulation overnight, but I'd expect to see some on the top of the vestibule unless it was all windblown.

There's one other model I'm tempted by, and that's the Jannu. However the entrance is very low due to its profile, and I'm told it's like crawling under a tarp to get in there. That, and it's snug for two.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Re: Anjan on 02/10/2013 16:21:25 MST Print View

For the same packed weight as the Soulo, I like the look of the Anjan 3GT.

I did read a review of the Anjan 2 on outdoorgearlab.com - the one Max was selling on Gear Swap recently. Strange review, given that it was being compared with the TarpTent Double Rainbow, Terra Nova Solar Photon 2, and the Big Agnes Fly Creek 2 Platinum. Those shelters have almost nothing in common, so to force-fit a ranking is just bizarre.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Anjan on 02/10/2013 17:04:38 MST Print View

The Anjan 2GT looks nice, I really like the idea of the big vestibule.

That Outdoorgearlab did seem a bit odd having some of those other tents, one thing I will say is the sites reviews have got far more detailed lately.

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Re: One Hillie to rule them all on 02/10/2013 18:35:07 MST Print View

Stephen, thanks for the link to the Kaitum review. I'll give that a peek.

Stuart, the Saitaris is very nice for headroom. But if someone were going for pure usable space, I think the Keron 4GT would be even better. It's true that the inner tent height is 6" higher (at 50" )in the Saitaris than the Keron 4 (44"), but the Keron has it's peak height usable the entire length of the tent, and the walls are more vertical. Not to mention the vestibule in the Keron 4GT must be enormous. Because the "tunnel" part of the Saitaris is much lower than the dome, I'd imagine the vestibule of the Saitaris is closer in size to a 3GT, or even a 2GT. The Keron 4GT vestibule is probably about 48" in height, and obviously very much wider than on the Saitaris.

So again, if space was my only goal, I'd have opted for the 4GT. But a big part of my decision was the design (I admit I'm vain hahaha)..the Saitaris just looks REALLY cool. And I like the bombproof confidence it inspires. Part of me also likes the cozy home feel of going in a smaller entrance and entering a much bigger living area.

I've read nothing but rave reviews about the Jannu. After seeing one set up in person, I've got to warn you that it is a pretty small tent for a 2 person. Both the Tarra and Nammatj 2 I had seemed MUCH bigger inside than the Jannu.

For my pitching conditions, as I said there was about 3 to 4" of powder on top of ice. I just plopped the tent right down on it...didn't try to pack it down or anything. All the snow you see in the photos is windblown. It snowed all night and was very windy, so I think the wind was continually blowing the snow off the roof. The wind noise was not unbearable, but I haven't done a lot of camping in super windy conditions so I don't really know what to compare it to.

It was quite cold, and none of the snow was wet or sticky. Almost like dry little pellets. It did push in a bit on the rear vestibule, and a little on the sides, however, not to the point that the inner tent was contacted. For snow, I found I really love the GT vestibule door. I unzipped it as you saw in the photo, from the top, so snow wouldn't come spilling in. It still leaves plenty of room to get in an out. With just a traditional door like on the Nammatj 2 I had, or even the Tarra, they can be opened from the top but the opening will be very narrow unless you do it all the way to the ground, which in this case was under a foot of snow.

Edited by Jedi5150 on 02/10/2013 18:43:12 MST.

Backpack Jack
(jumpbackjack) - F

Locale: Armpit of California
Removed on 02/10/2013 21:05:36 MST Print View

NM

Edited by jumpbackjack on 02/11/2013 20:56:02 MST.

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
One 'Berg to rule them all on 02/10/2013 21:46:20 MST Print View

Mine's warmer.

'berg sounds stronger...

ZERO interest in a Caffin. Sorry Roger.

Edited by kthompson on 02/10/2013 21:59:33 MST.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Soulo in wet, heavy snow Feb 2012 on 02/10/2013 21:57:49 MST Print View

Doug - Thanks again for breathing life into this thread, and sharing your experiences. Agreed, everyone I've spoken to - including folks at Hilleberg - warned me the Jannu is snug for two. They tried to get me to go for the Tarra, but the weight difference was offputting. I do appreciate your real world thoughts about the different models, and that you're willing to admit some of the design limitations of your $4-figure Kerlon 1800 palace.

I went through my photo library and found the Soulo in the winter storm last year where space limitations prevented me from fixing the guyline on the back of the tent. I live on a hillside, and my yard (if you can call it that) is a 45 degree slope. So I set the Soulo up on my deck to see how well it'd work. We had over 2' of cement-like snow overnight, and temps stayed in the 20s. I dug myself out in the morning to discover this sight. You'll see how the guylines on the front and sides of the Soulo helped it keep its structural integrity, but the absence on the back resulted in loss of internal volume. Not enough that I noticed it till morning, however.

Soulo-Storm1

Soulo-Storm2

Soulo-Storm3

Soulo-Storm4

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
'Berg it is on 02/10/2013 22:14:08 MST Print View

Alright Ken, purely in terms of word association - I'd say strong, yes absolutely. But warm? That's not the first thing that comes to mind :-) Yet I've never been cold in my Soulo or Kaitum.

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
'Berg it is on 02/10/2013 22:17:57 MST Print View

Warmth I know in the same conditions that the double walled Unna would be noticeably warmer and drier than the Moment.

That the Moment is still standing under all that is testament to good design though. I think Jack would agree that he was pushing it's limits on that trip.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
'Berg it is on 02/10/2013 22:22:32 MST Print View

Like I said, Ken - purely by word association it seemed discordant. In reality, you'll have no argument from me that the 'Berg inners help keep them toasty.

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: 'Berg it is on 02/10/2013 22:28:39 MST Print View

Oh yeah. A little slow on the uptake(me)

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
Moment, snow load and the future on 02/10/2013 22:41:11 MST Print View

My modified Moment with the crossing pole inside the canopy will fare even better in a snow load, as will my similarly modified Scarp 2.

The problem with the CURRENT Moment is all the mesh at many places. Snow will just blow in despite your best efforts.

Now, if the Moment just had a separate inner like the Notch it could be made of ripstop instead of mesh.

Edited by Danepacker on 02/11/2013 01:26:17 MST.

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Hilleberg drift on 02/10/2013 22:48:17 MST Print View

Snow pun.

Eric, Do you use Google alerts? Relentless...

Edited by kthompson on 02/10/2013 22:49:29 MST.

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Re: Soulo in wet, heavy snow Feb 2012 on 02/10/2013 23:00:03 MST Print View

Great photos of the Soulo, Stuart! Thanks for posting them. I know the back deck may not be the wildest environment a Hilleberg has tackled, but the deep snow load is impressive all the same. :)

Backpack Jack
(jumpbackjack) - F

Locale: Armpit of California
Removed on 02/11/2013 00:01:25 MST Print View

NM

Edited by jumpbackjack on 02/11/2013 20:56:39 MST.

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: TT Moment on 02/11/2013 08:32:24 MST Print View

I love the Moment design, although in my experience it proved to be a condensation generating machine so not surprised by the additional warmth comment.

However, this thread was started as a Hilleberg only thread. Why clutter it up with alternative options?

Next...hammocks in the snow. Stay tuned.

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Re: Re: TT Moment on 02/11/2013 12:42:34 MST Print View

"I love the Moment design, although in my experience it proved to be a condensation generating machine so not surprised by the additional warmth comment.

However, this thread was started as a Hilleberg only thread. Why clutter it up with alternative options?

Next...hammocks in the snow. Stay tuned."



Thanks Dave. I tried to make it obvious from the title that Hilleberg tents were the subject of the thread, but I guess it was too subtle for some. ;-)

I don't mind discussions of comparing Hilleberg features to another brand, but I don't understand the idea of coming to a thread for a specific product and then focussing on something entirely different. I believe "thread hijack" is the internet term for that. I'm sure someone could easily start a Tarptent or Big Agnes thread if that was their area of interest.

Edited by Jedi5150 on 02/11/2013 12:45:21 MST.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Re: Anjan on 02/11/2013 13:47:46 MST Print View

So folks, anyone else have any thoughts on the Anjan.

Backpack Jack
(jumpbackjack) - F

Locale: Armpit of California
Hilleberg Tent thread on 02/11/2013 21:14:38 MST Print View

Since this is about Hilleberg Tents I've removed my post, and if I ever had to buy a Hilleberg it would be the Unna, like the one Ken T. had at the GGG, other than that these tents are over priced and to heavy for my useage.

Jack

Robert M
(person9334)

Locale: Eastern VA/SE TX
Nallo 2 on 02/12/2013 10:26:01 MST Print View

I thought I might chime in with my recent Nallo 2 purchase. I went to the Grayson highlands area of Virginia a few weeks ago expecting freezing conditions and snow and ended up getting temps in the 50s during the day and mid 30s at night. All the snow that was present had melted leaving the ground extremely wet and boggy no matter where we tried to pick a camp, surprisingly with no ground cloth there was no seep through of that water through the tent, and with the door and vents open there was very little condensation build up. We did get wind constant at about 20mph gusting up to a bit more and the tent held with no issues, however as you might be able to see in this image the foot area of the tent was collapsing despite all attempts to re-pitch that area. I think the solution is another guy line set, that would weight very little, I'm thinking of trying to get someone to add them on for me as I have no experience doing so myself.


Nallo 2

Edited by person9334 on 02/12/2013 10:28:03 MST.

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Re: Re: Re: Anjan on 02/12/2013 10:43:00 MST Print View

Stephen - did you see the review over at Trailspace.com? Also, Vigil Guy on these forums has one and would provide an opposing view to the review. I know that he really likes his!

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anjan on 02/12/2013 10:59:58 MST Print View

Cheers Dave,

I did see Rick Pittsburgs review and he reckoned the high cut fly causes some issues, I will check ou what Vigil says.

Cheers,

Stephen

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
Akto design genius on 02/12/2013 12:29:12 MST Print View

If one looks closely at the Akto solo tent and then at Tarptent's Moment, Notch and Scarps your can easily see the "theme and variation", with the Akto setting the theme of single hooped tents with vestibule(s).

Henry Shires took the Akto design and added his own genius of design.

But for me the Hilleberg Tarra and similar Hilleberg designs would be my choice for a Greenland-type expedition. They are bombproof and one could easily sit in the tent snd cook in a dug down vestibule in bad weather.

"Snow load" is often discussed but most tents, even many 3 season tents, can withstand VERTICAL snowload. But when the snow slides down and builds up around teh tent sides it presses in a lot, reducing interior space. This is what I call "side snow load". Often one must get out at "0 dark thirty" to shovel snbow away from the sides.

True dome tents (NOT wedge tents) with plenty of poles running down the sides are the ones that fare best with side build up of snow. (I know Roger Caffin loves tunnel tents but they too are prone to distortion from side snow load.)

Jason Elsworth
(jephoto) - M

Locale: New Zealand
Anjan on 02/12/2013 13:53:28 MST Print View

Damien Tougas from BPL has been testing one, so we may get a review on here some time.

John Martin
(snapyjohn) - M

Locale: Pacific NW
Rogan on 02/12/2013 14:26:10 MST Print View

I have been watching for some feedback on the Rogan. Is there ever a sale price on Hilleberg. A coupe of years ago Moosejaw had a sale but have not seen anything since. Backcountry Gear has sales in store occasionally limited to stock on hand.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Anjan on 02/12/2013 14:37:04 MST Print View

Cheers Jason,

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Discounts on 02/12/2013 15:40:46 MST Print View

Hilleberg is one of a few companies that prohibit retailers from discounting prices. Retailers can have their distribution rights pulled if they violate that agreement. I've had conversations with a few independent (ie non-chain) retailers and what that boils down to is that they cannot advertise at a discounted price. So for example, a store wide discount coupon, if widely promoted, usually excludes brands like Hilleberg.

But in reality, it's up to the retailer to decide whether they will discount without promoting it. I've walked in to a store wide sale where Hilleberg was specifically excluded in the advertising, but I've seen a small number of their tents discounted in-store. It's really hit-or-miss, and I'd say your best chance will be with independent brick and mortar retailers.

Have you looked at the Special Offers page on Hilleberg's US web page?

Edited by lotuseater on 02/12/2013 15:47:48 MST.

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: Akto design genius on 02/12/2013 15:54:31 MST Print View

> True dome tents (NOT wedge tents) with plenty of poles running down the sides are
> the ones that fare best with side build up of snow.
I think what Eric is referring to here are more commonly known as geodesic domes - with many poles. They are usually 3-4 man tents and are of course much heavier.

> (I know Roger Caffin loves tunnel tents but they too are prone to distortion from
> side snow load.)
True, I like tunnels. I agree that a 2-pole tunnel will be susceptible to sideways snow loading (or wind loading), although not as much as a 2-pole pop-up style of dome. The shorter poles on the tunnel are stiffer. But any long fabric spans, on tunnel or dome, are weak. This is why I have 4 poles on my winter tunnel tent. It helps that the side walls of my tent are close to vertical for some height as well.

My experience has been more with violent windy storms than with gentle but very heavy snow falls. We just don't get 1 m falls in a night here in Oz: we are happy to have a total of 1 m of snow on the ground!

When we do get some sideways snow loading on our 4-pole tent, I just give it a bit of a shove outwards. So far that seems to have worked.

Cheers

Peter Evans
(NLslacker)
Bivanorak on 02/22/2013 19:01:32 MST Print View

I recently got a Bivanorak... Very nicely made, I have not spent any time in it yet, so I cannot give a review.
It's beautifully made and roomy though. Just the thing I was looking for to use as foul weather gear and as a bivy when using a tarp. I can't wait to get out to use it.

It is so nice, Now I want a solo tent.
I can't decide between the Atko and the Unna.bivanorak

Edited by NLslacker on 02/22/2013 19:03:25 MST.

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Bivanorak on 02/22/2013 19:04:57 MST Print View

Over 6' ?

Unna.

but I'm biased.

Peter Evans
(NLslacker)
Unna on 02/22/2013 19:10:20 MST Print View

Yes, I'm 6'2" ... I like the look of the tunnel tents, esp the vestibules. But for a solo tent the Unna looks nice and easy to set up. Free standing appeals to me. If i want a fussy shelter, I'll just use my tarp :)

Edited by NLslacker on 02/22/2013 23:01:39 MST.

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Unna on 02/22/2013 23:43:52 MST Print View

You will also fit in the Akto but head room is a little short. The usable length, however, is excellent and functionally longer than the Unna. The best thing about the Akto is the well designed vestibule. The Unna doesn't have one.

diego dean
(cfionthefly)
Re: Re: Unna on 02/23/2013 05:05:53 MST Print View

Dave U,

At 6'2 myself, would I be able to fit my long down bag on a 2 inch matt without touching either end in the Unna? Im looking at Hillenburg for a winter only tent.

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Re: Re: Unna on 02/23/2013 07:06:59 MST Print View

You should just be able to fit without touching the inner tent but it will depend on the loft of the bag. It is nowhere near as bad as the Nallo or Anjan with respect to a sloping wall by your feet. You can also sleep at an angle for a little more effective length. Head room is excellent.

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Unna on 02/23/2013 08:34:56 MST Print View

+1 w/Dave I'm 6'3" and sleep on a Neoair. It is long enough. I nned to add some photos of me in the tent for the review I posted on the first page of this thread.

diego dean
(cfionthefly)
Re: Re: Unna on 02/23/2013 08:58:41 MST Print View

Photos would be great! Probably going to get either the Unna or the Kaitum 2.

Also, if anybody has specs on the packed size of either of these that would be great. My understanding is that they come with a larger than neccesary stuff bag, but Id like to know max pole section length and the minimum sized stuff bag that either could fit.

Edited by cfionthefly on 02/23/2013 09:02:21 MST.

Charles Jennings
(vigilguy) - F - M

Locale: Northern Utah
Hilleberg Anjan Use in the Winds on 02/23/2013 10:42:13 MST Print View

"So folks, anyone else have any thoughts on the Anjan."

Anjan 2

Stephen - If you live in the U.K., I would probably steer you towards one of their 4 season models where the outer fabric goes all the way to the ground. I am only saying that due to exposure and driving rains in your area.

I used the Anjan for 5 days in the Winds, right at Tree line, we found a cluster of trees for protection. We encountered two days and nights of high winds and rain. Sometime the winds were "pounding" in the middle of the night. I had the Anjan guyined out properly and it was solid with very little movement. The trees helped to dampen the wind gusts as well. Rain only entered the bottom of the vestibule only two or three inches, not a big deal. I just moved my stuff closer to the middle.

For somebody that wants to cut weight and bulk, but still have a secure shelter, the Anjan is a great choice. It DOES REQUIRE MORE ATTENTION in regards to site selection, positioning with respect to the wind direction, and other details. I have taken tarp clients with me, and they are very careful and very experienced in their setup with their tarps.

Since I normally use packgoats on our guided trips, weight is not an issue with us, so I have since sold the Anjan and now use the Nammatj, which I dearly love, based on where I live and hike.

Much has been said about the sloping end of the Nallo and Anjan, usually by posters that do not have actual field experience with either shelter. It has rarely been an issue with me. In fact, I chose to sleep in the Anjan with my head towards the sloping end and the foot of my bag towards the door, during our 5 day stay in the winds last September, and it worked fine for me. I used an Exped UL 7 (LW) mat and a Montbell SS UL #1. I am 6' 1" and had no issues with innter tent length, as I said.

FYI, http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Backpacking-Tent-Reviews Note the Editor's choice award for the Anjan after extensive use in the field.

DISCLAIMER : I have been an authorized Hilleberg Retailer for Approx. 10 years. Having said that, I also have actual field experience with every one of their tent models, except the Rajd.

Edited by vigilguy on 02/23/2013 11:08:39 MST.

Charles Jennings
(vigilguy) - F - M

Locale: Northern Utah
Hilleberg Kaitum photo in the Winds on 02/23/2013 10:59:34 MST Print View

"Photos would be great! Probably going to get either the Unna or the Kaitum 2.

Also, if anybody has specs on the packed size of either of these that would be great. My understanding is that they come with a larger than neccesary stuff bag, but Id like to know max pole section length and the minimum sized stuff bag that either could fit."Kaitum

Kaitum is an awesome tent. Doug Johnson here at BPL posted a great review in year's past. Keep in mind that the Kaitum is a long tent and takes up considerable real estate.

As I recall, the stuff sack dimensions for the Kaitum are approx. 6" X 20". Couldn't find it in the catalogue, I'll check some more places.

Edited by vigilguy on 02/23/2013 11:02:33 MST.

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Hilleberg Anjan Use in the Winds on 02/23/2013 11:21:29 MST Print View

Charlie, given you had an Unna, how did it compare to the Anjan?

I miss my Nammatj. I liked how the foot end sloped at a less aggressive angle than the Nallo.

Charles Jennings
(vigilguy) - F - M

Locale: Northern Utah
Nallo used with winter bags on 02/23/2013 11:28:42 MST Print View

Nallo

Nallo in the Winter at zero degree temps. Valandre Thor expedition bag.

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Unna pole length on 02/23/2013 11:40:21 MST Print View

17" sections

I've only used the supplied bag.

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Nallo used with winter bags on 02/23/2013 11:40:54 MST Print View

Not much room for person number 2. How much was the foot end of the bag touching the inner?

Charles Jennings
(vigilguy) - F - M

Locale: Northern Utah
Unna on 02/23/2013 11:41:44 MST Print View

"Charlie, given you had an Unna, how did it compare to the Anjan?"

Yep, I have owned the Unna. REALLY like it for a solo shelter. Now that I am 55 yrs old, I prefer to have more room in the inner space than when I was younger. I liked the small footprint of the unna, and it sets up fast. I also like the free standing nature, where I can shake out the pine needles (that got inside the tent) the next morning. The Unna opens wide for easy access for entering and exiting. Kinda miss the vestibule on it, but it wasn't a deal breaker. Tons of room inside for one person. Strong tent for conditions that are less demanding than what the Nammatj can handle.

The Unna is 14 oz. heavier than the Anjan, so the Anjan excels when I am weight conscious, IMO. The Anjan is romy as well, but with a front entry, as you know. Very different models for different uses.

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Unna on 02/23/2013 11:45:14 MST Print View

Darn....I think I want an Unna now. But the Anjan looks like it as more features.....do you provide group discounts? ; )

Charles Jennings
(vigilguy) - F - M

Locale: Northern Utah
Nallp on 02/23/2013 11:46:58 MST Print View

"Not much room for person number 2. " Ha! you're funny David. Did you take a good look at the SIZE of the bag I was using? The Thor is a beast, with 12+" of loft. -50 bag. Of course it is gonna take up tons of room.






"How much was the foot end of the bag touching the inner?" Wasn't that noticeable, but maybe I just don't fret about it. I put my hard shell over the foot of the bag and it works for me.

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Nallp on 02/23/2013 11:48:22 MST Print View

That was the point. That is one ENORMOUS bag.

Diplomatic Mike
(MikefaeDundee)

Locale: Under a bush in Scotland
House living on 02/23/2013 11:49:15 MST Print View

I realise this is a Hillie thread, but folk discussing carrying a heavy house somehow seems weird on BPL.
Anyone can carry a house?

Charles Jennings
(vigilguy) - F - M

Locale: Northern Utah
Hilleberg on 02/23/2013 11:50:28 MST Print View

"Darn....I think I want an Unna now. But the Anjan looks like it as more features.....do you provide group discounts? ; )"


Ha! Not if I wanna keep my dealership! But I do throw in a footprint for free. :-)


Buy BOTH David. You make more money than most of us here! ;-)

Charles Jennings
(vigilguy) - F - M

Locale: Northern Utah
Nammatj on 02/23/2013 11:53:47 MST Print View

"I miss my Nammatj. I liked how the foot end sloped at a less aggressive angle than the Nallo."


I also like the rear vent that the Nammatj has.

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Nammatj on 02/23/2013 12:02:12 MST Print View

My kids are sucking my disposable income dry.

Yes! The ventilation in the Nammatj is excellent.

Mike, its nothing that a little quad strength can take care of.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Hilleberg Anjan Use in the Winds on 02/23/2013 12:49:51 MST Print View

Thanks Charles of your post.

I was looking at the Anjan 2 for trips with my buddy or wife but after checking out the pictures on Moontrail decides against it.

I never hear of someone using Pack goats, maybe pack in Ireland we should start using Pack sheep ;-)

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Updates on 02/25/2013 19:23:27 MST Print View

Great updates to the thread on the Anjan! Thanks for the photos.

Ever since I saw Charles' packgoats on 24hourcampfire I've been in love with the idea. Tried convincing the wife we desperately NEED some pack goats. Since I live in an apartment and have two decent sized dgos, space will be a concern. Hahahaha

Ken, thanks as always for the Unna info. I'm actually going to send you a PM/ email with specific Unna questions if you don't mind.

Peter, I also bought one of their bivanoraks. I bought mine to use for an emergency kit, and to take on long day-hikes in case I get stuck out at night (and in my SAR pack). In other words, a shelter for when I'm not planning on needing one.

Peter Evans
(NLslacker)
The Anjan 2 and 3 on 02/25/2013 19:41:02 MST Print View

I'm amazed the Anjan 3 or the Anjan 2 GT (huge extended vestibule) are both lighter than the Unna... and barely heavier than the Atko.

Even for solo trips I'd rather take a larger tent at the same weight.
It's hard to pick between them... they are all good designs.

The Anjan 3 is 1.7 Kg. it must be huge inside for 3 to fit.
The Anjan 2 is 1.5 Kg with a regular vestibule and lots of space inside.
The Atko is 1.3 Kg and looks like it could be pretty cramped inside for a big galloot like me.
The Unna is 1.9 Kg with no vestibule.

In terms of comfort and usability the Anjan in looking like a winner.
Am I missing something?

I don't want to buy the wrong tent... I want the right one, at these prices I can only buy one!

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: The Anjan 2 and 3 on 02/25/2013 19:57:48 MST Print View

Shorter poles and thinner fabric along with small interiors make the Anjans lighter. The two person is about the same size, but smaller inside than the Unna. The Unna is also 4 season rated.

Edited by kthompson on 02/25/2013 22:27:40 MST.

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Re: Re: Hilleberg Anjan Use in the Winds on 02/26/2013 00:38:45 MST Print View

Dave, you're not the only one who misses your Nammatj. I had the Nammatj 2 (the sand colored tent on the second or third page of this thread), for only a very short time. I quickly realized that staking was a pain in the butt, and traded the nammatj back in because of it.

That was a real mistake. The Nammatj 2 has a TON of room for a 2 person, bombproof tent. And as for staking, sure, it can be a pain, but there is always a way to make it work. I really wish I'd given the Nammatj more of a chance, I kind of feel like a moron for trading it in. But on the other hand, if you don't care about weight, my Tarra and Saitaris are outstanding tents, they just aren't suited for backpacking, unless the weight is well split up.



A big +1 to what Charles said about the sloping back wall of some Hillebergs. I read tons of horror stories about the Nallo and Nammatj back wall sloping and lack of room because of it. Like Charles, I actually prefered to sleep (and it worked just fine), with my head at the sloped end of the Nammatj. Even the 2 man was plenty big enough for me to do it without a problem.

Now I'm looking at a 1 or 2 man Hille to have as a summer-time solo, or solo+dog backpacking tent. I ahve a couple I'm considering, mainly because I love the Hilleberg's strength for using with a dog. Besides, these tents are like crack. hahahaha It's like a super expensive stamp collection. :P

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Nammatj on 02/26/2013 05:57:23 MST Print View

Doug,

I had a crawl around in a Nammajt 2 in a shop in Boulder last summer and really like it, in the end I purchased a Kaitum 3 instead (got a great deal on Gear swap), its a perfect tent for 3 people for a few days and an absolute place for 2, the 3 pole spans make if fairly stong also.

What tents are you considering for summer solo? The Unna with a mesh inner would be a nice option, allowing bug free space for your dog.
As mentioned realiser I use a Soulo but for summer I have a Tarp Tent Stratosphire 1, I did look at the Anjan 2 for both solo trips and for trips with the wife buy decided against it.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Super-expensive stamp collection on 02/26/2013 07:22:47 MST Print View

Ha! I like that, Doug. Given Hilleberg's propensity to increase prices ~10% annually over the long haul you may be right. And the 'bergs will be a dang sight more durable in the rain... Not quite as compact, and nowhere as easy to admire from within your apartment, however.

On the advice of NWHiker, who sold me my first 'berg, I almost picked up a Nammatj 3GT for its incredible vestibule and mesh-covered vents and door. I tried a Nallo 3GT for its lighter weight, but it didn't gel with me, due to the sloping roof. I did love the way you could roll back the end of the GT vestibule to create a covered porch, though.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Super-expensive stamp collection on 02/26/2013 08:52:02 MST Print View

They definitely are a super expensive stamp collection but cheap compared to the toys I see guys at work buying (and hardly ever using)

Edited by stephenm on 02/26/2013 08:53:14 MST.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Toys on 02/26/2013 09:24:47 MST Print View

Which population control toys would you be referring to, Stephen? Motorcycles or the other, unmentionable ones that would get this thread booted over to Chaff faster than a speeding bullet?

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Toys on 02/26/2013 09:35:27 MST Print View

Guns or motorbikes had not even crossed my mind Stuart, I was thinking of Jet skis, canoes, sailing boats, snow mobiles and the rest.

Donald Browning
(docdb) - M

Locale: SE USA
Hilleberg on 02/26/2013 19:04:56 MST Print View

I've had a tough night out in a sleet storm in an Akto, and ended up selling it. I absolutely love my Soulo for trips that I take with Sully my Belgian Sheepdog. When my daughter comes along, the Allak gets the nod (traded away a Jannu for that, and my daughter still sobs over losing "Big Red"). Have a new Nammatj 2GT that I've used a couple of times and really love the room in bad weather. I also use cuben tarps, and several types of hammocks.......half the fun is planning the gear for the trip.
Hille's rock,
Don

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Any regrets trading the Jannu? on 02/26/2013 19:07:07 MST Print View

Hi Don, I've never seen a Jannu up close and personal. Any regrets trading that for the Allak?

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Hilleberg on 02/26/2013 19:19:40 MST Print View

Hi Don,

Do you think that the Allak is as strong as the Soulo?
I would love to hear your views.

Cheers,

Stephen

Ryan McCabe
(3Tree) - MLife
unna on 02/26/2013 22:30:41 MST Print View

Ken, or anyone else,

How is the Unna for multiple days in the rain??
Is entering or exiting an issue without a vestible? Is there a way to keep a flap open for ventilation or even views without the rain getting in?

Thanks for any insights, and sorry if I missed mention of this earlier in the post.
Any other comments appreciated,
Ryan

Peter Evans
(NLslacker)
Anjan ... bad review on 02/27/2013 13:39:11 MST Print View

Here is a thread about the Anjan:
http://www.trailspace.com/forums/gear-selection/topics/124226.html

This is a link to a poor review:
http://www.trailspace.com/gear/hilleberg/anjan-2/#review25589

To summarize, the reviewer said the fly rides up way too high on the sides and in heavy rain the water can splash up and get into the tent. Does anyone here have any experience with this?
I thought I had my mind made up on the Anjan, but now I don't know, I don't want to spend a load of cash on a tent that under-performs. A tent that won't keep you dry during heavy rain is not much use, rain is what I need it for.

The Atko looks too cramped to sit out a bad day... most of the other models seem too heavy.
I wish I could just buy the fly and poles for the Nallo... then I'd be able to carry an acceptable load and ride out the worst weather.

Edited by NLslacker on 02/27/2013 15:54:50 MST.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Anjan ... bad review on 02/27/2013 13:45:38 MST Print View

"I wish I could just buy the fly and poles for the Nallo... then I'd be able to carry an acceptable load and ride out the worst weather."

You can do that with a Trailstar, as many have done. And it would be lighter.

As far as the Nallo, while you can't buy it separately, you can set it up with just the fly and poles if you wish, but you probably already knew that.

Anna T
(anzt)

Locale: Victoria, Australia
Unna vestibule? on 03/04/2013 15:35:56 MST Print View

Hi all. I'm looking at buying a Soulo or an Unna for a winter tent (I've got a Tarptent Moment and a Lightheart Gear Cuben Solo w/ Awning for the other seasons). I was hoping you'd help me choose.

I'm a 5'6" woman, and I prefer having my gear in the tent with me and not feeling too cramped. For this reason, I'm tending towards the Unna. However, I have two hesitations/questions:

1) Does anyone have experience cooking in the 'virtual' vestible some have claimed can be made by pulling back the inner? How does this work? Does it work well/safely and with sufficient ventilation? Does anyone have a picture of this?

2) Is the tent sufficiently storm-worthy for Australian and NZ alpine conditions? (I've seen references saying that the Soulo is stronger, but to me this doesn't mean that the Unna couldn't manage those conditions).

Also, as a bonus question, it looks to me (on paper specs and from the earlier image in this thread) that you could fit two people in the Unna without gear with the inner still attached. Has anyone tried this?

Thanks in advance (and forgive the slight thread drift). I'm just not comfortable heading into winter conditions without a bomber tent (I'm only just starting to look into winter backpacking for the first time this year.)

Edited by anzt on 03/04/2013 15:37:15 MST.

ed hyatt
(edhyatt) - MLife

Locale: The North
Unna vestibule on 03/04/2013 15:56:54 MST Print View

The Unna is as tough a tent as I have used; in 60mph + winds and driven rain in Scotland it has been like a limpet for me.

With regard to 'views when raining' - who could say, possible but it obviously depends on the pitch and if weather conditions change...

You could fit two (cosy) in the tent.

The 'virtual vestibule' has proven itself well on the few occasions I have had recourse to it...

unna vest

Anna T
(anzt)

Locale: Victoria, Australia
Thanks! on 03/06/2013 14:32:34 MST Print View

Ed - that is perfect, thank you! I think Hilleberg just picked up another sale :D

Jan S
(karl-ton)
Re: Re: A little schooling please... on 03/06/2013 17:13:23 MST Print View

"I can't see a reason NOT to go with a Hilleberg."

I can. It's the size. I'm 6' 2'' and in my Akto I manage to touch the walls at the foot end and the head end with my winter sleeping bag. The condensation in it is to be expected as it's a really old one without the top vent. But being build for short people seems to be a recurring thing with Hilleberg tents. As far as I know the Nallo (and the heavier version Nammatj?) seem to suffer from the same problem. The wall slopes simply aren't steep enough. My guess would be the Unna does too. Not really sure if the Soulo has steeper walls.

Other then that I think they're exceptionally well designed and built. The only trouble I can find with the two entrance tents is the weight and that I'm not sure I need the option to go to the south pole with my tent.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
New TT Moment DW on 03/06/2013 22:55:37 MST Print View

I predict Henry Shire's new Moment Double Wall tent will far outsell the Hilleberg Akto. And the Moment DW design features will be as responsible for sales as the lower price.

But we should all pay homage to the Akto for its groundbreaking design.

Jan S
(karl-ton)
Re: New TT Moment DW on 03/07/2013 06:00:43 MST Print View

Yes. I just ordered one to use instead of my Akto for 3+ season use. The high vertical ends and the better ventilation options (at least on paper) did it for me. The better price and weight helped. Although the price with Hillebergs is relative given that you get a solid tent for long, long time.

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Unna vestibule? on 03/07/2013 06:35:54 MST Print View

+1 w Ed. At 6'3" The Unna is long enough for me.

Ben Wortman
(bwortman)

Locale: Nebraska
Kaitum Weights on 03/10/2013 15:28:40 MDT Print View

I took the time to weigh all the components of my Kaitum 3 this afternoon. I thought I would post them incase anyone was interested. I always like to see this type of breakdown before I buy a tent so here it is:

Note: All weights were rounded up to the nearest oz.

Inner: 2 lbs 6 oz
Outer: 2 lbs 12oz
Stakes in sack: 8oz
Poles (no sack) 1 lb 2oz
Extra pole section and splicer: 1oz
Guylines: 6oz
Footprint: 1 lb 6 oz

Ben

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Kaitum 3 on 03/10/2013 19:54:35 MDT Print View

Ben - Your measurements are close enough to be identical with my K3. Total packed weight, excluding the footprint, is 7lb 3oz. I've yet to take the footprint out with me, as the floor is pretty robust, but if I expect high humidity from constant rainfall or spring snow, then I have it in reserve to help moderate the condensation inside the tent.

How'd you like the K3 so far?

Ben Wortman
(bwortman)

Locale: Nebraska
Kaitum on 03/10/2013 20:14:37 MDT Print View

So far I really like it. It has withstood some serious conditions in my basement. I actually have not had a chance to take it out in the wild yet, but I can't wait to get it some use. I haven't seen a tent build this robust, and I am sure it could handle any weather that I would take it out in. I am hoping to use it above treeline in CO ans WY. I always seem to find awesome camping spots on ridgetops or by some lake above the trees, but I have never used a shelter I felt comfortable in at those locations.

Have you used your's in severe conditions at all?

Ben

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Kaitum testing on 03/10/2013 21:54:12 MDT Print View

Let me guess, you fired up the hairdryer and let 'er rip :-) The Kaitum's arguably better suited to above treeline use than below, given its large footprint. After I left it at home and suffered with lesser shelters on two wildly windy trips in the Rockies last May and June, I took it out on a group trip at the end of September. Both nights we pitched at about 11,000ft, close to treeline. We expected decent snowfall but it didn't happen. And we barely got a puff of wind once we got off the continental divide. I bought it as more of a winter basecamp tent, but this year has been a bust so far due to work travel. I'm looking forward to taking it out in late April or May and will report back. There should still be some good snows on the ground at higher elevations, and the wind will be a solid test.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Kaitum on 04/15/2013 12:15:34 MDT Print View

This was taken two weeks ago on the Manistee River Trial in Michigan.

There was about a foot of snow on the ground which was totally unexpected. As we did no have skis or snowshoes or a shovel stomping out a pitch was a bit of a faff.



1

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Soulo Photos on 04/21/2013 14:34:59 MDT Print View

Here are some pictures taken on a trip last April in Ireland.
Also shown is an Atko, Tarp Tent Scarp 1 and Terra Nova Superlite Voyager.

1

2

Edited by stephenm on 04/21/2013 14:36:45 MDT.

Ben Wortman
(bwortman)

Locale: Nebraska
scarp on 04/21/2013 19:43:35 MDT Print View

Stephen, how do you think the scarp one held up next to the Hillebergs?

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: scarp on 04/21/2013 19:58:09 MDT Print View

Ben,

I have used a Scarp in some hairy conditions and it performed very well but the Soulo performs much better than it.

I am just in the door from the pub and Will give a more indepth reply tomorrow.

Cheers,

Stephen

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Soulo Pole cover issue on 04/24/2013 06:28:46 MDT Print View

I was pitching the Soulo in the garden on Sunday and noticed a small hole and abrasion on the pole and vent cover. The tent was a display model and I have only used it for 3 nights on it.

Hilleberg are repairing it.

1

Jon Solomon
(areality) - F - MLife

Locale: Lyon/Taipei
Aftermarket poles on 05/01/2013 03:55:01 MDT Print View

I am sure this has almost certainly been linked here, but just in case it has slipped out of people's minds: http://www.fliegfix.com/kategorien/optimierte-zeltgestaenge/154 Fliegfix offer aftermarket poles for Hilleberg tents (and others) in carbon fibre and scandium. Soulos, Unnas, Nallos...they could all benefit from different combos of these poles.

I'm using them with a Soulo. I have both carbon and Scandium ones. I also have and like very much the carbon ones for use with the Rab Latok Lite/ID MK1. Carbon poles are stronger than similar diameter alloy poles (though perhaps more prone to catastrophic failure, right?!) and they don't attract condensation inside tents the way alloy ones do.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Ordered an Unna on 06/15/2013 14:30:11 MDT Print View

Just ordered an Unna to replace my Soulo.

I ordered it from Bear River outfitters who is owned by Charles Jennings who posts on here :-)

Outstanding service from Charles.

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Ordered an Unna on 06/15/2013 20:03:14 MDT Print View

Yup, I always recommend Charlie (purchased from him a three times, twice Hilleberg).

Fantastic buying experience.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Ordered an Unna on 06/15/2013 20:51:51 MDT Print View

What started as a Pm last night asking his advice ended up with me purchasing the Unna :-)

Hart -
(backpackerchick) - MLife

Locale: Planet Earth
Re: Re: Re: Ordered an Unna on 06/26/2013 22:30:55 MDT Print View

Me too!

They were out of the new tan :( I ordered a red one.

What conditions will you use it in? How are you justifying the weight? I am not a gram weenie...but it's gonna be an extra kilo.

I got great service from shannon at hilleberg. You get a couple weeks (or even longer I was told if necessary) to play around with it inside and send it back if you change your mind.

Wish there was something out there of similar design of lighter materials. I have always wanted a tent with no vestibule!

Help me justify the weight ;) I want this tent!

And thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread! The photos are awesome.

Edited by backpackerchick on 06/26/2013 22:31:38 MDT.

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Ordered an Unna on 06/26/2013 22:38:52 MDT Print View

Congrats! Sure it is not the lightest tent out there. It's no tarp. Tarps are great for the times you don't need a tent. The other trips I'll take the hit on weight and stay warm, dry, and stress free in my rock of a shelter. 60mph winds. Slept the sleep of the dead. And when staked out you do actually get a small amount of vestibule space. Scoot the inner back a bit, I've cooked in there. Plenty of room in between the inner and outer for shoes anywhere along the perimeter. Without the inner it is positively huge in there.

Donald Browning
(docdb) - M

Locale: SE USA
I love Hillebergs, too on 06/27/2013 11:42:00 MDT Print View

I have a Unna on order, along with a mesh inner. I got a 20% off coupon from prolitegear and had to jump. I love the Hillebergs for bombproof simplicity, and I have a Soulo, but have always wanted a Unna to compare. I will likely sell the one that I decide against. Also have had a Jannu and Allak for comparison, and ended up keeping the Allak for the two person trips.
Don

Hart -
(backpackerchick) - MLife

Locale: Planet Earth
Unna came today; Any thought on Rajd on 06/28/2013 23:52:24 MDT Print View

It only took one day to get to SoCal FedEx ground. I ordered from Hillebrand. They were out of the Sand color so I got red. It seems like the red is a bit brighter than other Hillebrands I've seen on the trail. Shannon at Hillebrand told me that the sand color is darker this year. Sand was not available at the time I ordered. I may check back before I take my Unna outside. The red is nice though.

I set it up indoors. It is SPACIOUS! The simplicity of the design and set up is awesome. 2 minutes max on the first try...allow another 2 minutes for staking probably. No vestibule to struggle in and out of. This would be the perfect starter tent!

4.5 lbs...still struggling with that. There are clearly some mods that could be made to lighten it. (There is a thread somewhere covering this.)

I agree with the manufacturer's description in that this could double as a 2 person tent in a pinch. Most certainly a "one and a mutt" even for a bigger person and a good size "mutt".

Any thoughts about or experience with the Rajd. Clearly, a different class of tent for a different use. Looks more idiot proof than other tents in that class!

Photos to come...soon.

Thanks again for this thread and the inspiring photos (especially those by Jedi5150)!

Edited by backpackerchick on 06/29/2013 00:06:02 MDT.

peter vacco
(fluff@inreach.com)

Locale: no. california
Re: Unna came today; Any thought on Rajd on 06/29/2013 09:11:32 MDT Print View

Unna : wonderful accommodations. simply palatial.
kind'a big. kind'a heavy. kind'a has two EXtremely long poles.
but .. for a place to live in for days, while it's raining .. ohhh dear, it is sweet.

they are very nice inside. dry, spacious, open, and warm.
i installed a large window in mine (was long ago), and that made it more open visually and vented.

cheersUnna with window

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Unna came today on 06/29/2013 09:20:48 MDT Print View

Radj? Get a Lunar Duo. Gain two vestibules.

"4.5 lbs...still struggling with that"

I just think of the weight difference between it and my other shelters. So it's only a pound or so heavier. Big deal. Everything else is so light. Added warmth from the tent allows you to go slightly lighter on sleep gear.

Those long poles. You can feed them in and out in sections of assembled pole so you don't need ten feet of swinging room behind you to pitch.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Kaitum 3 on 06/30/2013 16:57:36 MDT Print View

Just back from a quick overnighter with two buddies and we used the Kaitum 3, night time temps where about 55f and we slept with the doors wide open and just the mesh inner door closed, it was nice and comfy.

One of my buddies did complain when I got out for a power room break but as its my tent I told him where to shove it :-)

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
Akto W/ "crossing pole" on 07/12/2013 20:36:06 MDT Print View

If I can rig a crossing pole inside my Moment why can't a crossing pole be rigged inside a Hilleberg Akto in the same manner?

And since I'm getting a Moment DW (as soon as the ripstop inner is available) and modding it for winter with the aforementioned inside crossing pole and a hearvier duty main hoop pole why can't that be done to an Akto as well?

All you Akto owners may want to give this some thought for a true winter worthy tent.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Akto W/ "crossing pole" on 07/12/2013 20:46:16 MDT Print View

Eric,

How dare you even mention modding a Hilleberg.

Please go back to your desk and write out.

"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"
"I will not dream of modding a Hilleberg"


:-)

Edited by stephenm on 07/12/2013 20:46:55 MDT.

Charles Jennings
(vigilguy) - F - M

Locale: Northern Utah
Modifying an Akto? on 07/12/2013 23:42:37 MDT Print View

"If I can rig a crossing pole inside my Moment why can't a crossing pole be rigged inside a Hilleberg Akto in the same manner?"

I suppose you could do this, but I think that is why they designed the Soulo model.

peter vacco
(fluff@inreach.com)

Locale: no. california
Re: Re: Akto W/ "crossing pole" on 07/13/2013 09:55:44 MDT Print View

there are scads of different ways to change the rigging of an akto. if you follow Roger C. he will lead thee into thinking about all manner of cross-rigged options.
the reality of the situation is that as it comes out of the box, the end rigging is set in a way that relies upon "somehow" holding down the lower corners. how this is done with rock anchors i may never know.
you can double up and splay the side guys (thank you Roger C.), and this greatly stiffens the pole support it gets from the fabric.
one might (will do it next spring) add a pair of adjustable tapes across the interior for those really nasty nights.
the end rigging is a complex thing unless you add a third (and unwanted) anchor point per end.

my standard set is the 4 corners. if you are a moment DW owner, you know that is 2 many.
if it's breezy, then it needs at least one side guy. now at 5.
more breeze = 6.
way outt'a hand = now 6 + the 2 side splayed lines + the another 1 at each end, and now we are at TEN !!!
that is 10 large heavy stacks of rocks. no need for a sleeping bag, i'll just stay warm all night moving granite.
my god, by the time you're done, a man could have staked a tarp !

planning a u-tube vid on akto rigging.

v.

Johan Engberg
(luffarjohan) - M

Locale: Wrong place at the right rime
akto-rigging on 07/13/2013 11:28:45 MDT Print View

I agree that Akto has one too many mandatory rigging points. It's not easy to pitch properly. Remember though that with fewer stakes comes a greater need to stake in good ground and/or reinforce with stones since each stake have to take a higher force. Above tree-line where Hilleberg has it's main focus a ****-load of guy-outs is something I like. Each Point won't take all the pressure and therefor there's less risk of a stake to be pulled out during a gust. Quite a few tents out there like to point out that it only has 4 or 5 stakes. Problem is that they can only use 4 or 5 stakes... My Jannu has 18.

It weighs in that region aswell though, I prefer lighter choices 90% of the time, 60% of the time. But for shoulder season, winter above tree line it's my bunker.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
Snow loads: Akto v.s. Moment on 07/13/2013 14:16:42 MDT Print View

(With apologies to Stephen and Hilleberg)

The design differences between the Akto and Moment account for very different abilities for each tent to shed heavy, wet snow.

The Akto has wide ends and consequently wide, and flatter canopy areas to hold snow.

The Moment has narrow AND peaked ends terminating with the strong shape of triangles. Its canopy goes from arched to pointed and snow more readily slides off.

Also it is easy to use just one crossing pole to support the Moment's canopy.
For the Akto I'd rather have TWO crossing poles as with the Scarp 1. (Of course, being an inveterate modder, I'd run them beneath the fly to grommets in each inside corner.)

CONCLUSION: The Akto can be made "Unna strong" by using TWO diagonal internal crossing poles (exactly as I did with my modded Scarp 2).
The Moment needs only one crossing pole to achieve the same effect.

Both tents need a stronger (thicker wall, larger diameter) main hoop pole for winter wind and snow loads. Tentpole Technologies can make 'em for you. About $40.

Edited by Danepacker on 07/13/2013 14:21:00 MDT.

peter vacco
(fluff@inreach.com)

Locale: no. california
Re: Snow loads: Akto v.s. Moment on 07/13/2013 14:53:33 MDT Print View

" The Akto can be made "Unna strong" by using TWO diagonal internal crossing poles "

peter is look'n at this as using tapes (straps, lines, etc) in tension. the pole in my sketches should be restrained from failing sideways by the windward splayed side guy lines. the internal tension lines are intended to keep the leeward side of the pole from failing by bulging outward.
i guess that inside poles would work in compression as well, and that might help, but you'd need to bring them all the way to ground for them to push against something. that would really cramp the internal volume, which that still beats 100% blowing out a tent.
but does it not seem that tension costs less weight ?

will post pics when i make something worth seeing.

v.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Snow loads: Akto v.s. Moment on 07/13/2013 14:56:27 MDT Print View

I forgive you Eric :-)

Johan Engberg
(luffarjohan) - M

Locale: Wrong place at the right rime
Thread drift on 07/14/2013 00:18:04 MDT Print View

I like that modification of your TT Moment Eric. I wonder if it could be done to a Laser Comp? I'll think I'll give it a try. I like that tent but it's way too flappy in serious wind.

Question, if one would modify his/her double walled tent by adding an internal pole, how to make it easy to set up? What I mean is since the fly and the inner goes up at the same time the lazy solution (Construction wise) is to simply hook off the inner and insert the crossing pole. But I wonder if there's another way? External pole-sleeve with a "dent" making the pole a V-shape. Maybe external hooks is easier?

By the way, thicker poles can be bought directly from Hilleberg.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
"lazy" inner pole setup on 07/14/2013 00:43:12 MDT Print View

Johan,

1.-> I leave my Scarp 2 iner attatched to the fly one ONE side at the corners. door area and at the top.

2.-> Then I set up the tent with the main hoop pole and corner stakes.

3.-> Next I go inside the fly and place the two crossing poles (the inner tent hangs from the opposite side giving me room to do this).

4.-> Finally I re-attatch the rest of the inner tent.

5.-> If heavy snow or wind is forecast I then add extra guy lines and stakes or snow deadmen.
REALLY high winds require fly bottom stakes, main hoop guy lines and at each end ski/hiking poles as struts for guying out the center of the fly guy points. (Again, see Tarptent online catalog photos of this.) This is a "belt-and-suspenders" solution because some of the guys may pull their stakes in a bad storm.

Hart -
(backpackerchick) - MLife

Locale: Planet Earth
Back and forth! on 07/19/2013 21:51:12 MDT Print View

I sent back the Unna and ordered a Rajd. I opened the Rajd and realized I need something idiot proof.

I ordered the Unna again. Shannon at Hilleberg has been a great help. She knows the tents...and uses them. She has been SO patient! I am getting a Sand (Shannon says it's a bronze) colored Unna this time. It isn't on the Hilleberg site. Some retailers have it. And sometimes Hilleberg seems to find a few. I can't wait to post photos of my Unna in the Alps and Pyrenees. Now to find a way to shed 1.5 lbs elsewhere!

Thanks again for this thread!

Bob Dromgoole
(lowebyrrd)
Interview with Petra Hilleberg on 08/19/2013 13:39:55 MDT Print View

Came across this today...

http://podbay.fm/show/618500240/e/1161907901?autostart=1

Peter Evans
(NLslacker)
Bivanorak on 08/22/2013 21:25:41 MDT Print View

Bivanorak...
I like it, it has been used mostly as a bivy, but I have worn it in wet/windy conditions and it holds up well.
It makes the sleeping bag much warmer, and I don't need to worry about moisture so much, or bring a groundsheet.

B

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Kaitum 3 on 11/04/2013 18:16:51 MST Print View

I had my Kaitum 3 out again two weeks bringing my wife on her 1st backpacking trip, this is about my 5th or 6th trip in the Kaitum and I like it more every trip, split between 2 the weight is ok but split between 3 its an easy carry.

I have not had a chance to use my new Unna yet (bought to replace a Soulo) but hope to do so soon.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Hilleberg love on 01/05/2014 20:27:46 MST Print View

Keeping the thread alive :-)

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Hilleberg love on 01/05/2014 20:53:17 MST Print View

Had a request to bring the Unna to the GGG. So I will. Was going to anyway.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Hilleberg on 01/06/2014 05:43:40 MST Print View

its the perfect solo tent for this time of year Ken.

Mike R
(redpoint) - F

Locale: British Columbia
My new Soulo on 01/06/2014 19:43:41 MST Print View

My new Soulo in Joshua Tree National Park. I generally only use single wall tents, but I made an exception here. It's a fantastic tent that's beautifully designed and constructed. The Kerlon fabric is wild stuff.

Soulo in J-Tree

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Custom inners on 01/08/2014 09:10:10 MST Print View

Folks,

Has anyone toyed with the idea of getting a custom inne made up for a Hillbeeg, the reason I ask is I came across this one for the Unna from oookworks

http://oookworks.com/OookBlog/?p=77

stephen billings
(stephenb) - MLife

Locale: oregon
Custom Inners on 01/08/2014 12:04:55 MST Print View

Stephen M,

I also answered your other ? concerning a solid Unna inner in a SL 5 in the Winter mid thread in the Winter hiking section.

Although I do not have a Unna fly or frame anymore ( only a Unna solid inner), I do know you can make a MLD solo net work in an Unna real easy. Just hang the top loop of the MLD nest and then attach the bottom stake points on the nest to connection points in the Unna. And then attach the side loop point on the nest to a connection point on the Unna. Works easy- basically the MLD solo nest is just a big peaked bug bivy.

Edited by stephenb on 01/08/2014 12:16:24 MST.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Custom Inners on 01/08/2014 12:27:17 MST Print View

Thats good to know Stephen :-)

Mike R
(redpoint) - F

Locale: British Columbia
Back in the Soulo's native environment ... on 01/14/2014 01:20:57 MST Print View

A quick overnight ski trip: 12 hours door-door. The Soulo pitches fast and has a lot of great design features.

approx. 4 feet of snow
0730 - time to go

Edited by redpoint on 01/14/2014 01:22:31 MST.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Back in the Soulo's native environment ... on 01/14/2014 07:54:44 MST Print View

Sweet :-)

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
AKTO on Backpacker's "Winter Tents" online reviews on 01/14/2014 13:12:24 MST Print View

The AKTO is listed in Backpacker Magazine's online "Winter Tents" review as a good solo winter tent.

I respectfully disagree:

The AKTO will not do well in a heavy snow load, something EVERY winter tent should handle well.

That's why I'm going with the Tarptent Moment DW with ripstop inner and a crossing pole, which I'll shorten to run inside the fly for more support.

Plus, in my own experience the Moment DW is more aerodynamic/wind-worthy than the AKTO, a weakness mentioned in the Backpacker review.

The AKTO and the Scarp 1 are nearly twins BUT the Scarp 1 has optional X-ing poles for snow/wind load resistance. Why can't Hilleberg offer some kind of X-ing poles for the AKTO??

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: AKTO on Backpacker's "Winter Tents" online reviews on 01/14/2014 13:20:32 MST Print View

Hi Eric,

The Atko with cross poles is a Soulo.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
SOULO on 01/14/2014 13:41:27 MST Print View

Stephen,

Yeah, the Soulo is "kinda-sorta" like an AKTO with X-ing poles, but more aerodynamic and a true winter tent.

I wonder why Backpacker "in all its wisdom" didn't just use the Soulo as a good solo winter tent.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: SOULO on 01/14/2014 13:44:32 MST Print View

I would take backpacker with a pinch of salt.

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Re: AKTO on Backpacker's "Winter Tents" online reviews on 01/14/2014 13:45:20 MST Print View

I had an Akto and it really is a well made, sturdy in a Sh*t storm, and very, very durable. Eric is correct. It is not a great tent for heavy winter snow.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Re: AKTO on Backpacker's "Winter Tents" online reviews on 01/14/2014 14:16:29 MST Print View

I have heard a lot of good things about the Atko from buddies, but for heavy snow an Unna or Soulo is better.

Michael Wainfeld
(Adox) - M

Locale: EastCoast
Soulo on 01/14/2014 14:17:17 MST Print View

Untitled

Untitled

Taking my Soulo up to the Adirondacks at the end of the month. We want SNOW!!!

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Soulo on 01/14/2014 14:27:00 MST Print View

The Soulo does look really nice, I ended up swapping mine for an Unna to have more head space.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
3 Hillie Family on 02/08/2014 17:16:30 MST Print View

Just purchased a Nammatj 2 as had been waiting for Rogers winter tent.
Already have a Kaitum 3 and Unna.
The Kaitum rekindled my old love of tunnels.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Nammatj on 02/14/2014 08:24:01 MST Print View

The Nammatj should be here tomorrow, I will post some pics.

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Re: Nammatj on 02/14/2014 13:02:14 MST Print View

I didn't realize this thread was still alive...I need to complement everyone here on their excellent taste in tents. Hahahaha ;-)

Congrats on the Nammatj 2 Stephen! Please put up photos when you get it. I've got a Nammatj 3 GT and still find myself missing my Nammatj 2. It was my first tunnel tent and I really didn't give it enough of a chance before returning it. Now that I've used tunnels more, I realize how great a tent I passed up. The size and weight are just phenomenal for so many applications. Don't get me wrong, I love the 3GT, but the Nammatj 2 is much more versatile.

In other news, I used my Soulo for the first time at GGG. The Soulo is a great single person tent for bad weather (which we didn't have any of at GGG). I love the simple set-up and design of it. When Ken checked it out at GGG he said it made him like his Unna even more, and I get what he was saying. The Unna is for sure a larger tent as far as entrance and inside room is concerned. That said, I still like the Soulo better than the Unna I briefly owned. People just seem to fall into either the Unna or Soulo camp, and I'm in the latter.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Nammatj on 02/14/2014 13:35:44 MST Print View

Hi Doug,

I am really looking forward to the Nammatj :-)

I used the Soulo for a couple of trips in Ireland and really liked it but found the
inner a bit too tight for me and ended up getting an Unna instead.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Re: Nammatj on 03/01/2014 18:35:47 MST Print View

Finally got around to pitching the Nammatj in the basement, I will report back when I get a chance to pitch it outside as was too lazy today to go out and dig out a platform as the garden is coved in 2 foot of powder snow.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
platform on 03/01/2014 20:29:07 MST Print View

That's what your skis or snowshoes are for. Stomp down a platform in 15 minutes or less, let it harden and pitch the Nammatj. I know what I think of mine. Share your impressions while it's still winter :-)

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: platform on 03/02/2014 05:26:41 MST Print View

I think my wife would call the men in white coats if she saw me in the garden on skis or snowshoes :-)

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Re: Re: platform on 03/02/2014 13:16:01 MST Print View

My wife's given up on me, but the neighbours have the loony bin on speed dial for when they see me out there.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Re: platform on 03/02/2014 13:25:57 MST Print View

I had to laugh at that :-)

greg c
(spindrifter) - F
deleted on 03/06/2014 11:27:41 MST Print View

deleted

Edited by spindrifter on 03/06/2014 13:35:23 MST.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Nammatj on 03/09/2014 17:01:20 MDT Print View

I had hoped to pitch the Nammatj today, but got caught up clearing ice from the driveway and other household chores. Maybe next weekend, hopefully will get to try out on a trip in 2 weeks.

Eric Parks
(ArtVandelayII)
Re: Re: Nammatj on 04/01/2014 09:44:16 MDT Print View

My significant other was kind enough to give me a Nammatj 2 as a birthday gift last June. From the moment I set it up, I fell in love with it.

A little background info; I typically use a very capable, and really light TarpTent Notch as my normal goto tent, but I wanted something larger for winter weather and for times when weight doesn't matter so much. I really enjoy my TarpTent, and it as fine tent. It can handle pretty much anything I'll ever throw it. However, I have to say that the construction quality of the Hilleberg is just something else all together (as it should be considering price and weight).

This past weekend I camped out in 30-50mph winds, and the Nammatj didn't even flinch. The inner layer of the tent barely moved at all. Considering the conditions, it was as stable of a shelter as I could hope for.

I snow tested it last month, and again, it passed with flying colors. It will sag under a lot of snow, so it's not a tent you can just set up in a heavy snow and leave it unattended for hours. That said, I let snow pile on it for longer than I normally would, just to see how it handled it, nothing broke, and it is just a matter of one tap to the roof and the snow sheds easily.

Finally, whoever had the idea to make the inner layer yellow had a stroke of genius that day. The inside of a Hilleberg is like a reality distortion field. No matter how nasty it is outside, after a few minutes the warm yellow light makes you forget all about it.

Pros:
+Extremely stable in winds
+Very spacious for a two person tent
+Very well made
+Inner layer is never exposed to weather
+Large vestibule
+Haven't seen a single drop of condensation

Cons:
-Door opening is a bit small
-Sags under heavy snow load
-It's a sweat box in warm weather. I wouldn't use this tent in hot weather in the sun.
-Expensive

Fun facts:
Trail weight according to my scale: 88oz.
Set up time: 6 mins.

If interested, I uploaded a gallery of hires pics to imgur:
http://imgur.com/a/bn5st

Edited by ArtVandelayII on 04/01/2014 09:44:59 MDT.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Re: Nammatj on 04/02/2014 12:07:09 MDT Print View

Nice Pics Eric,

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
Soulo & AKTO on 04/02/2014 13:37:22 MDT Print View

Stephen,

Ahhhh, I must respectfully disagree, the Soulo isn't really and "AKTO with cross poles". The Soulo is more of a semi-dome.

But, as I mentioned, the AKTO COULD have X-ing poles inside the fly and make it a winter tent. I say that with confidence because it's big brother (in design) is the Scarp 2, which I have modded in with internal X-ing poles.

Recently we had, yet again, winds with 65 mph gusts and my modded Scarp 2 did very well, with no distortion of the poles in high gusts. (My neighbors must think I'm a few bricks short of a load when I put my Scarp 2 up in the nearby park in high winds.)

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Soulo & AKTO on 04/02/2014 13:50:18 MDT Print View

Thats great Eric it withstood those winds.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Nammatj 2 on 04/02/2014 15:18:43 MDT Print View

Eric - Nice write-up on your Nammatj 2, and great pics.

I wrote earlier in this thread that when I was choosing a Hilleberg, I debated long and hard between the Nammatj and the Kaitum. In the end I chose the Kaitum 3 for its two vestibules, and vertical doors on both ends maximizing interior space. I've used it a number of times as a group shelter and it's been great.

Last year I sold a Soulo, which I found a bit cramped for my needs, but ironically led to a dilemma about what to use for solo winter trips, and shoulder season trips with my young son. The Kaitum 3 seemed overkill, so I started looking at the 2P tents I poured over the brochure and online reviews, and visited Neptune Mountaineering to see what they had on the floor. The Nallo just didn't cut it for me, and the freestanding / self supporting models were far too heavy.

I wound up walking out with a Nammatj 2. I considered the GT vestibule, which would be great for two, but a 24oz disincentive to take it for Solo trips. So I stuck with the regular model. It has far more space than the Nallo 2, thanks to the equal length poles, and having two vents toward the top, I reckoned ventilation would be better too. 3' shorter and 18-20" narrower than the Kaitum 3, it's much easier to stomp out a snow platform or for general site selection purposes. The single vestibule is large enough for two decent sized packs, but there would have been little space left over for my 65lb dog.

I've been out in it twice so far, once solo and once with my son. Both were in snow. The first trip I went for maximum ventilation, unzipped the vents and the inner tent door completely. Zero condensation in just a slight breeze. The second trip my son was with me on his first winter camping trip and temps dropped 10F lower than forecast (to 4F) after a day in a thaw cycle, so I dropped the fabric but kept the mesh in place over the vents and the inner tent door. My son decided he wanted to sleep with his head away from the door. At 5'9" I was also able to sleep that way, without my head brushing the angled foot of the inner tent. However these were all factors on a night with no breeze whatsoever, and by midnight the inner tent was coated in frozen condensation. Every time my son moved we were treated to a hoarfrost shower. Lesson learned: next time I'll open all the vents unless it's blowing hard.

A few things to fine-tune, but I am very happy with the Nammatj 2. The nearly vertical walls and non-sloping roof mean it's comfortable for two adults. Definitely not UL, but perfect for my winter pulk trips and manageable in my 65 litre pack if I have to carry it.

The only annoyance on the trip was discovering how easy it is to bend a Hilleberg snow and sand stake. Deadman style only from now on.

Nammatj

Nammatj 2

Edited by lotuseater on 04/02/2014 16:02:19 MDT.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Nammatj 2 on 04/05/2014 17:09:09 MDT Print View

Finally got around to pitching the Nammatj today, it is really nice and passes "will my wife sleep in it" test.

1
2
3

Edited by stephenm on 04/06/2014 06:20:40 MDT.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Unna on 04/06/2014 06:30:11 MDT Print View

Here are some on the Unna, I have yet to use this in anger as
as have been using the kaitium 3 and Golite sl3 this winter.

1
2
41396787119_102496.jpg" alt="3" width="550" height="413">

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Unna on 04/06/2014 07:41:56 MDT Print View

Mine did not get out of the bag this winter either Stephen. We match.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Unna on 04/06/2014 08:31:02 MDT Print View

Most of my trips lately have been with buddies Ken, so hence
Using the bigger tents. I must start using it.

Edited by stephenm on 04/06/2014 08:32:35 MDT.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Unna / Nammatj on 04/06/2014 11:09:51 MDT Print View

I don't know why the Unna doesn't get as much press as the Akto or the Soulo. It looks to be the most livable of the 1P Hillies.

Here's a few more of my Nammatj in action, and my son's assessment:

Nammatj 2.1

Nammatj 2.2

Nammatj 2.3

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Unna / Nammatj on 04/06/2014 11:17:14 MDT Print View

Nice pictures Stuart :-)

Besides Ken I don't think I know anyone on the US with an Unna, but do know lots of
folk in the Uk who do.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Anjan 3GT on 05/20/2014 17:46:08 MDT Print View

An Anjan 3GT is on route to Chez M as we speak.

If it passes the "Wife likes it test" then it should see some use this summer.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Anjan 3GT big enough to swing a cat on 05/23/2014 17:13:09 MDT Print View

Some pics of the Anjan 3 Gt.

It was pitched hurriedly straight out of the box as rain was looming, so my apologies for the crappy pitch and photos.
Will get some batter ones when I can.

This was purchased specifically for weekend trips with my wife, both in the US and Ireland, she loves our Kaitum 3 but its a pig to carry by myself.


1
2
3
4
5

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Anjan 3GT on 05/30/2014 16:51:39 MDT Print View

I swear my first apartment was smaller than that. It's hard to believe the Soulo is the same weight as this. From the initial complaints about the Anjan, Hilleberg seem to have made some improvements with this model. However I do notice the right side zip is missing from the GT vestibule. Shame - that was a really nice feature on the GT versions of the Nallo and Kaitum.

Looking forward to a.trip report, Stephen.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Anjan 3GT big enough to swing a cat on 05/30/2014 17:25:42 MDT Print View

Hi Stuart,

A phone call to Hilleberg informed me that the
Outer had been lengthened and that the GT version had zipper covers due to the pole sleeves. To be honest I would not of purchased either the first it non GT version.

I am just back from a trip to the Adk so no
chance to test in anger yet but may do so next weekend.

My initial thoughts its a really well thought
out 3season shelter, it was either this or the Tarp Tent CB3.

Brandon Richards
(ZenDragon) - MLife

Locale: Southern Arizona
Expensive? on 05/30/2014 17:29:11 MDT Print View

I don't have a lot of experience with this brand, but I'm curious... So at the risk of sounding somewhat ignorant on the matter I would ask one simple question: What is it about these tents that make them so expensive?

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Expensive? on 05/30/2014 17:32:19 MDT Print View

Its the design, materials, workmanship and customer service.

They actually are very cheap in the US compared to Europe

Brandon Richards
(ZenDragon) - MLife

Locale: Southern Arizona
Re: Re: Expensive? on 05/31/2014 09:03:09 MDT Print View

Can you be a little more specific? Their FAQ pretends to answer this question talking about the "Kerlon" fabric that they use. But it seems to be it has to be more than just that. I understand that they are also hand made, but still, 800 dollars for a 2 person 3 season tent is a lot even for that. Then 1600 for a 4 person 4 season tent?! What else is it about these tents that makes them stand out? They aren't really all that lite, so obviously not aimed at backpackers. I'm not discounting their quality nor am I saying they aren't worth the cost, I just want to understand a little more about the brand from the people that use them (you guys), and not just read more marketing fluff.

Maybe I am answering my own question here... still there are other options with similar functionality and features. The Saitaris for example, a 4 season expedition tents that sleeps four is 1600 dollars. Compare that to say the MH Trango 4, also an expedition tent that sleeps four, looks just as sturdy although doesn't have the cool vestibule of the Hilleberg.

Anyhow, I ask because I am looking to possibly buy something for some winter mountaineering next year, but until now I haven't even considered these. If they are truly worth the extra cost then they might have to get added to the list. That said, I will not be climbing Everest or anything so I may not quite need something so bomb proof.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Re: Re: Re: Expensive? on 05/31/2014 10:25:24 MDT Print View

Hilleberg are a small company whose only product line is their shelters. Sales volumes are small by outdoor gear manufacturer standards.

Although many of their materials are now sourced and possibly pre-cut in South Korea, all assembly work is done in Europe by a single person, from start to finish. That all makes their labour costs considerably higher than an outsourced fab and assembly process in China.

These shelters - especially the Black Series models - are built to withstand the extremes of polar expeditions and are often used as mobile labs for scientific research in those climates. Most of them are seriously overbuilt for casual winter weekend camping trips in the lower 48 states, but if you do buy one, it will last a decade or longer of regular use assuming it's cleaned and stored dry after use. The upfront cost is not insignificant, but in the long term it may be cheaper than buying multiple cheaper shelters that wear out sooner.

As Stephen indicated, Hilleberg prices in the rest of the world are significantly higher than in the US.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Re: Expensive? on 05/31/2014 10:40:32 MDT Print View

Brandon,

Stuart's answer is far more informed than mine would be.

I have used dozens of different tents on European and US mountains
in the last 25 years and Hilleberg are by far the best built and easy to pitch.

I would suggest you order Hillebergs free catalogue to read, and have a feel of the sample material provided, I also highly recommend you call Hilleberg and a Hilleberg dealer for a chat. In fact Charles who posted on this thread is a Hilleberg dealer.

If you get the right Hilleberg for your height and intended use you will not at all be disappointed. If you did order one pitch it in on plastic and use other pegs so you can return it if needs be.

Best of luck with your search.

stephen billings
(stephenb) - MLife

Locale: oregon
Re: Re: Re: Re: Expensive? on 05/31/2014 12:04:02 MDT Print View

Good ?'s Brandon- and understandable to wonder if you have not seen or tried a Hilleberg. They are truly a great tent for serious weather- when people really depend on having a stout safe shelter. And as said above- they are very well built and will last if taken care of properly.

As far as costs and other products go- you can find some that are less made in SE Asia- but in my opinion they are not a Hilleberg. And then there are some higher priced models available from MSR and BA. But IMO- they are not quite a Hilleberg. For example a Big Agnes String Ridge 2 Tent (4 season) tent at REI is $650- which is certainly getting close to Hilleberg pricing. ( A Hilleberg Nallo 2 costs $685, and a Nammatj 2 costs $695).

http://www.rei.com/product/776502/big-agnes-string-ridge-2-tent

And for comparably priced high end UL gear- check out these prices from HMG ( and there is not much there in materials, and certainly in the way of material costs:

There UltaMids 2 and 4 are priced at $675 and $825 respectively. I know they are well thought of- but you certainly would not be able to say that they are inexpensive.

http://www.hyperlitemountaingear.com/hiking-climbing-shelters/mids.html

So... it is good we have so many shelters to pick from now days. And that is a very good thing. There are probably more shelters available today than there ever has been.

Edited by stephenb on 05/31/2014 12:05:29 MDT.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Expensive? on 05/31/2014 12:06:06 MDT Print View

Well put Stephen :-)

Aaron Croft
(aaronufl) - M

Locale: Oregon
To keep this going... on 05/31/2014 14:30:28 MDT Print View

My Hillberg Anjan 2 at Sanctuary River in Denali National Park.

Tent2

Edited by aaronufl on 05/31/2014 14:37:47 MDT.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: To keep this going... on 05/31/2014 14:35:24 MDT Print View

Nice one Aaron,

Are you using it solo?

I was pleasantly surprised by the Anjan 3GT, as mentioned above I got it for trips with my wife or a buddy.

After speaking with Hilleberg they confirmed the outer had been lowered a bit since it release. Also another interesting note is the outer door zip on the GT version is fully covered by the pole sleeve.

Aaron Croft
(aaronufl) - M

Locale: Oregon
Re: on 05/31/2014 14:42:20 MDT Print View

Thanks Stephen.

It is generally used as a two person shelter for my girlfriend and I, but I decided to use it during this bikepacking trip because of rain in the forecast. That, and I just love the tent. Quite a large amount of space, the yellow inner is pretty cheery on cloudy days, and it fits in my handlebar bag.

We generally take all our trips together, so it will be a tossup as to whether we use the Anjan or our supermid. I can see using the supermid for all backpacking trips (when we are using trekking poles) and the anjan for when we're biking.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Anjan on 05/31/2014 14:53:59 MDT Print View

Thats interesting you are using it for 2 wheeled trips, if you to do any bike repairs in the rain you
could pitch the outer by itself.

I am looking forward to trying it out next week as we were away in the ADK all week
and did not bring it with us.

Is this your first Hilleberg Aaron?

Brandon Richards
(ZenDragon) - MLife

Locale: Southern Arizona
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Expensive? on 06/01/2014 08:22:22 MDT Print View

@stephen billings Thanks for the informative response. Yea I totally understand the cost of those Cuben fiber shelters, given the relative exclusivity of the material. I can imagine if you had a full tent like one of the hillebergs built out of that stuff it would cost a small fortune. And, Looking at that Big Agnes tent I could also see the comparative structural advantages, at least of at least the Hilleberg Tara (black label) for an extra $300 dollars. However, structurally speaking, I would question the Nammatj line under heavy snow loads. Reading through this post it seems others have had sagging issues with that tent.

Anyhow, I don't mean to hijack this thread with gear questions, was just hoping to understand the brand a little better. Having multiple options is most definitely a good thing!

Edited by ZenDragon on 06/01/2014 08:23:24 MDT.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Expensive? on 06/01/2014 08:53:31 MDT Print View

Questions are good Brandon :-)

If you get a chance to visit a Hilleberg dealer
you should check them out.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Tunnel tent tutorial / SOTM on 06/01/2014 10:26:36 MDT Print View

Take a look at Roger Caffin's series on tunnel tents. He does a better job than any of us describing the pros and cons:

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/tunnel_tents_part1.html

Brandon Richards
(ZenDragon) - MLife

Locale: Southern Arizona
Re: Tunnel tent tutorial / SOTM on 06/02/2014 18:29:58 MDT Print View

Awesome article! After reading that, and watching some of the videos of those Hillebergs on Youtube I'm pretty much sold hahaha! 85MPH winds!!! WOW!

Eric Osburn
(osb40000) - MLife
Re: Re: Tunnel tent tutorial / SOTM on 06/03/2014 10:30:15 MDT Print View

I've had my Kaitum 3 in 55mph+ winds and it was rock solid. Very impressive tents.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Re: Tunnel tent tutorial / SOTM on 06/03/2014 15:37:14 MDT Print View

The Kaitum 3 is by far my all time favourite tent.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Anjan Venting on 06/05/2014 08:24:26 MDT Print View

Aaron,

Any issues at all with the lack of vents on the Anjan?

I was hoping to try mine this weekend but the two other going had to bail out.

. Ellobuddha
(EllobuddhaBPL)
First Snow Australia - Kozi on 06/09/2014 20:39:35 MDT Print View

Finally starting to get a little bit.

. Ellobuddha
(EllobuddhaBPL)
And again on 06/09/2014 20:41:29 MDT Print View

Wilkinsons Creek

..

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: And again on 06/10/2014 07:19:53 MDT Print View

Very nice,

Is that a Jannu and Nammatj GT?

I am surprised how much the Jannu looks likean Unna from the back.

. Ellobuddha
(EllobuddhaBPL)
Aussie Hillebergs on 06/10/2014 16:58:10 MDT Print View

Yep a Jannu and a Nammatj 2 GT. The Jannu is mine and the Nammatj is my friends - it was his maiden trip out with it. Its a really nice tent and roomy. It was a lot noisier than the Jannu in the wind though. However I think that was some pitching issues as well. The Jannu is just bombproof.

Edited by EllobuddhaBPL on 06/10/2014 17:01:24 MDT.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Aussie Hillebergs on 06/10/2014 20:21:22 MDT Print View

The Nammatj does look like its a bit crooked, but not by much.

Were you able to measure the wind speed at all?

Roger Caffin
(rcaffin) - BPL Staff - MLife

Locale: Wollemi & Kosciusko NPs, Europe
Re: First Snow Australia - Kozi on 06/11/2014 03:40:37 MDT Print View

A dusting of snow by mid-June? Not promising!
We have camped many times in the Wilkinson Creek bowl - with lots of snow. Many years ago...

Cheers

Chris Wiewiora
(Crispy_Scapes) - M
First Snow Australia - Kozi on 06/11/2014 08:22:55 MDT Print View

Snow cover isn't looking good :( I have an eight day tele trip in KNP planned for mid July :\

On a more positive note, my Hilleberg Nammatj 2 arrived today.

Swedish Tomato

Edited by Crispy_Scapes on 06/11/2014 08:24:06 MDT.

KEN LARSON
(KENLARSON) - MLife

Locale: Western Michigan
Hilleberg Tent thread on 06/11/2014 09:42:40 MDT Print View

I'm curious the "KIND" of footprint material you owners use with the Hilleberg tents OR do you forget them since the floor material is a bit more "bomb proof" to that other BP tents......... and it increases the weight of your shelter component?

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Hilleberg Tent thread on 06/11/2014 09:57:44 MDT Print View

I only ever use mine when car camping or with a pulk.

. Ellobuddha
(EllobuddhaBPL)
Re: Re: Aussie Hillebergs on 06/13/2014 09:35:05 MDT Print View

It wasnt very windy at all. Less than 20knots.

As far as footprint goes. I have the Hille footprint but rarely use it due to weight unless I know there will be really poor ground. I generally dont bother with one or I will use a Zpacks cuben floor. Its way to big for the Jannu vestibule but I can fold it up as required.

I think Kozi should get a decent dump tomorrow hopefully. Planning on getting back up there next weekend.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Must Watch Video from Hilleberg for pitching in Crazy winds on 06/17/2014 19:06:49 MDT Print View

Folks,

Just came across this video.

I highly recommend watching it.


http://youtu.be/3eFAyKMz314

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
improved AKTO-like tents on 06/18/2014 18:41:20 MDT Print View

Just placing crossing poles inside the AKTO and ENAN may help them become "improved" for winter snow loads or wind loading at any time.

Edited by Danepacker on 01/06/2015 14:51:52 MST.

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Hilleberg Tent thread on 07/09/2014 07:43:06 MDT Print View

Hilleberg introduces a new model today. Looks like a Tarptent Moment. Eric will be thrilled.

It's named the Enan. More specs to be revealed at the Outdoor Show in Germany that starts tomorrow.


enan

Woubeir (from Europe)
(Woubeir) - F - MLife
Re: Re: Hilleberg Tent thread on 07/09/2014 07:53:51 MDT Print View

Or: this flyer

Edited by Woubeir on 07/09/2014 07:55:37 MDT.

greg c
(spindrifter) - F
Looks very nice on 07/09/2014 09:27:55 MDT Print View

This is exciting. It appears that the fly goes down to ground level which extends the tent application for wind blown dust and spindrift. I wonder how the 10D fabric compares to the Moment DW 30D fabric. Also, interesting to see if Hilleberg stuck with fairly burly zippers. My one concern with the Moment is the seemingly fragile zipper system. In the Moment's favor is the easier pitch based on a total of 4 stakes versus 6 to 8 for the new Hilleberg. Can't wait to see the first reviews.

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Re: Re: Hilleberg Tent thread on 07/09/2014 09:40:29 MDT Print View

God bless Henry for pushing the envelope and thus pushing the large manufacturers.

Eric Osburn
(osb40000) - MLife
Loosing weight on 07/31/2014 11:02:34 MDT Print View

I've got a kaitum 3 that I love and the only thing I dislike about it is the weight. How much weight do you think I could drop off it if I went with lighter guy lines and tensioners like those from zpacks?

http://zpacks.com/accessories/spectra_cord.shtml

Ideas? Is it worth my time and money? Should I just man up and haul her around?

Ian B.
(IDBLOOM) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Will Enan get 'er done for a tall hiker? on 07/31/2014 11:31:18 MDT Print View

Their specs on the Akto and now the Enan concern me. The Akto is advertised to be 87" long which should accommodate me at 6'3" but from everything I've read, not to even try and stick with the Unna. While I didn't crawl inside it, I saw one at the GGG and wrote it off as too short.

The Enan, advertised "WE MODELED THE NEW ENAN after our awardwinning,best-selling Akto" is advertised at 84.7" and 13" tall at the ends. Again, a true 84" length with 13" minimum height *should* work but I remain skeptical. Hopefully Feathered Friends store in Seattle will eventually display one in their store as I'd be interested to check it out. TT Moment remains on the short-list though.

Edit just pondering out loud as I realize no one here has had their hands on one.

Edited by IDBLOOM on 07/31/2014 11:39:22 MDT.

greg c
(spindrifter) - F
In Response to Eric's Question..... on 07/31/2014 11:39:10 MDT Print View

Hi Eric,

I put my Hilleberg Soulo on a diet earlier this year and below were the results Iposted to a different thread on BPL. I think it could be worth your time if you view 9-10 ounces as significant. Just depends on one's view of what matters in a backcountry setting. Hope it helps.

"I finally got around to modifying my Soulo in hopes of excising a bit of weight. It started out packed at 5 lbs. 3 OZ. It now is right around 4 lbs. 10 oz. To achieve this I removed all of the steel zipper pulls and replaced them with 1mm cord pulls. That saved 1.4 oz. I then replaced all of the guylines and line locs with 2mm cord and taughtline hitches. There was 84 feet of 3mm cord and this saved a net of ~2.33 oz. I then replaced the 12 stakes with 10 MSR carbon core stake's I got a good deal on (I decided that the 2 stakes at the crossing pole were unnecessary). This saved around 2.8 oz. I then weighed the tent stuff sack, pole stuff sack, and stake stuff sack which was in excess of 2.7 oz. I replaced them with a cuben tent stuff sack and a cuben pole sack. This was a net savings of 2.1 oz.

So, in total I shaved off almost 9 oz. My tent still is portly, but I feel better about hauling the red demon out for mountaineering trips when high wind is likely.

Also, I've come to realize that the soulo is ~ 10-12 degrees warmer inside than the ambient temperature and sometimes this difference allows me to take my 30 degree bag over my 15 degree thus saving another 12 oz.

Anyhow, just wanted to share my numbers. At a minimum, removing the noisy zipper pulls is an easy mod and provides a bit of weight relief. I love the tent and now I am more inclined to bring it when conditions are iffy."

Edited by spindrifter on 07/31/2014 11:40:22 MDT.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
Oz. = Lbs. on 07/31/2014 14:27:37 MDT Print View

Greg, I'll look at lots of those weight savings you did with my Scarp 2 and Moment DW. Definitely the metal zipper pulls, even though TT's pulls are small,
And the MSR carbon core stakes may be less than my MSR Ground Hogs. My guy lines are Triptease with small plastic tent-end hooks and small Line-Loc adjustors. I'd use tautline hitches but in winter they often freeze.

I did save weight by moving my Scarp's X-ing poles inside B/C they had to be shortened. But I gained a bit when I ordered a heavier duty main sleeve pole from Tentpole Technologies. That's a "winter" pole only. Overall my tent weight went down by 4 oz. even with the heavier main pole.

BTW Ken, I AM thrilled that Hilleberg came around to the Tarptent style of triangular ends as in the Moment. Makes more sense for fast setup and wind shedding. Plus I hope Hilleberg included end venting as Tarptent has.

Edited by Danepacker on 08/02/2014 20:30:53 MDT.

E J
(mountainwalker) - MLife

Locale: SF Bay Area & New England
Enan Re: Re: Hilleberg Tent thread on 07/31/2014 22:08:11 MDT Print View

Thanks for posting the Enan - looks like a nice tent. Eric and others about how light do you think it could be made applying the same weights-shaving Hilleberg mods which have been discussed here?

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Anjan 3GT Maiden Voyage on 08/16/2014 16:05:43 MDT Print View

Just back from a quick overnight with the Anjan 3GT.

It was my first time using a GT model and I was blown away by the porch space, so much so in fact
I am thinking of changing our Kaitum 3 for a GT version.

When I get a chance I will post a proper review, but lets just say it l am very happy with it.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
Enan specs... on 08/17/2014 18:24:21 MDT Print View

Hey Ken,

Please post the specs for the new Enan. I'm "all-a-twitter" about this tent, to quote Dirty Harry.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Enan specs... on 08/17/2014 18:37:32 MDT Print View

Hi Eric,

I think a lot of folk will be interested in the Enan.

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Enan specs... on 08/17/2014 18:45:03 MDT Print View

Hilleberg specs link

Edited by kthompson on 08/17/2014 18:45:41 MDT.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
r.e. Enan specs... on 08/17/2014 20:26:01 MDT Print View

Thanks Ken,

Hilleberg says it's for "... your snow-free adventures." I think it can work in snow too.

Nice relatively (compared to Akto) light weight.

Now to put a X-ing pole inside the fly for snow camping... ;o)

Edited by Danepacker on 01/06/2015 14:49:56 MST.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: r.e. Enan specs... on 08/21/2014 20:41:29 MDT Print View

I was speaking to Hilleberg a few days ago with a question on my Anjan and they mentioned the Enan is due out in March\April, I was told it will have the same footprint as the Atko.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
Enan & Akto W/same footprint?? on 08/22/2014 17:40:55 MDT Print View

The Akto is much wider at each end than the Enan. How could the footprints be the same?

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Enan & Akto W/same footprint?? on 08/22/2014 17:41:45 MDT Print View

That's what Shannon at Hilleberg said to me the other day.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Enan & Akto W/same footprint?? on 08/22/2014 17:48:38 MDT Print View

I would be interested in it if it was the same size as the Atko, any smaller and I would not be so sure.

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Jannu on 08/23/2014 01:33:58 MDT Print View

It's fun to see this thread continuing. My newest addition to my addiction (see what I did there? :-D ) is a Jannu. I actually motorcycle camped last night and took my trusty Tarra, and took some REALLY fun night photos with it all lit up. Only to promptly delete them on accident when I was downloading the photos to my computer. :(

I'll have both the Tarra and Jannu with me at a SAR training the first week of September, and then the Jannu will likely come as my solo backpacking trip in the Sierra the following week. Talk about overkill...hehe but still fun.

Here is my new Jannu on her maiden voyage, a motorcycle trip a few weeks ago in Oregon. I've got to say, I REALLY like the "sand" color. It's really more of a nice bronze color. I find it much cheerier than the green Hillebergs I've had and not as in your face as the reds:

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Jannu on 08/23/2014 07:40:20 MDT Print View

Hi Doug,

Thats a beast of a tent for solo trips.

Cheers,

Stephen

Edited by stephenm on 08/23/2014 07:51:06 MDT.

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Re: Re: Jannu on 08/23/2014 11:55:17 MDT Print View

Howdy Stephen, it sure is hahaha.

I'm trying very hard not to convince myself that I "need" a sand colored Unna. I tried the Unna briefly before replacing it with the Soulo. The truth is, for a solo person, I think I agree with Ken, who likes the Unna better. You actually get more living space (though a smaller vestibule), and simpler design and lighter weight. It just makes more sense for backpacking. Now that said, the Soulo does look way cooler (haha sorry Unna fans).

But alas, I don't think I'll have the funds together before my trip, so the Jannu will be joining me as the overkill machine. ;-)

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Re: Jannu on 08/23/2014 12:29:24 MDT Print View

Hi Doug,

I think I mentions far back in the thread I swapped out my Soulo
for an Unna, even though I have it a year I have not used it yet
as all my winter trips I used either the Kaitum 3 or Golite Sl3.
My buddies own crap tents so we always end up using mine.

The Unna really deserves a few trips this winter.


Cheers,

Stephen

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Anjan 2 solo on 08/23/2014 13:17:09 MDT Print View

Has anyone used the Anjan 2 solo?

Brian Reyman
(breyman) - M

Locale: Rocky Mountains
Re: Anjan 2 solo on 08/26/2014 15:00:57 MDT Print View

I often use the Anjan 2 for solo trips. It's certainly heavier than many other options, but I reduced my kit some and kept that as it works for solo and when I go with my wife. It's the typical story as with most 2 man tents - works for two people that are cozy - is a palace for 1.

It's the second lightest tent in Hilleberg's lineup - Akto is just a bit lighter, but the Anjan is MUCH roomier with more interior, more height (in the right places - like the head end) and in the vestibule.

Now, the Enan does look very tempting as the decreased space may be worth a 1.5 pound drop in weight from the Anjan.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Anjan 2 solo on 08/26/2014 15:13:44 MDT Print View

Hi Brian,

Thanks for the reply.

I am also interested in the Enan, I will probaly
hold off a while until it gets some testing from Bpl folk.

My days of early adoption are well over.

Mike Oxford
(moxford) - MLife

Locale: Silicon Valley, CA
Re: Jannu on 09/02/2014 21:33:47 MDT Print View

Those are going to be way heavy for SAR work in Central California, unless you're OES Type-1 AND deployed MA into a multi-day in the Sierras at high elevation in winter ... and even then it's iffy. =)

Most SAR op-periods are 8 hours and then you're back at the CP. Being out overnight is a rarity to begin with. You're going to want to move fast and light. Your (very rare) overnights will be accidental and those tents are a ton of weight to be humping every day "just in case." Type-1 will get you more overnights but in much tougher terrain and with more exertion. Again, fast and light - bivvies/tarps mostly. I humped an SL3 (fly-only) on our last one, (we shoved three people into it (and I'm 6'6" ... =) but that's a rarity.

Hope to see you in the field! =)

-Mike
Santa Clara County SAR

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Re: Re: Jannu on 09/03/2014 00:12:43 MDT Print View

Hi Mike, it's a small world. I've probably run into you on mutual aid calls over the years. I've been on Santa Cruz SO SAR for the past 16 years (13 of which have been as a Deputy), and a patrol K9 handler for the past 4 years. :)

I totally agree about the Hille's being overkill for SAR missions, I like them in a base camp role, such as at SAREX this coming weekend. I like their longevity, but agree that they are a lot of tent for our local conditions. The primary reasons I'm bringing them to SAREX is that they are fun, and they are also the only tents I own. Hahaha...sort of reduces the options.

Swing by the green and tan Hillebergs at SAREX this weekend in Napa and say, "Hi". :-D

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Anjan 2 specs on 09/06/2014 09:29:44 MDT Print View

I was asked on another thread to post the specs of the Anjan 2.


Tent in Bag 1799g(with tags removed)
Tent bag 37g
Pegs 100g
Peg bag 8g
Poles. 318g
Pole bag with spare pole 50g
Inner 612g
Outer 676g

Poles 17 inch long.

Packed size 21 by 8.

Jonathan Hanson
(JonathanHanson) - M
Staika and Soulo on 09/06/2014 12:06:22 MDT Print View

I own two Hilleberg tents, a Staika and a Soulo (although the Soulo is probably going away—too many tents), and I've reviewed several more for various magazines. I've found them to be right at the pinnacle of modern tent design and construction. In particular their silicone-impregnated fly material is hugely superior to polyurethane-coated flies, and justifies much of the extra cost.

I had the Soulo pitched on a ledge on the North Rim of Marble Canyon a couple of years ago, during a really weird windstorm that kept changing directions every few minutes. The Soulo was rock-solid no matter which way it was being pummelled. The extra guylines can sometimes be annoyingly in the way when pitching, but it's sure nice to have them.Soulo on North Rim

Edited by JonathanHanson on 09/06/2014 13:06:50 MDT.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Nammatjs replacement. on 09/06/2014 20:13:23 MDT Print View

The Nammatjs replacement arrived today. It will be mainly for winter trips when a crap load of snow is forecast or above treeline and canoe camping.

1

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Re: Nammatjs replacement. on 09/07/2014 11:28:20 MDT Print View

Congrats on the Tarra Stephen, you're going to love it! One of my buddies is using mine as I type this. Its a phenomenal tent.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Nammatjs replacement. on 09/07/2014 11:32:13 MDT Print View

Cheers Doug,

Roll on winter.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
ENAN owners?? on 09/07/2014 19:52:22 MDT Print View

Does anyone here on BPL actually OWN an ENAN? I'd love to see photos when this happens.

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: ENAN owners?? on 09/07/2014 19:58:20 MDT Print View

Comes out next season.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
Next SEASON? Aaaarrrgggghhh! on 09/07/2014 20:19:19 MDT Print View

Well, when the ENAN does come out I'd love to see a photo of it side-by-side with a Moment DW.

Footprint and vestibule comparisons whould be nice too.

How about wind tunnel testing with a smoke wand?

And maybe a snow load test (W/ X-ing pole on the Moment DW ;o)

Or a "hikers-with-benefits" test?

Charles Jennings
(vigilguy) - F - M

Locale: Northern Utah
Enan expected next April on 09/07/2014 21:30:58 MDT Print View

I tested one for a couple of nights. Lightweight for a Hilleberg. Quick and easy to setup. Photos available at the Hilleberg .se site. This tent is a spin-off from their Akto design, which they produced after 16 prototypes in 1995.
Disclosure - I am a Hilleberg Retailer.

peter vacco
(fluff@inreach.com)

Locale: no. california
looking at enan, and not liking part of it. on 09/20/2014 10:06:14 MDT Print View

so: peter runs an akto and has done to the point of actually wearing one out. fine .. i bought another. no problem there. i love it.

i thought i was falling for the new enan, and considered that perhaps i'd like to get one for stateside romps. then i got to look'n Hard at their End Pole configuration ... not liking what i see as regards the Single end pole design.
you look enough at enan and then you tell me just exactly WHAT hold the corners in place . i appears that there is but a single supporting pole at each end, and that one needs to stake ALL FOUR CORNERS, every night, just to keep the silly thing up. so it's not a nice situation where in calm conditions one could skate by with only two anchors .. but oh dear no, it takes the full SIX of them.
and that's just Wrong.
if what i am seeing is really the way it exists, then it is improperly designed. (in less you are camping on a lawn that holds stakes perfectly ... like a golf course).

whatever advantages they gained with the single pole, are lost in the requirement of FOUR additional anchors. as well as a loss in a twin pole tents ability to deal with disoptimal site flatness, allow cross rigging to exploit two anchors splayed at each end in stout winds, and the total inability to deal with using rocks as anchors while still retaining tension in the fly.

i thought enan was going to knock henry's moment dw right out of the park. but, if i am seeing right, he's still sitting pretty, right on top of the heap.

maybe i'm wrong. i suspect it has happened before.

i think i will write to petra about this.
v.

Charles Jennings
(vigilguy) - F - M

Locale: Northern Utah
Enan on 09/20/2014 12:00:49 MDT Print View

The Enan requires less stakes than the Akto, and you like the Akto?

Having tested an Enan, I had no issues with setting it up quickly. In fact I didn't have to fuss with it like I do the Akto.

Yes you should contact Petra. Good idea.

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Jannu on 09/20/2014 13:01:53 MDT Print View

My home away from home at Minaret Lake, the Jannu:

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
ENAN end stakeout on 09/20/2014 16:09:36 MDT Print View

Peter,

The ENAN's end stakeout does present a problem. I doubt if they could use Tarptent's patented design with the Moment's 2captive CF rods at each end. TT's Moment design is genius.

Just one more reason to buy a TT Moment DW.

peter vacco
(fluff@inreach.com)

Locale: no. california
Re: ENAN end stakeout on 09/21/2014 10:31:39 MDT Print View

" The Enan requires less stakes than the Akto, and you like the Akto?"

yes well... on the surface akto does appear like it takes a boatload of them. but ! in one is clever, one can combine the end ones into ... ohhh phooy, hold on... i'll go find a picture of it.
the orig way akto came rigged was so silly, that i literally modified it as i was setting it up the very first time.
i grant you that, yes, if you follow the directions, it's frikk'n ridiculous.
bottom line is that unless it is quite windy, akto needs only four. and they are not at all picky as to position or elevation.
much wind will want six, and there's another level above that which is not really what bpl is about, but suffice it that one splays dual side lines and tri-rigs those corner lines to use the end-center hard points.
so, as far was we are concerned, any normal condition = four anchors.
so.. yeah, i love my little akto. that dear thing has NEVER let me down.
(know that the farther north you go, quite literally, the better akto works. it is uncanny. just the same with such as Bultaco trials bike, they are Wet Soggy Cow in a parking lot, but magic up on the rocks)

the akto and my McHale pack are alike in regards to looking quite the unsophisticated slob of a kit. but then, once you take them where they were meant to be, and they come alive with virtue. (much like the Lincoln Electric LN-8 series of wire feeders)
their elegance of design is in how they work, not how they look.

-----
" I doubt if they could use Tarptent's patented design with the Moment's 2captive CF rods at each end. "

ahh ! well , that explains it.
how somebody could patent a bipod remains a mystery to me, but good for Henry ! he got there first.akto in the arctic
---
you can see the combined functions of upper and lower corner anchor in the lines. what is not shown is the overhand-knot and loop which is looped around a small rock that is held securely under those Very Nice anchor stones. that knot/loop feature keeps any slack from transferring from top-to-bottom as things flap in the night.
note : considering where that picture was taken, and what can happen at night, those anchors are not excessive.

Edited by fluff@inreach.com on 09/21/2014 10:41:44 MDT.

Charles Jennings
(vigilguy) - F - M

Locale: Northern Utah
Enan on 09/22/2014 15:20:29 MDT Print View

@Peter- it is obvious that you have a strong personal opinion of the Enan design. I do not share your concerns, as I like the design features of the Enan, personally.

My suggestion would be, if you don't like it...don't buy one.

Field testers are currently using the Enan prototype in some pretty adverse conditions, and they love it. It is, however, only meant to be a 3 season backpacking tent.

The Enan has fared quite well in Hilleberg's wind machine.

If you have a chance next Spring to see one in person, I would suggest that. I know that my opinions change once I examine a piece of gear in person, rather than assessing it on my computer screen.

Edited by vigilguy on 09/22/2014 15:22:05 MDT.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Customer Service on 09/29/2014 22:27:37 MDT Print View

with Hilleberg USA is second to none. There are only a handful of employees, but each time I've called they have taken the time to answer my questions and talk through alternatives. I'm never rushed off the phone. They genuinely love the brand, and if one person cannot answer a specific question, they find the right person who can and does. Sometimes that's Petra.

This summer I had a concern about how an inner tent fit in my two year old Kaitum 3. I emailed some photos, explained how I pitched it, and could they advise me if I was doing something wrong? They confirmed it looked too tight, causing loss of usable space inside, and shipped me a warranty replacement at no charge. And when that fit the same way as the original they offered to swap the outer tent, or allow me to exchange the (used) tent for a different model altogether if I wished. Yet I'm sure the product was built to their specs and it's just not as wide as I expected based on the floorplan diagram in the catalog and on the website. They want to make sure I have the right tent for my needs, and they are updating the measurements in the 2015 catalog.

You may pay a premium for Hilleberg, but they back up their product line. And not just for 90 days or a year or a nominal warranty period. I'm seriously impressed.

Fausto Momoli
(fmomoli) - M

Locale: New York
Regular and GT Fly for the Nammatj? on 10/15/2014 11:18:13 MDT Print View

Hi All,

Right now I have 2 Hilleberg tents, the Nammatj 3 and the Allak. Although the Allak has seen more use I've just put it up for sale since my wife strongly prefers the Nammatj.

I will use the proceeds from the Allak sale to buy a hammock for when I am solo (probably an Exped Ergo if I find one), and the thought of having 2 different fly's for the Nammatj occurred to me, giving the flexibility of a bigger vestibule when I need it or when I am not so worried about weight (car or motorcycle camping).

Sorry if this is a stupid question, but I've just read the 15 pages of this thread and nobody ever mentioned anything like this. The cost might be too high, or Hilleberg might not do it, but I thought I would check you guys first if this makes sense.

Thanks!

Christian Edstrom
(bjorn240) - F

Locale: Westchester County, NY
Hilleberg Lego on 10/15/2014 13:27:49 MDT Print View

You mean like you'd have two tents - a Nammatj 3 and a Nammatj 3GT, but only one inner tent? That could work, but I'm not sure Hilleberg will sell you just an outer.

Now that I think about it, you could buy a Nammatj 3GT with a mesh inner, and then you could mix-and-match to your heart's content.

Short answer - yeah, it'll definitely work. The inner tent between a GT model and a standard model Nammatj are the same.

Edited by bjorn240 on 10/15/2014 13:28:48 MDT.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Two flies, one inner on 10/15/2014 19:02:14 MDT Print View

I had a similar thought about getting a Keron fly to give me more options when I don't need the extra space of my GT. Dealers won't be able to help you with this, but Hilleberg USA might. It depends on what they have in inventory. I asked, but none were available, so we didn't get to a discussion about price. Let us know what you hear back.

Fausto Momoli
(fmomoli) - M

Locale: New York
Re: Two flies, one inner on 10/16/2014 06:45:16 MDT Print View

Stuart,

They said the same thing to me.. they will sell the outer only if and when they have one available. They put me on a "backordered" list.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Nammatj gets the locals interested on 10/20/2014 21:18:31 MDT Print View

Here are a couple of pics of a campsite visitor when out in the Colorado High Country about a month ago. Since before his fourth birthday my son has been clambering up and down steep trails, so we call him the mountain goat. He got to meet a real one up close and personal this trip. What a magnificent animal, it hung out at our campsite munching on breakfast for over 1/2 hour.

Mtngoat4

Mtngoat3

Mtngoat1

Mtngoat2

Edited by lotuseater on 10/23/2014 09:22:56 MDT.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
Thread longevity! on 10/22/2014 22:16:10 MDT Print View

This thread NEVER dies! Whycome?

Stuart, Great photos and story. Your "mountain goat" son will never forget that day.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Re: Thread longevity! on 10/23/2014 09:35:10 MDT Print View

Thanks, Eric. I just added a couple more pics of the mountain goat (the real one, not my son) around the site. My son had just gone out to pee, and as he came back in I saw a white blur run past the foot end vent of my Nammatj. The goat may well have been there long before we got up, but it showed no fear and let me approach it a few times. These pics are from a fixed 28mm equivalent lens, so you can see I was really close at times. Mostly it stayed 10-15' away, but it took great interest in my backpack as we were breaking camp, and I was almost able to reach out and touch it. Those horns made me decide otherwise, though. What a beautiful creature. My son was curious yet a little fearful, so he wisely kept me or the tent in between himself and the goat.

As for the thread that never dies, well I guess there are enough of us that are enthusiastic Hillie owners that we like to keep spreading the word. And as temps start to get cooler, we may well see an uptick in postings here. Just this week I've been PM'd twice by folks interested in different models, asking my recommendations.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Customer service part 2, and material changes on 10/29/2014 22:03:26 MDT Print View

A few weeks ago I wrote about Hilleberg USA's customer service. Last week they came through for me in a big way. I bought the Kaitum 3 based on the dimensions listed in the catalogue, but it turned out that the taper from the maximum width in the centre to the doors was so significant that three adults would fit, but only if the outer two had the inner tent draping over their sleeping bags. Hilleberg sent me a replacement inner, in case there were manufacturing flaws in mine. There were none - the two fit identically. Long story short, they very graciously agreed to swap out my Kaitum 3 for another tent, for any difference in current retail price and a nominal cleaning fee. I spent some time on the phone with them discussing options, and am now the very happy owner of a Keron 3. On paper the inner tent's square footage is smaller, but in reality the inner tent walls are taut and three adults fit in there with ease on 20" wide pads. Kudos to Petra for empowering her employees to make sure that customers are satisfied, and many thanks to both Shannon and Stuart for working through the options with me.

During this process, I had a chance to look at a few models at Neptune Mountaineering, and I noticed a couple of changes that might be of interest. These may only apply to the Black Series (Kerlon 1800) tents, I'm not sure, so take it for what it's worth. Firstly, the Y pegs have changed in very much the same way that MSR Groundhogs changed a year or two ago. The formerly straight blades are now curved. Weight difference is minimal - on my scales we're talking 1.5g per peg (the new pegs are ~13.5g; the old were ~15g). Old model on top, new model below:

Hilleberg Y peg

Secondly, and perhaps more significantly for some, the colour of the green outer tent has darkened significantly. What used to be best described as a Hunter Green is now a deep Olive Green. In artificial lighting it almost looks black. My initial reaction is that, in many settings, the new shade is stealthier. My Keron 3 appears to be from an older production run, as it is Hunter Green. A friend's Nammatj 3GT that he brought over to compare today, is Olive Green. I'm not sure whether the photo of the pole bag does it justice, but you can see a distinct difference in colour. As before, old colour on top, new colour below:

Hilleberg outer tent colour

Once pitched, the outer tent stops looking black and the deep olive becomes dominant. I haven't seen it in direct sunlight yet, but this should give an idea:

N3GT

Edited by lotuseater on 10/29/2014 22:08:14 MDT.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Sand on 12/04/2014 17:14:39 MST Print View

Looking back over this thread today, I notice how different Doug's two sand flysheets look. The Nammatj 2 looks mustard coloured, and frankly a little anaemic. The Jannu looks more bronze - a big improvement IMO.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
Back to the ENAN (and the TT Scarp 1) on 12/05/2014 18:54:05 MST Print View

As one who belongs to the "Tarptent Persuasion" (OK, religion) I like the ENAN's room but like the Moment DW's ability to use a crossing pole even more.

Whether one uses the Moment DWs' original EXTERIOR X-ing pole or my easy interior X-ing pole mod you still get better wind and snow load resistance than with the ENAN. For me that is the deal breaker with the ENAN. Of course you could do two X-ing poles like a Scarp 1 (after sewing on 8 straps) but then why not just buy the Scarp 1??

To me the ENAN's closest design and quality competitor is the Tarptent Scarp 1.

Ryan ALLISON
(ryan.allison) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Just sharing some thoughts.... on 12/12/2014 14:56:31 MST Print View

I decide to go with NAMMATJ 3 (non GT) for the extra vent, a little more headroom, etc.

Edited by ryan.allison on 12/14/2014 11:39:35 MST.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Nammatj vs Nallo on 12/15/2014 22:10:40 MST Print View

Ryan - The Nammatj is a significant step up from the Nallo, one that not many on BPL are willing to make due to the extra oz. I think you made a sound long term decision. It's truly 4 season worthy, offers better ventilation and bug protection, and has more headroom inside. But it is a leap that most first-time Hillie buyers aren't willing to make due to price, weight or other spec reasons. I've tried many different Hillie models the last four years, and this year came to the conclusion that the Black Series tents were the ones to own for the long term. I upgraded from a Kaitum 3 to a Keron 3 for 3P, and I sold my Nammatj 2 in favour of the Nammatj 2GT for 2P + pulk. Hilleberg's range is huge, and many models overlap so the decision is hard. You have chosen a supremely comfortable winter shelter for 2P + one oversized pooch.

Ryan ALLISON
(ryan.allison) - MLife

Locale: PNW
I can't decide... on 12/15/2014 23:17:50 MST Print View

The vender has yet to refund/credit me for the Nallo 2... which has left me here at my home over-analyzing shelters (story of my life). I like the idea of the Nammatj 3 for 2P and a dog. I just keep seeing that Unna... and she looks so sexy to me. She just glances my way and I get weak in the knees. Everything about it seems to make sense to me. I have a feeling it would get way more use year-round, because the reality is, it's just me and my dog. I'm not sure what the hell I'll end up with. It will either be an Nammatj or an Unna.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Re: I can't decide... on 12/15/2014 23:37:30 MST Print View

IMO, Hillie's 1P models are really heavy vs the competitors. Although I have yet to see an Unna in the flesh, so I'm talking based on experience with the Akto and Soulo. I understand your dilemma, but I think the Unna is small for you and your pooch. If it's 1P + big dog, for winter use only, then the Nammatj 2 is brilliant, with pooch inside. If it's three season use then look at the Anjan 3GT - you and your ladyfriend inside, and your four-legged friend has the whole GT vestibule...

Ryan ALLISON
(ryan.allison) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Re: I can't decide... on 12/16/2014 00:38:13 MST Print View

"seeing in the flesh"... this is the problem with all the gear I like. There's no place to go and see it before you buy. It's mostly purchasing online using educated guesses. It would save me a lot of headache if I could just see everything in person.

At any rate... I like your thinking here, Stuart. I have a week to think about it as I'm about to head home for the holidays, but I'm hoping the week that follows that I'll be on my first winter backpacking trip one of these tents.

peter vacco
(fluff@inreach.com)

Locale: no. california
Re: Re: I can't decide... on 12/16/2014 06:12:32 MST Print View

i have owned both akto and unna.
the unna was too big for just one man. it is like a palace, and the poles, in practice, are Very long.
being that large, it is warm and comfortable in the rain, but it is sort of distressing that comes out the sun, you'll be needing to carry it. over-big that my unna was, after i installed a window in it, absolutely top-of-the-hill as far as outdoor accommodation.
for the weight of an unna, and if weather is not a major issue, you can find larger tents for less money.

i have no complaints about my unna, only it was too big (for me), and because of that, it weighed a bit more than i cared for.

good luck,
v.

J P
(jpconst) - M

Locale: Kentucky
Me, too on 12/16/2014 06:48:15 MST Print View

Ryan--I am having the same difficulty--trying to decide on a Hilleberg without having the opportunity to see all of the options in front of me as there is no AD within driving distance of me. I liked the Jannu for its relatively low weight in the Hilleberg line but after ordering one and setting it up, I think it is a little tight for two people with 6'6"winter bags. I liked the Staika for its size, but not sure I want to deal with the weight. And so it goes.

Stuart--I was thinking of ordering a Kaitum 3 this week, as it seems a pretty fair trade off between weight and usable space, and saw your comment above that you upgraded to a Keron 3 for long-term durability reasons. Were there any other reasons?

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Re: Me, too on 12/16/2014 09:07:59 MST Print View

Having Neptune Mountaineering in my back yard has helped give me a sense of some of the models before buying, but I've learned what works and what doesn't through trial and error out in the backcountry. Personally, I've come to the realization that for two or more people the tunnel tents make more sense than the freestanding / self supporting models, although the Jannu does look like a cracking basecamp shelter for one.

I never thought I'd sell my Nammatj 2, but I found the vestibule tight for two with all our winter gear and when I saw the GT version I was sold. It's 1.5lb heavier and almost 3' longer than the non-GT, but I'll be using it exclusively on snow and hauling it in my pulk, so weight and dimensions are less of a concern.

James, for two people the Kaitum 3 is a palace. For three, however, I felt it was too much of a compromise. I bought it with three in mind. The dimensions shown on the website and in the catalogue make it appear to have the most interior space of all the 3P tents, but in reality the floor tapers significantly from the centre to the doors. Compared with the Keron 3, it's 9" wider in the middle (73" vs 64"), but it's actually 4" narrower at the doors (60" vs 64"). I found the inner tent would drape over the sleeping bags of the two folks on the outside. The extra width and height of the Keron 3 at the doors makes for easier entry/exit, and it provides slightly larger vestibules. Finally, the thicker poles give me the added confidence that it'll withstand whatever mother nature throws at it. The wind can be mental in the Rockies during winter storms. Split among three, the added weight over the Kaitum is reasonable.

These are personal reflections, and I know that others have been perfectly comfortable with three in the Kaitum 3.

Kaitum 3 inner:
Kaitum 3

Keron 3 inner:
Keron 3

J P
(jpconst) - M

Locale: Kentucky
Keron 3 on 12/16/2014 10:15:57 MST Print View

Stuart--thank you for the additional insight, and particularly for the photos! That was very helpful! It sounds like the longer Hilleberg tunnels have performed well for you in the mountains, which was a concern for me--finding a large enough site and their ability to handle winds from varying directions. Sounds like I have a little more research to do.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Other tunnel interior photos on 12/16/2014 12:22:08 MST Print View

Keron 4:

K4


Nammatj 3 with two LW pads:

N3 2LW


Nammatj 3 with one LW pad and two short pads:

N3 3pad


Nammatj 2 (sorry, can't find one with pads inside):

N2


And lastly, the Nammatj 2 and Nammatj 3 exteriors compared, showing the extra width and height on the 3P version:

N2 N3

victor larivee
(vlarivee) - MLife

Locale: white mountains
Nammatj 3??? on 12/22/2014 13:46:26 MST Print View

I am considering the Nammatj 3 but I am concerned with my sleeping bag pressing against the inner tent at the end.

I called Hilleberg and they stated that the section between the poles is 45" long, that leaves 42" from the second pole to the end of the tent, slanted roof. With my calculation at 78" (length of my sleeping pad) there is only about 9" from the floor to the ceiling. If this is true not only will my bag be touching but my feet will definitely be pushing against the inner tent. I'm I missing something?

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Nammatj 3??? on 12/22/2014 15:02:43 MST Print View

Stuarts the guy to answer that Victor.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Re: Nammatj 3??? on 12/22/2014 17:29:33 MST Print View

Victor - Can you provide some more information? You've said your pad is 78" long, so I assume it's a LW Exped or similar, 2.5" thick. How tall are you, and what's the length and temperature rating or loft of the sleeping bag? How many will you be using the Nammatj 3 with?

I'm 5'9", and I own a Nammatj 2GT, which is 4" shorter (inner tent height) than the Nammatj 3, so the angle is slightly more acute on mine. I use the LW Exped. My shoulder season bag is a 6' WM Alpinlite which does not touch the sloping roof at the foot of the inner tent even when my head is 6" from the door. My winter bag is a 6'6" WM Kodiak. It does just touch the inner tent, but I can't say I've ever noticed my size 11 feet being anywhere close. I follow Hilleberg's recommendation and put my WP/B jacket over the foot of my sleeping bag to prevent condensation transfer.

If you're using the Nammatj 3 for 2P, you can angle the sleeping pads to get you a little more usable length. If you're looking at 3P usage, I would strongly suggest considering the Keron 3 with its vertical doors on both ends.

J P
(jpconst) - M

Locale: Kentucky
GT Ventilation on 12/22/2014 19:15:51 MST Print View

Stuart--in your experience, is the ventilation in the Nammatj GT models as effective as the non-GT models?

victor larivee
(vlarivee) - MLife

Locale: white mountains
my deets on 12/22/2014 19:47:11 MST Print View

Stuart,
thanks for the info. I'm 6' tall, will be using an exped LW 2.5" and a marmot pinnacle sleeping (15deg regular)bag (similar set up for the second person). Will probably be using it mostly for 2p but i want to make sure 3 could fit for an over nighter. Living in the white mountains alot of times the tent will be pitched on a wood platform. I have been studing hilleberg tents and like the nammatj for its overall shorter length and big door. Sounds like my consern with the slanted roof might not be warranted.

Edited by vlarivee on 12/22/2014 19:48:50 MST.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Re: GT Ventilation on 12/22/2014 21:51:11 MST Print View

James - I really like the possibilities with the GT vestibule which I why I swapped out my Nammatj 2 (which I thought I'd never part with) for the 2GT. Aside from the obvious additional weight, the potential downsides are the additional ~3' to the length of the shelter, which may make it a bit more challenging to pitch outside winter, and condensation build-up under that big vestibule. I don't consider the latter to be a function of ventilation, rather that you have a 30sqft or 26sqft floorless section (Nammatj 3GT vs 2GT) under an outer tent that truly pitches down to the ground. Tony Hobbs' recent video of his Nammatj 3GT made me chuckle - here was an avowed Trailstar user who, on his first night out under a tent in 3 years, zipped up his outer tent tight and was surprised how steamy the interior was in the morning.

Pitch the foot end into the wind, leave the vents open whenever possible, and in high humidity situations (like rapid freeze/melt cycles in spring) cover as much of the vestibule floor as you can with a groundsheet. If conditions permit, zip the GT's outer door down from the top, leaving a ~1' threshold of Kerlon 1800 to block spindrift while allowing maximum ventilation.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Re: my deets on 12/22/2014 22:17:33 MST Print View

Victor - At 6' with a 15F regular length bag I don't see you having any problems in 2P mode under the Nammatj 3. I was really lucky to be able to compare the Nammatj 3, Nammatj 2GT and Keron 3/4 models this fall, and hopefully the pic posted above of the Nammatj 3 with two LW pads will give you an indication of how much space you'll have width-wise.

For occasional 3P use, you'll get by. It's going to be cozy, as the foot end tapers down from 64" to something like 57 or 58". Three standard width rectangular pads will overlap, but three medium XTherm/XLite pads might just fit side by side.

I had quite a few conversations with Shannon and Stuart at Hilleberg over the last few months, and they were great to work with. My namesake nailed it when he said that - for maximum comfort on extended winter trips - go to the next size up (eg Keron 4 for 3P, Nammatj 3 for 2P); but for shorter duration and three season trips the actual person rating should be reasonable.

On a wooden platform the shorter length of the Nammatj over the Keron will be much easier to fit (~11' vs 14').

Edited by lotuseater on 12/22/2014 22:21:11 MST.

Jeff Jeff
(TwoFortyJeff) - F
Re: Just sharing some thoughts.... on 12/22/2014 23:23:07 MST Print View

I am also looking at the Nammataj for a tent for use above treeline in the PNW. Any thoughts between the Nammataj 3 and the Nammataj 2 GT for 2 people? Would the 2 person be too tight if I'm waiting out a storm? Is the vestibule on the non-GT version big enough for two pairs of ski boots and a stove?

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Re: Re: Just sharing some thoughts.... on 12/23/2014 10:17:50 MST Print View

Jeff - The tradeoff is going to be whether you want more space in the inner tent, or a more versatile vestibule.

I'm fine with the space available for two adults in the Nammatj 2. It's thermally efficient but not cramped. However I found the regular vestibule was tight with winter gear as there really wasn't space to bring much into the inner tent. I felt like I was climbing over packs to get in and out. The GT vestibule offers ~50% more living space plus gear storage, and the entryway keeps the inner tent much more protected from the elements.

However the Nammatj 3 is 14oz lighter than the 2GT. It has the added height and width that makes the inner tent more liveable and it's easier to get in and out with gear on one side of the vestibule. Yes, you could absolutely keep two pairs of ski boots and a stove in its vestibule. If you don't need the GT, then the 3P non-GT is a more practical choice.

Regardless of choice, be aware that Hilleberg put their prices up ~10% every January. You've got about two weeks before the products become that much more expensive.

Edited by lotuseater on 12/23/2014 10:21:26 MST.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Unna & Anjan 2 pics. on 12/23/2014 13:18:01 MST Print View

Afternoon folks,

Off work for the Xmas holidays so decided to pitch my Unna and
Anjan 2 in the basement.

My main intention was to figure out what
to do with my pack and boots when using the Unna, but decided to pitch the Anjan also.


By pulling out the bottom door peg point a bit I can get my boots and pack in to the area
between the inner and out, my pack inside
an Exped Snozzle but may use a trash bag instead.

I purchased the Anjan 2 for solo use as
I really like the Anjan 3GT my wife and I use.

3height="309">

4

5

Edited by stephenm on 12/23/2014 13:20:55 MST.

Jeff Jeff
(TwoFortyJeff) - F
Re: Re: Re: Just sharing some thoughts.... on 12/23/2014 14:00:38 MST Print View

Stuart, thanks for the info. In the winter, I mostly carry clothing and climbing gear which stays in the tent. Minus the sharp stuff which stays outside. I like the weight savings of the 3 vs the 2 GT. I think a 2 would be too small for all my stuff based on your photos.

How does it do when being hit on the side by really strong winds? I had a rough night on Rainier where we had 40mph wind with 60mph gusts coming from the side. I was in an REI rental tent that handled it VERY well but it had 4 poles that crossed which is about as strong as you can get. Also too heavy, hence my shopping for a Hilleberg : )

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Just sharing some thoughts.... on 12/23/2014 14:19:10 MST Print View

Jeff,

If your considering the Nammatj 3 GT for 2 people then the
Tarra is worth looking at also as its a true 2 person shelter with dual vestibules, also it is only 7oz more than the Nammatj 3 GT.

Edited by stephenm on 12/23/2014 15:46:24 MST.

Jeff Jeff
(TwoFortyJeff) - F
Re: Re: Re: Just sharing some thoughts.... on 12/23/2014 16:30:41 MST Print View

No, the GT models are heavier than I want. I guess a 2 GT would work, but a 3 is lighter.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Re: Re: Just sharing some thoughts.... on 12/23/2014 17:29:07 MST Print View

Sounds like should go with the 3 so.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Re: Re: Re: Re: Just sharing some thoughts.... on 12/23/2014 19:10:52 MST Print View

Jeff -

Tunnel tents are designed to deform under heavy winds, which can cause the inner tent to move in a way you're not used to under a 4 season dome tent. But that's a major factor in making them suitable for raging storms in the arctic and antarctic - the give means that the poles and the fabric aren't pushed to their breaking point anywhere near as quickly as a dome tends to be. This can be mitigated through site selection and pointing the tail end of the tent into the prevailing wind (which probably shift as much in PNW as they do in the Rockies), by digging down into the snow to lower the profile of the tent, adding extra guylines, and by using a second set of poles in the worst conditions. Take a look at the following two videos to get a sense of what's within tolerance. As you'll see, Hilleberg test their Black Label / Kerlon 1800 tunnel tents to handle 60mph side winds without the extra precautions mentioned above:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBwDOBSBnlA

www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eFAyKMz314

If wind tolerance is a priority, I'd suggest the lower profile of the Nammatj 2GT rather than the taller Nammatj 3. The 2GT also has the advantage of a third pole. In his series on tunnel tent design, Roger Caffin indicated that number of poles hits the sweet spot for maximum strength. Both of the Hillies I now use are three pole tunnel designs, and that's based on a lot of trial and error.

The tunnel tents are intended mostly for trips where the camp is moved every night. For a basecamp left unattended during the day, I'd second the Tarra that Stephen recommended, or the Jannu if you're willing to get cozy with your tentmate. They have stronger static snowload abilities, but they are heavier than the equivalent domes. The Tarra, which Doug Smith kicked off this 16 page thread with, is Hilleberg's strongest 2P shelter, period. And it's quite a lot more spacious than the Nammatj 2. Check out the review on outdoorgearlab:

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/4-Season-Tent-Reviews/Hilleberg-Tarra

The Jannu reminds me of the MLD Trailstar in that it's really low to the ground, so it shrugs off wind - and yet it also handles snowloads unlike the aforementioned tarp. It gives up a lot of creature comforts, but punches above its weight given that it's a Red Label/ Kerlon 1200 tent. Outdoorgearlab also rate it highly:

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/4-Season-Tent-Reviews/Hilleberg-Jannu

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Latest Edition on 12/25/2014 12:11:25 MST Print View

After many trips with my 2 buddies my Kaitum 3 has gone to a new
home to make way for it's big brother.

1

Edited by stephenm on 12/25/2014 12:12:25 MST.

victor larivee
(vlarivee) - MLife

Locale: white mountains
sweet on 12/25/2014 15:44:59 MST Print View

Lucky!

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: sweet on 12/25/2014 15:59:36 MST Print View

After a winter trip with my buddies two weeks ago,
I took the executive decision to upgrade from a 3p to a 4p GT.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Re: Re: sweet on 12/26/2014 09:59:56 MST Print View

I wish I had a need for one of these tents. They just look amazing...

I wonder if I could do a 4p GT as a tiny house............

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Re: sweet on 12/26/2014 11:38:49 MST Print View

Hi Jen,

Its nearly as big as my first apartment ;-)

Daryl and Daryl
(lyrad1) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Just sharing some thoughts.... on 12/26/2014 11:39:31 MST Print View

Stuart,

Thanks for the links. Videos remind me that I typically backpack in much milder conditions than some others do.

Wind didn't distort the tents much but it sure distorted the conversation. I couldn't understand a thing they were saying.

Daryl in Seattle

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
exactly stephen on 12/26/2014 12:27:05 MST Print View

So I'm thinking just pitch one of these in the back corner of my brother's lot - like a tiny house, but cooler. Chuck can have the vestibule space for sleeping, I can use the shower and bathroom of my brother's house. I can use my cook set to make meals....


Hey. I might be onto something here!

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: exactly stephen on 12/26/2014 13:11:09 MST Print View

I think you might be Jen,

You could string a power cord out to run a
little fridge and fan, or even a couple of solar panels on the roof :-)

Happy days.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Re: Re: exactly stephen on 12/26/2014 13:16:44 MST Print View

OH MAN! he's got power back there! for a water feature that he's not using, and for some landscape lighting that isn't hooked up. but the electricity boxes are!


my only concern would be the heat of summer.........but i guys that's what the pool is for, right?

Daryl and Daryl
(lyrad1) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest, USA, Earth
Re: Re: Re: exactly stephen on 12/26/2014 13:31:39 MST Print View

Having power changes everything.

Hanging a trouble light with a 100 watt bulb inside will keep things warmer and drier.

Coffee in the morning can be heated with one of those heating coils that people take on vacations.

A fan in the summer should keep things cool enough at night.

Radio, tv, music?

Just In Time
(ArcturusBear1)
Re: Re: Re: exactly stephen on 12/26/2014 13:37:29 MST Print View

"my only concern would be the heat of summer.........but i guys that's what the pool is for, right?"

That and a net/mesh tent with a reflective cuben top/tarp...

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Re: Re: exactly stephen on 12/26/2014 14:15:22 MST Print View

It would be great Jen,

The big door has a removeable mesh insert also :-)

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
TT Moment winter mods (could work with Enan and Akto) on 12/27/2014 19:00:25 MST Print View

The main modification was placing the crossing pole inside the fly for more support. It is partially held in place by double-sided Velcro cable ties sewn inside at the two reinforcements for the original outer X-ing pole straps. Tension also helps hold it in high winds.

I think the Akto could use this system with TWO inside X-ing poles, somewhat as I've done on my Scarp 2. (See "Winter Hiking" page and search for my "Scarp 2 Winter Mods".)

(Can't seem to get my photos to download at this time. I'll try later.)

Edited by Danepacker on 12/27/2014 19:06:18 MST.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: TT Moment winter mods (could work with Enan and Akto) on 12/27/2014 20:43:15 MST Print View

Hi Eric,

Why not call Petra Hilleberg and mention your mods, she is great
to talk too.

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
BIG tent on 12/28/2014 01:15:07 MST Print View

Stephen, congrats on your 4GT! Every time I see one of those huge beasts I conjure up images of family camping and weathering a storm with my wife and kids and two dogs inside, living peacefully. Hahaha. One day I'll have to get one.

Stuart, thanks for posting the comparison photos between the shades of green. And you're correct (as we discussed in PM), the new "Sand" color is a much darker shade than the old sand, and is best described as "bronze". It is an extremely nice color IMHO. It combines the benefits of stealth camping with a pleasing to look at color. Bright enough to feel roomy and yet dark enough to feel like you're actually being shaded from the hot sun.

I'd love to see some more reviews of the Anjan 2... (looking at you Stephen) hahaha. Photos and real world input on longevity are what I'm particularly interested in.

Ryan ALLISON
(ryan.allison) - MLife

Locale: PNW
Well... on 01/03/2015 13:42:33 MST Print View

I ended up sitting down and really thinking about pros and cons, but mainly being realistic of what I actually do and need. It lead me to the Anjan 2. I decided I don't need a true mountaineering tent; I just need an extended 3 season tent.

First pitch below. What a tricky situation to get a tent pitched with a few inches of snow and frozen ground!


Anjan 2

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
nm on 01/03/2015 13:46:25 MST Print View

nm

Edited by stephenm on 03/05/2015 08:48:13 MST.

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Anjan 2 on 01/03/2015 18:10:29 MST Print View

Ryan, great looking tent, you got it in the right color. ;-) I really like how the outer tent fabric now goes all the way to the ground.

Staking in frozen ground is not easy, nor are getting the stakes (or deadman anchors) out. I've found titanium "nail" pegs like the ones Hilleberg sells to be my favorite stakes if I'm only going to carry one. So much of the ground in CA is either very hard or very rocky, and the Ti nails are just about the only thing that go in well. When I went winter camping with my Saitaris I was super happy I'd brought my Ti nails, as they were the only thing I could pound into the several inches of ice on top of ground, where I set up my tent.

Stephen, excellent plan about the friends carrying the Keron 4. Hahahaha

Edited by Jedi5150 on 01/03/2015 18:11:11 MST.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Pegs in winter on 01/03/2015 18:23:30 MST Print View

I much prefer pitching on a newly stomped snow platform that I can shove my snow and sand pegs in, vs frozen tundra that nothing wants to penetrate. Like you say, Doug, retrieving the pegs next morning can be harder than placing them - the snow and sand pegs are best dug out rather than pulled. I discovered to my annoyance how soft aluminium pegs are.

Must try the ti pegs you mention next time I'm on a thinner snow base.

Edit: added pic.

Bent peg

Edited by lotuseater on 01/04/2015 13:34:22 MST.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
PHOTOS OF MY "WINTERIZED" TARPTENT MOMENT DW on 01/03/2015 22:31:56 MST Print View

X-ing pole at apex of fly W/QR strap holding some tensionDespite Senior Daroli's contention that the Moment design derives from the Scarp design I feel that the Hilleberg Akto is the inspiration for both of them, being the best known of the early central hoop solo tents with a vestibule.

Here are photos of my "winterized" Moment DW with the optional X-ing pole inside the fly. Also shown are guy lines and, barely visible fly hem stakes in the added hem stake loops. Videos of Moment DWs in high winds clearly show the need of fly hem stakes to minimize flapping.

I feel the AKTO could also be "winterized" by adding two X-ing poles beneath the fly as I did on my 2 person Scarp 2, as shown here at BPL in the "Winter Hiking" section.

After testing this winter in the Spring Mountains north of 'Vegas I'll know if the X-ing pole or main pole need to be stronger. I really doubt that will be the case.Main pole guy and internal X-ing pole "hump" visiblemg src="/backpackinglight/user_uploads/1420349845_116978.jpg" alt="End view W/center ridge guy on hiking pole" width="550" height="413">

Edited by Danepacker on 01/03/2015 22:50:40 MST.

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Soulo? on 01/04/2015 02:11:30 MST Print View

Hey Eric, so how is adding two crossing poles to a single pole design different than the Soulo? I get that your X-poles are underneath the fly, but that seems more cumbersome.

If the goal is to be able to use one shelter for both winter and summer, with different pole configurations, I like it.

Edited by Jedi5150 on 01/04/2015 02:24:33 MST.

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: photos of my "winterized" tarptent moment dw on 01/04/2015 05:45:52 MST Print View

Kinda wish you'd start your own TT love fest thread Eric. You're just being rude.

19 posts in this thread alone, so far...

Edited by kthompson on 01/07/2015 07:20:16 MST.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: photos of my "winterized" tarptent moment dw on 01/04/2015 12:06:36 MST Print View

Well said Mr T.

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Re: Re: photos of my "winterized" tarptent moment dw on 01/04/2015 13:02:02 MST Print View

"Kinda wish you'd start your own TT love fest thread Eric. You're just being rude."



Hahaha... I think Ken was brave enough to say what most of us were thinking. I was just chuckling to myself yesterday because Eric has quite a lot of posts in this thread and I think every one of them is about the TT. I'm not a TT hater by any means, I'm sure they are awesome tents, but this isn't a TT thread.

Eric, you've got a lot of great photos, info, and mods to your TT, it is probably deserving of it's own thread, and it would be easier to folks using the search function to find that way.

Edited by Jedi5150 on 01/04/2015 13:04:02 MST.

Theo Diekmann
(Theo321) - F
Re: Anjan 2 on 01/05/2015 03:48:13 MST Print View

"Ryan, great looking tent, you got it in the right color. ;-) I really like how the outer tent fabric now goes all the way to the ground."

Have they really redesigned the Anjan in that way? I could not find any further (official) info on that. The high outer fly has always been one of the key reasons against the Anjan 2 for me.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Anjan 2 on 01/05/2015 04:22:41 MST Print View

They lowered the fly a bit, it is still about 5-6 inches off the ground.

David .
(SirBC) - M
Enan before April? on 01/05/2015 08:34:54 MST Print View

I have a backpacking trip in Patagonia at the end of March and was hoping to give the Enan a try for that tip. Is there any word on the official release date for the tent? I've seen mention of "April" but not sure if that is just an estimate.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Enan before April? on 01/05/2015 08:47:27 MST Print View

Even if it was released in time it might
be prudent to try it on a few trips close to home first.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
OK, OK, OK on 01/06/2015 14:36:03 MST Print View

I do get the point that this IS a Hilleberg thread and that I'm overly enthusiastic about Tarptent products. Mea culpa.

But the point that I keep mentioning is that the AKTO and ENAN can be made into true 4 season tents with under-fly crossing poles as I have done.

* So... I'll post no more praise of Tarptent or any TT photos. And I apologize for stepping on the thread theme.

In my opinion I think Hilleberg makes tents and tent designs of the very highest quality. If I had to do a Greenland or Canadian barren lands expedition I'd be getting a Hilleberg tent without a doubt just for the safety they offer.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: OK, OK, OK on 01/06/2015 14:59:16 MST Print View

Seriously Eric you should start a Tarp Tent Owners thread, the one on
Outdoorsmagic has a lot of good info.

Keep up the good work.

Dennis Lee
(hjldennis) - F

Locale: So Cal
Nallo 4 GT - our family outdoor mansion on 01/07/2015 00:32:33 MST Print View

With two little children, my wife an I can only dream of BPL. As far as tent goes, we tend to take Nallo 4 GT over our BA Copper Spur4, even in summer although the BA Copper Spur is cooler and lighter - well.. Hilleberg just looks better! LOL But seriously the vestibule on the Nallo4 GT is hard to give up even if it means a couple more pounds, especially with kids. I am thoroughly happy with our Nallo as it offers our family functionality and security with relatively light weight. The only possible problem is finding a spot, especially in the Sierra, but I am sure we can manage to put it up one way or another. Here are some photos and videos.
Ellen Wilson in Glacier NP

Video (Sorry about the ad. it's because of the music I have in the video): CLICK HERE

Yosemite Badger Area

Video (also with copyrighted music thus ad on PC): CLICK HERE

Edited by hjldennis on 01/07/2015 00:50:35 MST.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
GT Vestibules on 01/07/2015 02:53:01 MST Print View

I think GT Vestibules are so worth
the extra weight and the extra time for site selectoon when
they tent is shared.

James Cahill
(DMATB) - M

Locale: Suthern Carl
Re: Nallo 4 GT - our family outdoor mansion on 01/07/2015 10:32:15 MST Print View

Very impressed that you were able to take your kids out on a winter trip like that! Looks like a lot of fun, even if it was colder than you expected.

Dennis Lee
(hjldennis) - F

Locale: So Cal
Hilleberg made it happen on 01/07/2015 18:17:31 MST Print View

The tent made it happen. Well... sort of. My wife doesn't like the cold weather and not a fan of winter camping. I told her to imagine our pretty red tent on a snowfield..lol. The kids were double bagged (we put them in their mummies and then into a double bag), and we used up 22 oz fuel in an overnighter to make hot waters. They still complained a bit, but we are from so. California. It was fairly calm so we left the vestibule door and even the mesh inner wide opened, but we still had quite a bit of condensation from 4 of us. I was hoping for more snow (there were about 2'), but overall it was really fun for everyone. Sorry for a mini trip report but at least the Hilleberg Nallo review is in the mix. Thumbs up from our family!

Edited by hjldennis on 01/07/2015 18:28:28 MST.

jimmer ultralight
(jimmer) - F
Lovely pics,Dennis... on 01/07/2015 22:55:42 MST Print View

Where was that top photo by the lake taken?

Dennis Lee
(hjldennis) - F

Locale: So Cal
Glacier NP on 01/08/2015 01:44:08 MST Print View

It was taken at Lake Ellen Wilson in Glacier National Park. There was a waterfall on the opposite side of the lake!

jimmer ultralight
(jimmer) - F
Ah...thanks. I will have to check it out when I'm up there next trip.. on 01/08/2015 02:20:55 MST Print View

Pretty pic!

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
2015 Handbook on 01/13/2015 18:56:39 MST Print View

Hilleberg have just published the 2015 Handbook in PDF format on their website at

http://docs.hilleberg.net/Hilleberg2014Handbook-US.pdf

They've done a great job updating the dimensional diagrams so you can see not only maximum height and width, but also how much taper exists. This is a big improvement over previous years, and should help customers make more informed decisions. That's especially true with the Red and Yellow Label tents. Nicely done folks.

Dimensions

Secondly, they are really pushing the sand flysheet pics this year. As they should. I saw one up close and personal for the first time yesterday, and I really like it. The green flysheet has darkened significantly in the last year or so, and despite a yellow inner, it makes for a cool tone in overcast conditions. Red in contrast is always in your face warm, best for white-out conditions. Sand provides a stealthy colour with a neutral to slightly warm tone. For comparison, it's very similar in colour to MLD's olive brown silnylon, perhaps just a little lighter but not significantly.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
nm on 01/14/2015 07:37:12 MST Print View

nm

Edited by stephenm on 03/05/2015 08:48:54 MST.

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Re: 2015 Handbook on 01/14/2015 09:29:25 MST Print View

I have noticed that there has been significant weight gain over time for their most popular models. Perhaps more features have been added now that they have the lighter weight line of shelters. Not sure, however.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Re: Re: Re: 2015 Handbook on 01/14/2015 10:39:24 MST Print View

Dave - the published weights increased two or three years ago, and some were pretty significant. Most shelters were revised up between 3-8oz depending on capacity. However, the discrepancy existed before. I remember the Soulo I bought in late 2011 was a good 6oz heavier than the published weight, so the handbook was just catching up with reality.

I haven't seen too many design changes to existing models since the second version of the Saivo was introduced. The Akto inner tent changed about 2 years ago, but that's about all I've noticed. New suppliers perhaps?

The newly published dimensions are in many cases narrower than in previous years, by an inch or two.

Edit: Compared with previous catalogues, I see that most of the dimensions remain the same in cm, but they appear to have rounded down the conversion to inches to the lower number.

Edited by lotuseater on 01/21/2015 11:08:53 MST.

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Re: Re: Re: 2015 Handbook on 01/15/2015 19:26:55 MST Print View

I haven't browsed the Hilleberg site in a while but I was frankly shocked at the pricing. A couple of years ago, Petra made the claim that the increase in prices was due to the falling US dollar. Given the current strength of the USD, I would not have expected to see another increase. Ah well.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
nm on 01/15/2015 19:33:43 MST Print View

Nm

Edited by stephenm on 03/05/2015 08:20:27 MST.

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 2015 Handbook on 01/15/2015 19:40:53 MST Print View

Indeed. But still worth the price for serious 4 season treks.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
nm on 01/15/2015 19:50:54 MST Print View

Nm

Edited by stephenm on 03/05/2015 08:19:24 MST.

Pierre Descoteaux
(Pierre) - MLife
Hilleberg Nammatj 3 question on 01/17/2015 07:45:07 MST Print View

Hello, I'm in the process of making my own cuben nammatj 3 tent... Any one has any knowledge of the size of the rear and front vents? Height front the ground, width, length, length of the curved 3D part, shape of the zippered opening, type of zips used, is it backed up by mesh?
This info would help me greatly! And steer me in the right direction.
Thank you very much.
Pierre

Warren Wilkinson
(icensnow) - M

Locale: New England, USA
Hilleberg pricing on 01/18/2015 17:39:10 MST Print View

Eric - I have an Akto and have been very interested in your x-pole option. Thanks for telling us about it and please keep posting. I think your comments are appropriate for this thread. Thanks again.

Dave U. - I too am shocked at the pricing. There isn't much inflation and there hasn't been for some years, here or in Europe, and people's pay isn't going up, so how is an annual 10% increase in price justified?

- Warren

Patagonia Bound
(mtinmia) - F
Nammatj 2 vs 3 on 01/20/2015 20:11:32 MST Print View

This is a great thread. I'm looking at getting the Nammatj for myself and my husband to use on extended backpacking trips. It will mostly be used just for the two of us (with our 60 pound dog joining us occasionally) - but we are nevertheless considering getting the 3 person version to ensure plenty of room for our gear and to cook in bad weather.

Any insights on this issue? Nammatj 2 users - does that vestibule feel cramped? Is the 3 person version worth the extra weight (approx 11 oz) for the added space?

Thanks in advance!

Stuart Murphy
(stu_m) - MLife
Downsides? on 01/20/2015 20:17:31 MST Print View

I have never used a Hilleberg. Will probably buy one one day. But some things about them annoy me:

* guy ropes non reflective

* floors are black (usually covered by matts, but grey is nicer to live with/easier to spot damage)

* the guy points are possibly not wide enough (resulting in noticeable tension between guy points that is not unifrom across the tent - perhaps worst on Nammatj with guys angled towards ends of tents)

* Hlleberg appear to be arrogant in their "rice fixing" (eg. not allowing retailers to sell below RRP) and general price increasesd (outstripping inflation).

* maybe they are even a little overhyped?

* new green colour is too dark (who wants a black tent lol) which leaves only the sand unless you want safety red (roll eyes)


Juts sayin'

Cheers
Stuart

Dennis Lee
(hjldennis) - F

Locale: So Cal
I love our safety red tent on 01/20/2015 21:21:30 MST Print View

I bought it used so I really didn't have a choice, but I like our red tent to go along with my red boots, red snow shoes and shovel (I think that's all the reds I've got). It does feel a little hot during summer at least psychologically. And everyone in the family has tripped over a guyline at least once, but that's because we're clumsy with two children.

You can see our safety red giant (we have the nallo 4 gt) miles away so if you're looking for a solitude, it will help you to run away too lol

jimmer ultralight
(jimmer) - F
Arrogance? on 01/20/2015 22:06:24 MST Print View

Bo Hilleberg, Hilleberg founder ,is quoted as always telling his children "We are not here for the company,it is here for us".. This tells me a lot.

The protected pricing structure ,IMHO is a good one for their particular niche. For dealers of premium priced goods,having your margin being protected from predatory discounting is only fair. If you want cheap,get some other maker's product at 40% off..Hilleberg does not seem to mind.

It's really no different than MLD,TARPENT XPACKS wtc..Their goios are rarely on sale a steep discounts and only are available from limited outlets. The HB pricing structure also prOtects the consumer a bit at resale,knowing they will not have to compete with heavily discounted new stuff flooding the market if they put theirs up for sale.

Things I wish they would change are-

Hillebergs' management might take a good look at real inflation numbers ,the US economy and the Euro vs Dollar exchange rates over the last few years. No much reason for their yearly 10% price increases lately..Pretty insane IMHO.

The final thing I DO find somewhat arrogant about Hilleberg is their resistance to make NEEDED product improvememts. Most of their stuff is well designed, but..

A good example is the RAJD..It is SERIOUSLY flawed from the standpoint of ventilation/condensation. The doors and side awnings should have been redesigned YEARS ago.Apparently bugs and tent condensation are not problems in Sweden?

Since 2006,the RAJD design has been improved on by SMD,Tarptent,ZPacks and probably a few others.You would think Hilleberg could to do the same.

Edited by jimmer on 01/20/2015 22:15:12 MST.

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Arrogance? on 01/20/2015 22:18:58 MST Print View

A sil MLD Solomid XL $220

Inner net insert $150

Avg price of higher end poles $120

Pole extensions so you can pitch with an inverted V $10

Stakes, needs six $20

Totals $520 not including tax and shipping.

Now what about a Hilleberg Atko? Comes all ready to use, stakes and all. Also $520

Look at any tent by Black Diamond , Mountain Hardware, Marmot, for four season use. Hillebergs are not so much if any more expensive than other options.

Charge what the market will bear.

Edited by kthompson on 01/20/2015 22:19:45 MST.

Stuart Murphy
(stu_m) - MLife
Innovation on 01/20/2015 22:22:55 MST Print View

The Akto has arguably been usurped by designs like Tarptent's Scarp (though there is a question mark in my mind over quality of workmanship/materials - perhaps to the detriment of performance i.e. with Hilleberg likely significantly better).

I agree with you that for better or worse they seem to get a design and stay with it (I assume it must be a lot of work/expensive to bring a new tent to market).

But they are doing things like introducing new materials/designs eg. via the Anjan and Enan's of this world but are they likely to improve the Akto significantly... I doubt that?

They are also selective with the information they promulgate (eg. why bang on so much about tear strength when tensile strength is likely the more important factor - I cannot find thoat specification anywhere on their website; I doubt any of their tents are stronger than the Soulo even though they are marketed as such -- sure Kerlon 1800 may be more durable but I reckon the Soulo (due to its design and comparatively small size) would be the last tent standing (in their line-up) in a big wind (the exception may be their tunnels if the wind is from the perfect direction) ... so at the end of the day I treat them with the skepticism of any business). Of course I may be wrong on the aforementioned technical points but even their annual 10% increase (I agree with you -- how is that justified other than the market will bear it, so they can get away with it?) reminds me it is a business they are running, not some community service for people who need tents.

Edited by stu_m on 01/20/2015 22:25:53 MST.

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Arrogance? on 01/20/2015 22:28:45 MST Print View

Good comparison Ken. However, only one of those shelters can actually take a snow load and it doesn't start with an H.

jimmer ultralight
(jimmer) - F
And.. on 01/20/2015 22:43:09 MST Print View

The MLDs are made in the US ..

Hilleberg tents are made in Estonia.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
Hilleberg & Tarptent quality on 01/20/2015 23:40:56 MST Print View

Stu,

I'd say that Hilleberg and Tarptent are of equal quality. Tarptent may build tents of lighter materials but all their materials and construction are the same quality as Hilleberg's in my own observation of 3 Hilleberg tents and 4 Tarptents.

Hilleberg definitely does design most of its tents for severe weather while Tarptents are lighter, mostly 3 season tents. That difference does not speak to quality of construction, just design.

** NOTE:
In response to the comments below please note my last paragraph above. I acknowledge that Tarptents are lighter and designed for 3 season use while most Hillebergs are designed for severe weather, hence the heavier materials. Like comparing a Honda CRV to a Toyota 4 Runner. Different design and materials for different purposes.

Edited by Danepacker on 01/21/2015 13:19:28 MST.

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: And.. on 01/21/2015 06:56:40 MST Print View

So

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
nm on 01/21/2015 06:58:48 MST Print View

Nm

Edited by stephenm on 03/05/2015 08:18:41 MST.

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Re: Hilleberg & Tarptent quality on 01/21/2015 08:29:09 MST Print View

I too have owned several Tarptents and Hillebergs. It depends on what you define as quality. Is it stitching quality? If so, my Akto had the inner stitched like it was completed by a drunk. Given all Hillebergs have the name of the person who made the tent on them, perhaps I should have called them (just kidding).

Hillebergs use heavier materials, including plastic and metal buckles. Does this provide a higher and more robust level of quality? Maybe. But they are much, much heavier than Tarptents. The latter are intended to be light so the comparison is probably not quite fair.

The prices they now charge are clearly based on a perceived brand value. Is it real? I haven't had a Tarptent or MLD Mid or (name it) fail in the backcountry. Although I used to be a big fan of Hilleberg, they are slowly losing my support. The prices are way out of whack and given the global economic conditions which are about to get quite volatile, I can see a rough year for Hilleberg sales.

(please tell me the new Enan solo 3 season tent is not $625)

Sorry for the thread drift.

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Nammatj 2 vs 3 on 01/21/2015 09:36:22 MST Print View

"Any insights on this issue? Nammatj 2 users - does that vestibule feel cramped? Is the 3 person version worth the extra weight (approx 11 oz) for the added space?"

I had a Nammatj 2 and it was big enough inside for two really close friends but no room for gear. The vestibule is sufficient for gear but then you have to crawl over the gear to get out or in (no problem if using for solo). The Nammatj 3 will offer more room inside the main body of the tent to store additional gear but the vestibule is no bigger. I might look at the Nammatj 2 GT with the huge vestibule instead of the Nammatj 3.

Also, have you considered the Katium 2, which has dual entries and dual vestibules? It weighs the same as the Nammatj 2 (has some lighter weigh fabrics).

Jeff Jeff
(TwoFortyJeff) - F
Re: Hilleberg & Tarptent quality on 01/21/2015 10:16:56 MST Print View

"I'd say that Hilleberg and Tarptent are of equal quality."

Damn, for $800 I would hope not. My rainbow fell apart in just a couple seasons. Even one of the vents was messed up from the factory.

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Re: Hilleberg & Tarptent quality on 01/21/2015 10:23:48 MST Print View

"My rainbow fell apart in just a couple seasons. Even one of the vents was messed up from the factory."

Did you send it back for a refund?

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Re: Nammatj 2 vs 3 on 01/21/2015 11:03:16 MST Print View

I'll second what Dave said about the Nammatj 2 - interior space is manageable for two, but I had to climb over packs to get in and out. For extended trips this would likely get old. The Nammatj 3 offers considerably more space both inside the inner tent, and also in the vestibule due to additional height and width. Packs plus dog in the vestibule would be much more manageable in the 3. Back on page 16 of this thread I posted some photos comparing the inner tent for the two tents.

Personally, I switched from the Nammatj 2 to the 2GT. I valued the extra bug-free space in the vestibule over additional space in the inner tent. However it does come at a weight premium over the Nammatj 3 (non-GT).

Jeff Jeff
(TwoFortyJeff) - F
Re: Re: Nammatj 2 vs 3 on 01/21/2015 11:16:20 MST Print View

The pictures definitely helped. I'll probably end up with the Nammatj 3. The 2 GT is too heavy and it will take longer to shovel out a site. The only things I keep in the vestibule are boots and cooking stuff anyways.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Innovation, quality and company ethos on 01/21/2015 12:08:54 MST Print View

I helped a friend make a decision on a 1P shelter recently, and it boiled down to Scarp 1 vs Akto. (Funny, the Tarptent to Hilleberg comparison almost always boils down to these two models.) The crossing poles and dual vestibule / door setup on the Scarp make for a more flexible shelter. In the end he went with the Akto because he doesn't plan to take it out in heavy snow, and more importantly he needed more vestibule space for his dog than the Scarp could offer. Other buyers have different criteria. It's nice to have the choice.

I've owned a couple of Tarptents, the SS2 and the Notch, and I'd say they are built to a different standard than Hillebergs. Different, not necessarily worse. Lighter materials means lighter weight, but less durability and more fiddly to pitch in bad weather. They do very well for what they were designed to do, but I would prefer to ride out a winter storm in my 2 or 3P Hillebergs. I would also expect to have the Hillebergs fully functional, without need for repairs, for the long term. The impression I got with the Tarptents I owned was that they would need replacing after a few seasons' heavy use. If I buy three Scarp 1s in the time that I own one Akto, which was the more economical purchase?

On the quality argument, I've had runs in the inner tents from both Tarptent and MLD, right out of the package. I've also had crooked stitching from both companies. They function fine, but may not be the most aesthetically pleasing. The one product quality issue I had with a Hilleberg was a missing zipper slider in an end vent. I contacted Hilleberg and it was replaced within the week. I was specifically asked whose name was on the tag, so they could address the QC issue with the right employee back at the manufacturing facility. I've written before about how Hilleberg treated me when I had concerns about the usable space in my Kaitum 3. They allowed me to exchange a nearly three year old tent for a new Keron 3 because (in their words) "we stand by our products for a lifetime." I was astonished at their customer service.

"Bo Hilleberg, Hilleberg founder ,is quoted as always telling his children "We are not here for the company,it is here for us".. This tells me a lot." I guess that depends on your interpretation. My wife is a tax accountant and runs her own company. She is currently on her third straight week without a weekend day off, and may not have one till after April 15. A lot of small businesses run this way, but it doesn't mean it's right. I read it that Bo Hilleberg wants his family and employees to have a balance between work, family and outside interests. That's pretty typical in Scandinavian countries.

The annual price increases in N. America are a kick in the wallet, no doubt. However they're also happening in Europe. And the prices over there are eye-watering. However we've seen ~10% price increases year on year from a number of cottage manufacturers and from the bigger outdoor brands. It's just that the base price of Hillebergs is so much higher to start with.

For most folks on BPL, backpacking is a three season hobby. The fourth season is for skiing or snowboarding or hut trips, or perhaps for whinging on forums. They don't need a Hilleberg, and would resent the weight and the price penalties for performance they won't ever use.

jimmer ultralight
(jimmer) - F
FWIW, on 01/21/2015 22:50:38 MST Print View

I actually have been seriously looking at a Hilleberg Rogen as a two person hard use tent for Fall hunts in the Rockies. I have thought about the durabilty vs price issue and I guess it comes down to me seeing,handling and setting up a Rogen before I can be convinced its worth $750.

Then again, several cottage makers are selling UL shelters made of relatively short lived Cuben for $600 to $700 these days...

Randy Nelson
(rlnunix) - F - M

Locale: Rockies
Re: Innovation, quality and company ethos on 01/21/2015 23:02:54 MST Print View

"For most folks on BPL, backpacking is a three season hobby. The fourth season is for skiing or snowboarding or hut trips, or perhaps for whinging on forums. They don't need a Hilleberg, and would resent the weight and the price penalties for performance they won't ever use."

Says the guy about to go on his first hut trip. :) (Probably didn't think I'd read the Hilleberg thread!)

Bring one of the Hillbergs along Stuart. I'd like to check one out in the field.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Hut trip on 01/21/2015 23:13:22 MST Print View

Touche, Randy. Oh, and I plan to. Now I've realized that the xc setup Skurka wants me to buy from Neptune would cost me north of $800, it's snowshoes all the way. In spite of the beer quota, I'll have plenty o' space on the pulk to bring a Hillie and the Kodiak. Heck, after the first night my snoring might banish me to the tent anyway...

r m
(rm) - M
Soulo and Jannu thoughts on 01/23/2015 07:48:45 MST Print View

I sold my soulo. Its an awesome tent, but at 6' I didn't like the length, nor the narrowness at each end. I should have went with an Unna.

The Jannu has been getting good use. The raised bathtub floor has probably proven more of a disadvantage than a benefit as I haven't camped in any lakes and its a condensation magnet. The feet end slopes, and is a bit saggy. I've taken to lining the side and foot with with gear to keep the bags drier. As suspected the vestibule is too low angled to shed any snow, but given the packs are there they take the snow loading and it hasn't yet dragged the front of the tent down.
If you use the closer zip side of the vestibule when its snowing you often get a little bit of snow in the inner, but its the easiest one to reach when you're inside and the vestibule is full of gear.
With a prolite and xtherm sitting right next to each other, there's enough space on either side there's enough room to stuff a bit of gear between you and the side walls.

Overall its a great tent, but I'm pondering larger tents for snow trips longer than three days, perhaps a Keron 3 (anyone know how they perform with a big dumping of snow? I'd rather not have to get up at night to clear snow).

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
nm on 01/23/2015 08:23:42 MST Print View

Nm

Edited by stephenm on 03/05/2015 08:17:23 MST.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Re: Soulo and Jannu thoughts on 01/23/2015 08:49:19 MST Print View

I just had my first look at a Jannu a couple of weeks ago, and - aside from the weight - I really like the design. I'm surprised that you call it a condensation machine, though. With the inner door open halfway, and the roof vent fully open, you should be getting enough airflow through there to keep the condensation at bay. That being said, two doors always wins for maximum airflow.

I swapped out my Kaitum 3 for a Keron 3 last year. The latter has more usable space inside, even though the Kaitum is wider in the middle. I have yet to use it in a heavy snowfall, but the 10mm poles and stronger flysheet give me added confidence that it'll do well with the occasional tapping of the roof from inside the tent. A dome with crossing poles will give you the maximum strength if you plan to use it as a basecamp, but you're sacrificing interior space or adding weight, or both, over a tunnel.

NW Hiker
(king2005ify) - M
Hilleberg as single wall tent and stove system on 01/23/2015 10:27:25 MST Print View

One of my favorite set-ups...I have a bunch of Hilleberg's, love to use them all seasons but this set-up is becoming my favorite Winter set-up. Took a Altai UL, had Rainy Pass install a stove-port, and use my Kifaru stove. Zero condensation, tons of room, not ultralight but easy to pull around in the ski pulk and the kids love it.

Hillies

pulk

Altai inside

Altai

Altai inside2

Altai stove

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
nm on 01/23/2015 16:16:31 MST Print View

Nm

Edited by stephenm on 03/05/2015 08:17:54 MST.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
nm on 02/01/2015 12:27:59 MST Print View

Nm

Edited by stephenm on 03/05/2015 08:16:36 MST.

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Re: Innovation on 02/01/2015 22:04:36 MST Print View

" I doubt any of their tents are stronger than the Soulo even though they are marketed as such -- sure Kerlon 1800 may be more durable but I reckon the Soulo (due to its design and comparatively small size) would be the last tent standing (in their line-up) in a big wind (the exception may be their tunnels if the wind is from the perfect direction) "

Stuart M, Having briefly owned both the Soulo and the Saivo, as well as Saitaris, Nammatj's, etc., I can tell you the Tarra or the Saivo would be the last Hillebergs standing. No doubt in my mind. The Saitaris has beefy materials, and the dome is bomb-proof, but the tunnel portion is the weak link (it really isn't weak, I'm just saying comparatively). What the Tarra and Saivo have going for them are not only are the materials stronger than the Soulo, but they have way more pole crossing points. The Tarra has 5 and the Saivo has 7!...vs three which are all very close together on the Soulo. I'll give you that the Soulo is small, but it has a fairly tall profile for the scale of the tent compared to the Tarra and Saivo.

My money would be on the Saivo if you were to make a competition of which Hillebergs would last the longest in heavy snows or strong winds. Until you've set up or been inside a Saivo in person, it's difficult to describe. They really rewrote the book on "bombproof" with that tent. And it's profile is just perfect for harsh conditions. All of this has a drawback of course, the Saivo is not roomy for a 3 person tent. The lighter and "smaller" Tarra has more living-space inside (headroom) and larger vestibules. As a side note, the Saivo probably has the best ventilation of any Black label Hilleberg. It has two huge roof vents, as well as two door vents. The Saitaris has the same four vents, but for a larger tent with more capacity. The Saivo is simply a gorgeous and phenomenal tent. I just really wish I had a need for one, but I don't.

PS- I happened to write this, the 400th post. I have reached a new level of badassedness. Hahaha

Edited by Jedi5150 on 02/01/2015 23:59:58 MST.

Stuart Murphy
(stu_m) - MLife
Last tent standing on 02/02/2015 20:25:33 MST Print View

Thanks Doug,

Have you watched the Outdoor Magazin videos of various tents being blown down (as far as I can gather they quote figures for the weakest angles)?

It is hard to predict the end results eg. 4 pole geodesic (albeit lightweight version of Terra Nova's Quasar) withstood 95km/h (from memory), whereas a couple of the best tents have managed around 130km/h (from memory).

Of course this is not necessarily inicative of "real world" performance or longevity.

The weird thing is, that even "shapes" that appear similar can yield significantly different results.

There is also sometimes a fine line between a tent looking "OK" and total collapse (where others give more warning).

It is a pity there isn't some kind of standardised tests that manufacturers use so custoemrs have some more objective info.

Hilleberg themselves must have this info (in front of their snow cannons) for their own tents but will not release it.

Anyway, I'm surprised by your experiences with those tents - thanks for sharing.

Cheers
Stuart

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Wind tests on 02/02/2015 21:59:02 MST Print View

Hi Stuart, for clarification, I never had any of my Hillebergs in extreme conditions. My observations are from nothing more than looking closely at the design, materials, and general "feel" of the tent. In other words, I hope I didn't make it sound like I was an expert on weather conditions with the tents, I'm simply making educated guesses based on my limited observations.

Even something as simple as pushing against a tent, opening an entrance zipper, shaking it out, etc., can give a surprisingly good idea for how solid a tent feels. But I totally hear what you're saying, I've heard that some flexing can be very beneficial as opposed to the catastrophic failure.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
nm on 02/11/2015 17:02:03 MST Print View

nm

Edited by stephenm on 03/05/2015 08:46:19 MST.

Stuart Murphy
(stu_m) - MLife
How much are Enan's - when are they available? on 02/11/2015 17:35:22 MST Print View

?

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: How much are Enan's - when are they available? on 02/11/2015 17:38:42 MST Print View

They are listed at 625$ and due in a week or so.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: How much are Enan's - when are they available? on 02/21/2015 14:18:51 MST Print View

No sign of the Enan yet, I am really looking forward
to getting it.

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Re: Re: How much are Enan's - when are they available? on 02/21/2015 16:07:57 MST Print View

$625?

Never thought that Cuben would look reasonable.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Re: Re: How much are Enan's - when are they available? on 02/21/2015 16:15:22 MST Print View

Fair point Dave, but if you add an inner tent in to the cost of the Cuben shelter the cost is much the same.

Edited by stephenm on 02/21/2015 16:49:36 MST.

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How much are Enan's - when are they available? on 02/21/2015 17:24:26 MST Print View

Regardless, that pricing is quite shocking.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How much are Enan's - when are they available? on 02/21/2015 17:31:01 MST Print View

It is indeed shockingly expensive.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: One Hillie to rule them all on 02/22/2015 21:23:03 MST Print View

I keep looking at the Unna for winter camping (it would be delightful in red). I use a Solomid XL now. The Unna would be a beautiful winter tent, especially if the weather turned nasty and I had to 'stay in,' but I just can't seem to get myself past the weight.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Re: One Hillie to rule them all on 02/22/2015 22:00:30 MST Print View

Doug - I have to agree. On so many levels the Unna appears to be the perfect 1P shelter, but then there's the weight...

Hilleberg have spent a lot of money developing the Kerlon 600 fabric. Why would they do that when they came out with the Kerlon 1000 a few years ago? Maybe because the perceived weight benefit of the 1000 over the 1200 (used by the Unna, Akto, Soulo, Nallo, etc) wasn't great enough? I'm just speculating here, but I expect the Enan will be the first of many shelters coming out with the Kerlon 600 fabric. Imagine a freestanding 1P based on the Unna at 3lb, a freestanding 2P based on the Allak at 4.5lb... This could be a game changer for the Swedes. If they can get prices that work for us tight fisted North Americans.

In the meantime, I'm looking forward to learning more about the Enan this spring. Yes, $625 is a lot of cash for a 1P. But my weekly grocery bill for a family of three is about 1/3 of that. So maybe just maybe it's no longer insanely expensive. Perhaps our expectations haven't kept pace with the cost of making things well.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: One Hillie to rule them all on 02/23/2015 07:24:40 MST Print View

Stuart,

Yes, a 3-lb Unna would be great! Hilleberg prices don't bother me too much really, just the weight.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Re: One Hillie to rule them all on 02/23/2015 08:42:30 MST Print View

I feel the same as you Doug on the weight, thats why I preordered the Enan.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: Re: Re: One Hillie to rule them all on 02/23/2015 08:56:36 MST Print View

"I feel the same as you Doug on the weight, thats why I preordered the Enan."

I hear ya, but the Enan wouldn't work well for me - simply too small for me, I like my space. The Unna would be perfect!

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
nm on 02/23/2015 09:03:26 MST Print View

nm

Edited by stephenm on 03/05/2015 08:43:52 MST.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: One Hillie to rule them all on 02/23/2015 09:12:31 MST Print View

"The Anjan 2 could be a good option also."

It would be too much of a compromise for me. Don't get me wrong, all good tents. But the Unna checks off every box, instead of a just a few, except for the weight, for a good winter shelter. I may just buy it anyway, a couple of pounds isn't all that much in the grand scheme of things! :-)

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Enan video on 02/27/2015 16:24:34 MST Print View

Here is a very good video of the Enan that was posted on YouTube a few days ago.

Just found out today that my one will be shipping next week.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH17LgwQ8Eo

Kevin Buggie
(kbuggie)

Locale: NW New Mexico
Enan and the strong dollar? on 02/27/2015 16:41:45 MST Print View

$625 is in the realm of an HMG ultamid! Yikes!!

Price aside, I'm really drawn to the Enan (TT moment) because in my winter conditions staking is always a pain and these tent designs allow you to get away with only needing two really good anchor/staking points at either end. Mid panel side stakes next to the crossing pole would be used but not critical with good wind alignment.

So, my question: Is the $625 the price from an importer in the U.S? And could it be cheaper for us Yankees to exploit our strong dollar and order direct from the continent? If so any idea ofor price?

Also, does the Enan have the second longitudinal pole option like the TT Moment?

Well since I wandered in here, do you guys think Hillerberg paid Tarptent for intellectual property rights or anything with this clone tent design?

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
nm on 02/27/2015 16:48:23 MST Print View

Nm

Edited by stephenm on 03/05/2015 08:15:45 MST.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Enan and the strong dollar? on 02/27/2015 17:03:13 MST Print View

nm

Edited by stephenm on 03/04/2015 16:03:15 MST.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Enan and the strong dollar? on 02/27/2015 17:06:23 MST Print View

nm

Edited by stephenm on 03/04/2015 16:04:03 MST.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
nm on 02/27/2015 17:17:56 MST Print View

nm

Edited by stephenm on 03/04/2015 16:04:33 MST.

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Re: Re: Enan and the strong dollar? on 02/27/2015 17:24:40 MST Print View

nm

Edited by FamilyGuy on 03/05/2015 12:20:45 MST.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
nm on 02/27/2015 17:35:30 MST Print View

nm

Edited by stephenm on 03/04/2015 16:05:05 MST.

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Enan and the strong dollar? on 02/27/2015 18:52:35 MST Print View

nm

Edited by FamilyGuy on 03/15/2015 11:45:40 MDT.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
nm on 02/27/2015 20:09:19 MST Print View

nm

Edited by stephenm on 03/04/2015 16:06:22 MST.

Derek Weeks
(Lighting12) - MLife
Question about changing out cord on 02/28/2015 12:26:50 MST Print View

So I was windering about changing out the cord on my Hillerberg to Lawson reflective Glowire is there any disadvantages compared to Hillerberg cord? Reason for changing is wanting a more reflective cord for my son while playing at night is not tripping on them and I also like more of a reflective cord then Hilleberg uses.

Lawson reflective Glowire
Diameter: 3mm (1/8"), Weight: 3.75oz /106 grams per 50', Break Strength: 400Lbs

I tried lineLoc with Lawson Glowire and they seam to work.

Thanks!

Edited by Lighting12 on 02/28/2015 14:17:10 MST.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
nm on 02/28/2015 17:22:39 MST Print View

nm

Edited by stephenm on 03/04/2015 16:06:54 MST.

Derek Weeks
(Lighting12) - MLife
Re: Re: Question about changing out cord on 02/28/2015 22:31:53 MST Print View

My family and I are loving the Kaitum it's a perfect match for us...thanks!

Yeah, the Lawson cord may be a little slicker, but it's not as slick as the Iron wire and the Glow wire seems to hold in the Linlocks. I'm taking it out this week and will see if the cord and Linlocks holdup.

Thanks Stephen!

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Cordage on 02/28/2015 23:12:03 MST Print View

Now Lawson offers his cord in 3mm i say it's worth a try. 2mm cord was definitely too narrow for Hillie's linelocks.

You may want to keep the stock cord for the end guy lines- at least on a trial basis- as in most conditions those are the ones that are most critical to keeping a tunnel tent upright. If you don't get any slippage on the lateral guy lines, then try swapping everyone out, but take some of the Hillie cord along just in case.

A couple of years ago I was using a cuben SoloMid with aftermarket cordage. In consistent winds it held fine, but when the gusts came in and battered the head end, it kept collapsing on me until I tied additional knots in the cord so it couldn't slip.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
nm on 03/01/2015 06:25:47 MST Print View

nm

Edited by stephenm on 03/04/2015 16:07:31 MST.

Logan Terry
(LTT777) - F
grrrr.... on 03/01/2015 09:09:37 MST Print View

I was really starting to think I was going to make it through my entire backpacking career without catching the Hilleberg bug and then Stephen has to start going off about the Enan :) Damn you!

In seriousness I really like the look of it and I want one despite having a difficult time justifying the price currently. However I am contemplating a move to Michigan for work so I could see the Enan making its way into arsenal for the 3 seasons of winter they have up there.

Stephen I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts when you get it!

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Re: Re: Cordage on 03/01/2015 10:42:23 MST Print View

That should have been a straightforward trip, Stephen, but mother nature had other plans. I think we both learned a lot. That Southern Sun screwed up your consolation burger afterwards was pretty much in line with everything else on that trip.

Like others, I'm very interested to hear your thoughts about the Enan once you receive it. For all the product testing that Hilleberg have put into it, there's very little information available in the public domain today. The video from Cotswold Outdoor shows how easy it is to pitch - more so than the Akto. I'm pleased to see that Hilleberg reverted back to the pole cups found on the Red and Black Series tents - I wasn't a fan of the grommet setup on the Anjan and Rogen. We'll see if the lack of a roof vent makes a difference in reality. That new shade of green seems very dark though. I couldn't see myself using one without the yellow inner to cheer it up.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
nm on 03/01/2015 12:39:27 MST Print View

nm

Edited by stephenm on 03/04/2015 16:08:08 MST.

Derek Weeks
(Lighting12) - MLife
Re: Cordage on 03/01/2015 13:55:32 MST Print View

Great idea about keeping some of the old cord just incase. I did change it all out, but will keep extra in the stuff sack. I had planned on keeping the Hilleberg cord anyways.


Thanks agin!!

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: Re: Re: Cordage on 03/01/2015 16:51:47 MST Print View

"I too am looking forward to the Enan, I will reserve judgment until it's has seen rigorous basement testing, as won't pitch it outside until I am sure it's a keeper."

I guess I just don't see what the Enan offers that the Moment DW doesn't. The Moment DW is not only less than half the price, it has 3" more headroom, and with a crossing pole you can make it freestanding.

I still wish they made the Unna about a pound and a half lighter! :-)

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
nm on 03/01/2015 17:19:00 MST Print View

nm

Edited by stephenm on 03/04/2015 16:05:52 MST.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Cordage on 03/01/2015 17:22:12 MST Print View

"I tested out the Moment DW Doug and found the inner too small (same with the Notch)
I might have the same issue with the Enan."

I'd be surprised if you don't, since it seems to have about the same specs as the Moment DW, with the DW being taller and, if I remember correctly, an inch wider at its widest point.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Cordage on 03/01/2015 17:29:18 MST Print View

nm

Edited by stephenm on 03/04/2015 16:02:44 MST.

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Lightweight on 03/01/2015 20:45:37 MST Print View

I'll be interested to read the Enan reviews. I doubt it would sway me from an Akto or Unna, but I'm curious about the Enan materials and longevity. To me, the #1 most important aspect of Hilleberg tents are their durability. Second would be a close tie of livability and ease of use. As Hilleberg continue to go lighter and lighter in materials, to get into the UL market, I just hope their durability doesn't take to big a hit.

I have no problem buying a BA Copper Spur, or similar, if I want light weight and am not concerned about materials lasting a long time. But if I don't want to stress over dog claws or setting up on granite without a footprint, I reach for a Hilleberg. I hope their new light tents can at least somewhat live up to that.

Nic Gross
(NTTF) - M

Locale: Subarctic
Staika on 03/13/2015 05:12:30 MDT Print View

I just picked up a tan Staika.

In regards to facing into the wind, the tunnel tents look straight forward. Does it really matter that much with the domes? The ends look a little stronger than the sides, but I haven't had it out in strong wind yet. Any experience with this?

I'm excited to hear that Hilleberg is coming out with a mesh inner for the Staika sometime soon.

I'm also interested to hear how the Enan works out. I wonder if changing out some of the accessories could drop it below 2 pounds.

Doug Smith
(Jedi5150) - F

Locale: Central CA
Re: Staika on 03/14/2015 11:56:37 MDT Print View

I could be wrong, but I'd guess out of their entire line-up, your Staika is one of the few tents that matter least how you have it facing. Just from photos alone, it appears very well designs from getting strong winds from any direction.

Charles Jennings
(vigilguy) - F - M

Locale: Northern Utah
Hilleberg Enan on 03/14/2015 22:17:52 MDT Print View

Disclaimer: I am an authorized Hilleberg Retailer.


Stephen should have the Enan in his possession by now, along with a couple of other customers of mine, who are headed to Patagonia with their new Enans, incidently. I am anxious to hear how they fared with the Enan in those conditions.

I purchased a green one for myself. One thing that I have noticed is the the green has changed to a dark green, almost black. I like it because it is quite stealthy.

Another thing I noticed about the Enan is it is a heck of a lot easier and faster to set up than the Akto. I never could get a good taut pitch without wrinkles when setting up the Akto.

I am 6'1" and the Enan has plenty of length for me. I plan on using it above treeline in the Winds, also in the Uintas.

I appreciate that the outer fabric goes all the way to the ground, so that when the driving rains occur, the inner will stay dry. When guyed out on the sides, the Enan seems quite stable.

Yes Hilleberg dropped the weight by going to Kerlon 600 (incidentally, is very expensive to make, according to Petra), thus, the $625 price tag.

It will be my go-to solo shelter. I like the light-weight and the small package, but it possesses the Hilleberg standard of durability.

David .
(SirBC) - M
Re: Hilleberg Enan on 03/15/2015 21:34:44 MDT Print View

Thanks Charles for the quick shipping. Looking forward to using the Enan in Patagoina where I expect we will have some high winds at times. I will definitely report back.

Richie S
(LandRover) - F
Enan on 03/18/2015 15:47:21 MDT Print View

Ok, I pulled the trigger on an Enan - just some early playing around this afternoon ahead of a trip next month. 2llb 7oz on the scale, but that includes manual and all sorts of other bits of paperwork.

Replacing the tent, pole and stake bags, removing the pole splint and chancing up the pegs for wire Ti stakes takes it down to 2llb 4oz.

Talking of which, what's the opinion on taking the pole repair splint along with you? I typically don't for short trips where I could easily walk out if I had to.

Eric Blumensaadt
(Danepacker) - MLife

Locale: Mojave Desert
FYI on 3/19/'15 on 03/19/2015 15:51:58 MDT Print View

Camp Saver has a lot of Hilleberg tents listed. I dunno if they are on sale but likely so if they are on that site.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Re: FYI on 3/19/'15 on 03/19/2015 16:46:50 MDT Print View

Prices for Hilleberg on Campsaver are not discounted. That would be a breach of the distributor agreement. Similarly, Hilleberg is excluded from their 20% off sale.

r m
(rm) - M
Re: Enan on 03/19/2015 18:22:51 MDT Print View

Last year on a snow camping trip I somehow lost a pole. Either I had never took it with me, or it had slid away. It was one of the two more important ones in a jannu. So we pitched under a tree branch, stuck some tall sticks in the snow and tied the guy lines to which ever gave the best angle. Inside it was fine.

Another time years ago I had forgotten to pack the pole for a single pole fin style tent, running a rope above the tent I tied the the guy lines along the top ridge to the rope.

Now that I think about it, I might stop bringing at least some of the repair kit (iirc I have two sleeves.

Richie S
(LandRover) - F
Repair on 03/19/2015 19:05:32 MDT Print View

My line of thinking it's that I could probably muster enough of a temporary repair with the rest of my gear to cover me through a night. I suppose it's worth taking along on an expedition.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Enan on 05/03/2015 19:18:53 MDT Print View

1

2
3

Edited by stephenm on 05/03/2015 19:25:01 MDT.

Charles Jennings
(vigilguy) - F - M

Locale: Northern Utah
Enan thoughts on 05/03/2015 19:29:07 MDT Print View

Stephen- thanks for the Enan photos.
What are your impressions of this solo tent?
Likes? Dislikes?

Tipi Walter
(TipiWalter) - F
Hilleberg on 05/03/2015 19:52:48 MDT Print View

I just spent 18 days in a Hilleberg Akto on a long backpacking trip and it has many advantages over my larger Hillebergs---except one---it leaks badly. This is from the trail journals when I first discovered the leak (I was in the tail-end of a 160 hour rainstorm)---

"One leak is thru the sewn fly vent zipper seam and another is thru the fold back fly door elastic tab. If the dang vesti isn't small enough now I have to make room for 2 water leaks inside. Of course I never seam sealed this tent with silnet so screw me. I may have silnet with me or maybe not. I shouldn't need it. Don't buy the Hilleberg hype---seal your Hilleberg tent before use. I hope I brought some silnet. At least the inner yellow tent is drip free. Once this tent dries I'll liberally slather on the silicone goop. These sew holes are easy to fix but at the cost Hilleberg charges all such seams and tabs should be hand sealed at the factory. Do they? Hell no."

"Their mantra is "our tents don't need to be seam sealed". They are wrong. How can tent experts on their own tents be so wrong? Because they never used them nonstop for 8 days in a 125 hour rainstorm."

Akto Ike Branch

Here's the Akto in action on the BMT in Wild Bird Camp.

Leak 1

The first leak developed inside the fly where the door hold-back elastic tab is sewn thru the fly. It definitely needs silnet.

leak 2

The second leak happened on the inside fly vent zipper seam.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Enan thoughts on 05/04/2015 09:39:57 MDT Print View

Hi Charlie,

It was my first tie using it this last weekend, it pitches very quickly and has plenty of space, weather was nice so no wind or rain test.

Charles Jennings
(vigilguy) - F - M

Locale: Northern Utah
Atko on 05/04/2015 15:34:19 MDT Print View

After 160 hours of rain, I am not surprised at all that you experienced dripping from either condensation or a sewn-through point in the vestibule. With that much rain, you must have had a lot of condensation in the vestibule!

Hilleberg minimizes the amount of attach points (for convenience) to roll up and contain the vestibule door due to points where condensation can "gather", or even leak through in a prolonged rain storm like you experienced. Sil-net should do the trick.

Did you experience any leakage inside the tent where you were sleeping?

Tipi Walter
(TipiWalter) - F
Akto Leaks on 05/05/2015 07:52:50 MDT Print View

Thankfully no inner tent canopy leaks occurred with the Akto, and I usually carry a small tube of silnet to fix small holes and leaks in the field. Plus, I usually liberally seam seal my Hilleberg tents when new, I just didn't think to seal the Akto.

And no, these leaks were in no way related to condensation issues. The harder it rained, the more water drips came thru the two sew points.

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Akto Leaks on 05/09/2015 11:45:30 MDT Print View

Hilleberg should stick to what they know. $625 for a leaky lightweight tent. What garbage.

I have backpacked for days on the "Wet" Coast of Vancouver Island in a Tarptent and a MLD Mid with never once a leak. Ever.

Tipi - you should be sending this tent back for a refund.

Matt Dirksen
(NamelessWay) - MLife

Locale: Mid Atlantic
Re: Akto Leaks on 05/10/2015 07:44:10 MDT Print View

Send your pics to Hilleberg and ask them what the next step should be. Let them know you have direct experience with their tents, and have never experienced this before.

If Hilleberg tents don't need seam sealing, then they don't, period. My hope would be they will immediately mail you a new one, and trust you will mail back the old one (or at least the fly.)

While Silnet might alleviate the "symptom" it will not address the problem. I suspect that Hilleberg might do much more than tape the inside surface of a seam, in order to make it waterproof. They may insert tape between the seams, or between the attachment loop and the fly. They might even use hydrophilic thread, similar to what Moss tents used back in the 80's/90's, years before seam tape. I suspect that someone might have missed a step when assembling your tent.

Good to hear it didn't leak anywhere else, but who knows, the next time you use it, it just might.

Tipi Walter
(TipiWalter) - F
Hilleberg Sealing on 05/10/2015 07:59:57 MDT Print View

The usual Hilleberg hype is "Our tents don't need to be seam sealed." They are wrong. After having used several Hillebergs in the last 10 years---extensively---it's important for the newb to know that these tents must be seam sealed, preferably at home in the backyard when the tent is new and not in the field during a trip.

I follow this rule with every new Hilleberg EXCEPT I didn't with the Akto so I screwed myself. And no, the tent doesn't need to be sent back, otherwise I would have sent back all my Hilleberg tents as all of them leak on occasion w/o sealing. McNett's silnet is a wonder tool and will fix the Akto because silnet adheres perfectly to Kerlon.

The rule is---seam seal your Hilleberg when new!! Use McNett's seam grip on the urethane floors and silnet on the kerlon flies.

keron seal
When I got my new Keron I set up just the fly and seam sealed the outside hoops and especially the inside hoops.

floor
And all Hilleberg floors need to be seam sealed as show here with the Keron inner tent. Especially seal the four sewn corners.

Richie S
(LandRover) - F
Re: Hilleberg Sealing on 05/10/2015 08:58:12 MDT Print View

I've always worked on the basis that ALL tents need sealing no matter what they said. It's so easy and cheap it makes no sense to test the claims rather than remaining dry.

It is also easier to do it than go through the process of changing in my book and gives you confidence its dry.

Matt Dirksen
(NamelessWay) - MLife

Locale: Mid Atlantic
Re: Re: Hilleberg Sealing on 05/10/2015 09:11:38 MDT Print View

While seam sealing is a simple way to instill a good piece of mind...

If a manufacturer legitimately claims their tent doesn't need seam sealing, then they don't.

If they actually recommend seam sealing in their instructions, then they need seam sealing, regardless of hype.

While I don't have personal experience with Hilleberg tents, I have extensive experience with Moss tents, which claimed they didn't need seam sealing, due to how they were sewn. They were (almost) right, until up until about a year or two ago when I needed to finally seam seal them.

After 20 years of regular use.

KEN LARSON
(KENLARSON) - MLife

Locale: Western Michigan
What Shall I Do? on 05/10/2015 09:26:41 MDT Print View

I believe Matt has the best answer to this issue....

"Send your pics to Hilleberg and ask them what the next step should be. Let them know you have direct experience with their tents, and have never experienced this before."

Greg Mihalik
(greg23) - M

Locale: Colorado
Re: What Shall I Do? on 05/10/2015 10:06:31 MDT Print View

Read the Fine Print ...

From the FAQ -

Do I need to seal the seams on my new tent?

You do not need to seam seal our tents as we use a stitching method that makes the seams really strong and durable. We use a flat fell-seam in all our tents and our sewing machines employ cooling jets around the needles. This means that every stitch goes through four layers of fabric and the size of the hole is minimized by preventing heat-producing friction. The end result is a very precise, very reliable seam that has remarkable durability and water resistance. [sic, emphasis added]


So, you don't have to seam seal.... unless it leaks. Clever.

Edited by greg23 on 05/10/2015 10:08:58 MDT.

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Re: Re: Hilleberg Sealing on 05/10/2015 11:59:33 MDT Print View

Constant rain lasting more than a hundred hours must be beyond a typical rain event most anywhere

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Re: Re: Re: Hilleberg Sealing on 05/12/2015 09:58:48 MDT Print View

"Constant rain lasting more than a hundred hours must be beyond a typical rain event most anywhere"

Vancouver Island. Pick a month. Never had a Tarptent leak in those conditions. Of course, it was seam sealed and a third of the price of this Akto. As Greg points out - a little disingenuous by Hilleberg in their marketing material.

Christopher Chupka
(FatTexan) - M

Locale: NTX
Ordered an Enan on 05/12/2015 11:15:54 MDT Print View

I ordered an Enan off the Hilleberg USA website:

http://us.hilleberg.com/products/specialOffers.php

I purchased the "prototype generation 2", $345 shipped. I emailed Hilleberg USA and asked about stakes, stuff sacks, warranty, etc and all is included with the Special Offer tents. Looks like they have a Gen 1 prototype left in green and red. Free shipping and stickers in the USA!

They also have an Anjan 2 display model down to $567.

I'll post some pics and see if I can identify any prototype differences when I receive my tent.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Enan prototype on 05/12/2015 11:47:08 MDT Print View

Chris - did Hilleberg explain the differences between prototype versions 1 and 2, and the production model? I noticed that the main difference in dimensions between last summer's announcement and the 2015 Handbook is in the depth of the vestibule. The production version seems to be about 15cm / 6" deeper at the center pole.

Dimensions published July 2014:

Dimensions July 2014

Dimensions published March 2015:

Dimensions March 2015

Edited by lotuseater on 05/12/2015 11:49:41 MDT.

Christopher Chupka
(FatTexan) - M

Locale: NTX
Questions I should have asked on 05/12/2015 11:51:58 MDT Print View

Stuart,
I dorked out when I saw the price and ordered the tent, even without the wife's permission. If vestibule is to small, hopefully it isn't, I can return it.

But if the vestibule is still only 6" smaller that's enough for a pack, boots/shoes, etc.

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Re: Questions I should have asked on 05/12/2015 14:05:14 MDT Print View

Regardless, Chris, it's a great price, and a nice heads-up to others. I wouldn't have thought about checking the Special Offers page for the Enan.

Getting the prototype v2 means it's probably closer to the production version. There's a detailed write-up on the Enan over on trailspace. More of a blow-by-blow product overview than a review per se, but it answers a lot of the questions I had about the differences vs the Akto.

http://www.trailspace.com/gear/hilleberg/enan/

Christopher Chupka
(FatTexan) - M

Locale: NTX
Proto Difference on 05/12/2015 22:36:51 MDT Print View

This is the Hilleberg USA response;

The Gen 1 type Enan has an Aquaguard zipper and a different fabric on the ends that is a bit less breathable than the production model.
The Gen 2 type has the same type of fabric on the ends but it has the same zipper and zipper flap as our production model.

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Re: Proto Difference on 05/13/2015 14:09:55 MDT Print View

man, i so want a Hilleberg.

I have absolutely no use for one. I'd set it up in the backyard and use it as a fort.

But I want one.

Doug I.
(idester) - MLife

Locale: MidAtlantic
Re: Re: Proto Difference on 05/13/2015 14:49:10 MDT Print View

"I'd set it up in the backyard and use it as a fort. "

Don't be silly. If you're going to have a fort in your backyard, then have a fricking fort for crying out loud!

fort

Jennifer Mitol
(Jenmitol) - M

Locale: In my dreams....
Re: Re: Re: Proto Difference on 05/13/2015 15:15:46 MDT Print View

I WANT THAT!!!!

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Re: Re: Re: Proto Difference on 05/13/2015 16:27:31 MDT Print View

Jen,

You should purchase an Enan.

1

Stuart .
(lotuseater) - M

Locale: Colorado Foothills
Re: I want that on 05/13/2015 21:32:40 MDT Print View

I'm not sure even Dan McHale could craft you a backpack to handle that fort, Jen.

I had a look at an Enan next to an Akto the other day. I did not like the sticker shock, but I did like the design changes between the two. Especially given that Hilleberg downgraded the pole setup for the Anjan and Rogen a few years ago - they returned to what works well for the rest of the range when they designed the Enan.

The rectangular ends of the Akto were a pain to pitch well. The triangular ends of the Enan are much more intuitive, and the higher peak at the ends makes for a lot of usable space. The mesh used is unlike anything I've seen before. Dare I say "snag-proof"? The inner felt so much less claustrophobic than the Akto's, thanks to that mesh door. And the shape of the door itself seems more useful than the Akto's.

I hope to try one out this summer.

Ken T.
(kthompson) - MLife

Locale: Behind the Redwood Curtain
Re: Hilleberg Sealing on 05/13/2015 21:37:18 MDT Print View

I said most for a reason Dave. Don't call it Fungus Corners for nothing.

Charles Jennings
(vigilguy) - F - M

Locale: Northern Utah
Enan on 05/14/2015 17:12:01 MDT Print View

I choked at the price of the Enan when I saw it. I asked Petra about it, and she told me that the Kerlon 600 is harder to make and harder to sew. Apparently they pay more for the Kerlon 600 from their suppliers.

I too like the triangular shape of the Enan, more so than the Akto. it was a pain for me as well to set up the Akto without wrinkles in the fabric. The Enan sets up really quickly and easily. I love the weight of it and the small packaged size. Plus, I like the door of the inner with more screen.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Enan on 05/14/2015 18:39:49 MDT Print View

Hi Charlie,

I have never pitched the Atko but have seen plenty in the field, for me I was able to get a perfect pitch with the Enan in a couple of minutes.

This is definitely a keeper.

I wonder will they be developing other tents with the 600 material, that should bring their costs down due to economy of scale, I am really happy with my Anjan 3GT and Keron 4 GT but would like to see a lighter solo winter tent. Around here we get too much snow to use the Enan in deep winter.

Jeff Doshi
(jsdoshi) - MLife
Footprint for Enan? on 05/21/2015 22:13:55 MDT Print View

For those who own the Enan, did you go w/ a footprint of any type? I have never used a footprint, but with such an expensive tent am tempted to protect my investment. It kills the weight equation though...

Charles Jennings
(vigilguy) - F - M

Locale: Northern Utah
Enan Footprint on 05/22/2015 06:30:25 MDT Print View

I use the Akto footprint to keep the tent clean and to have coverage inside the vestibule. It fits perfectly. Bear in mind that all Hilleberg tents, including the Enan, uses a very robust fabric on the floor. It is not a delicate fabric at all. Yes, there is a weight penalty, as a trade-off, but I prefer a tougher floor fabric on my tents.

Edited by vigilguy on 05/22/2015 06:32:22 MDT.

Stephen M
(stephenm) - MLife

Locale: Mind your own business
Re: Footprint for Enan? on 05/22/2015 09:31:17 MDT Print View

I was going to cut a footprint for my Enan out of Tyvek.

Family Guy
(FamilyGuy) - F

Locale: Up there
Re: Re: Footprint for Enan? on 05/22/2015 13:12:49 MDT Print View

The best 4x4 trucks have mud on them. Shows they are being used for their intended purpose. Thankfully a good wash and as good as new.

It's just a tent. Wash it when you get home. ;)