Zion Nat'l Park Traverse 2012, aka "The Trans-Zion", BPL Group Run-Round #2
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Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Zion on 07/19/2012 20:18:18 MDT Print View

Not trying to psyche anyone out, just being realistic about this run and some possible differences between it and a R2R2R...just some food for thought for those considering it.

From what I've looked at on maps, it strikes me that you better be a bit more on your game on this one. You can't get lost on a R2R2R and you have anywhere in the first 20 miles to turn back if you're not feeling it. With the TZ being point to point, you sort of have to finish the whole enchilada, or at minimum make it 50K to the Grotto. In addition, while it's a marked trail system, there are FAR more opportunities to make a wrong turn or take a side canyon. I also suspect there's less human traffic than in the canyon in many spots. Due to likely having to shuttle all the way to Lee's Pass on the morning of the run, we might have to start later, basically guaranteeing the back of the packer's will be out well past dark.

Despite our crazy weather on the R2R2R, it seems a good mapset/navigation tools (which I didn't even carry in the canyon) and emergency kit are far more necessary on this one.

If you haven't already checked it out, Skurka has a great mapset ready to download for this route- only drawback for me is that it doesn't include UTM coordinates. I'd likely want to carry a simple GPS on this run just in case.

Edited by xnomanx on 07/19/2012 20:25:12 MDT.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
water on 07/19/2012 20:30:52 MDT Print View

we'll want to research the water situation pretty thoroughly as well- no man made pumps here :)

Eugene- when you get a chance, might want to update your first post w/ the date, danke

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: water on 07/19/2012 22:05:19 MDT Print View

Again, Skurka put some good information together there...

http://andrewskurka.com/wp-content/uploads/zion-databook.pdf

His databook combined with his map pack is great; his maps are annotated with water sources and mileage markers. Gonna go down to my printers and make some copies.

Edited by xnomanx on 07/19/2012 22:09:09 MDT.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: Re: water on 07/20/2012 06:53:38 MDT Print View

Craig- good stuff :) I do wonder if his water sources hold true in late October, I know that in more arid areas Spring sources don't always equate to reliable Fall sources. Might not hurt to bounce some of the more questionable sources by one of the local rangers as we get a little closer.

from that pdf if everything is flowing looks like water ~ every 5-7 miles, w/ the exception of Beatty Spring till the next water source which is 12 miles- although he makes note that it is FAIRLY reliable :)

Mike

Kevin Haley
(landtrunsea) - F
Im very interested on 08/07/2012 06:15:25 MDT Print View

I will be out in Utah and Arizona for the week prior to the Oct. 27th date. I have been training for either Trans Zion or a R2R2R during that week, and think I would enjoy doing this with other people.

What kind of total time should be anticipated for Trans Zion?

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
Re: Im very interested on 08/07/2012 06:52:21 MDT Print View

Kevin, glad you're interested, hope you can make it out with us.

Regarding time? I'm expecting to be out on my feet for at least 12hrs, probably closer to 13hrs. This is all based on pure conjecture having looked at the Zion traverse map and knowing my slow pace over this distance.

Every runner is going to have highs and lows throughout the day and come into this with varying levels of fitness and experience, so I imagine individual times will run the gamut as they did this past April for our R2R2R.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
light on 08/07/2012 16:48:31 MDT Print View

looks like we'll have roughly 10.5 hrs of light at the end of October, a good lamp is going to be a must (unless your really fast :))

Kevin Haley
(landtrunsea) - F
Re: Re: Im very interested on 08/08/2012 12:17:00 MDT Print View

Thanks for the feedback... I am attempting a 26 mile trail run/hike in the Adirondacks this weekend, weather permitting. That should give me a good gauge of my pace. Although the ADK's aren't like a lot of the parks out west with "runnable/joggable" trail, some will be and I can power-hike the rest.

Link .
(annapurna) - MLife
Re: Zion Nat'l Park Traverse 2012, aka "The Trans-Zion", BPL Group Run-Round #2 on 08/10/2012 14:27:49 MDT Print View

.

Edited by annapurna on 08/13/2012 12:37:57 MDT.

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
Re: Re: Zion Nat'l Park Traverse 2012, aka "The Trans-Zion", BPL Group Run-Round #2 on 08/13/2012 12:22:31 MDT Print View

Bump.

I have a small list of names from those who have expressed interest. Keep em coming.

Anyone care to throw in ideas for shuttling?

Im going to call "El Wisner" this evening to mull over the vehicle situation.

Also.... How are those runs going?

I'm feeling the urgency now and the 90-100f heat we've had the last two months or so is losing steam.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: Re: Re: Zion Nat'l Park Traverse 2012, aka "The Trans-Zion", BPL Group Run-Round #2 on 08/13/2012 12:36:55 MDT Print View

Eugene- I'll have a little better idea as we get closer, but if I bail at the Grotto- I could grab a vehicle and pick up at least some of the crew

I'll likely be driving this time, so I'll have a vehicle available that can probably haul 5 semi-comfortably

I completed the Bridger Ridge run this last weekend, it's really hard to put into words how brutal this was :) but my conditioning is above where it was on our R2R2R adventure because of it

Mike

Photobucket

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
Re: Re: Re: Re: Zion Nat'l Park Traverse 2012, aka "The Trans-Zion", BPL Group Run-Round #2 on 08/13/2012 12:42:57 MDT Print View

Yes!

Look at that guy!


Great photo Mike and nice run. I will be trying to keep up with you.

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Zion Nat'l Park Traverse 2012, aka "The Trans-Zion", BPL Group Run-Round #2 on 08/13/2012 12:52:05 MDT Print View

Uh Oh, look at the quads on that dude...

Congrats Mike, looking forward to running again.

I was just in southwest Utah for a few weeks and had time to check out some of the Zion trailheads and talk to backcountry rangers. It seems we might need quite a few cars out there....I'll post all the possible details after talking to Eugene later.

Edited by xnomanx on 08/13/2012 13:09:40 MDT.

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Zion Nat'l Park Traverse 2012, aka "The Trans-Zion", BPL Group Run-Round #2 on 08/13/2012 13:18:53 MDT Print View

Great job Mike ... you look strong.

Since I'm about 50-50 on this one I won't get involved in the planning. Whatever you all come up with is fine. I'll be in shape, just a matter if I can make it.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: Re: Zion Nat'l Park Traverse 2012, aka "The Trans-Zion", BPL Group Run-Round #2 on 08/13/2012 17:15:58 MDT Print View

much thanks gents! I can tell you that the last 3 miles of the course drops 3000' and when I got to the finish line it turns out someone had completely stolen my quads :)

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
shuttle service on 08/15/2012 07:52:47 MDT Print View

I noticed there are several shuttle services in the area, I'll see if they would be interested in an early pickup- most of the schedules they show are too late for our use; w/ 6-8 (more??) it might be pretty reasonable???

Craig W.
(xnomanx) - F - M
Re: shuttle service on 08/15/2012 09:50:39 MDT Print View

The basic issues I saw/questions I have are these:

**If we run from Lee's Pass to East rim (as discussed)...the trail finishes a long way from the campground and pedestrians/bikes are not allowed through the tunnel on the road to get back. There is, however, plenty of space to leave cars at the East Rim trailhead. Problem here, is who is going to wait for everyone? It's a comfortable enough spot, has a picnic table...but there could be many hours difference between the first and last finishers. Seems we need a few cars there for different finish times?

**If someone bails at the Grotto or Weeping Rock, down in the canyon, how could it be communicated to everyone waiting at East Rim? Unless a car is left at Weeping Rock or the Grotto overnight (which I'm not sure is allowed), it's still a good walk back to camp. Not sure it would save too much distance.

**There is a private campground up on the rim at the east entrance of the park. I checked...it's exactly one mile from the East Rim trailhead. That could be a good option to stay at because finishers could filter back to camp at their own pace. Only issue there: it eliminates being able to bail at Grotto or Weeping Rock unless a car was left there.

**A lot of this seems it might depend on a final headcount and how many cars we have.

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
camp spot on 08/15/2012 12:53:43 MDT Print View

Craig- where is the camp spot in the park that we are thinking about currently?

I emailed a couple of the shuttle services to see if they would even entertain an early shuttle. I'll post up when I find anything out.

MIke

Art ...
(asandh) - F
Re: Zion Nat'l Park Traverse 2012, aka "The Trans-Zion", BPL Group Run-Round #2 on 08/15/2012 13:09:50 MDT Print View

a couple quick questions on the route (I haven't taken a serious look yet so may sound dumb).

1. Is the entire route on "offical" park trail or is some of it quasi cross country?

2. Is it one long trail, or a combination of several?

3. does anyone know the overall elevation gain of the route?

Mike M
(mtwarden) - MLife

Locale: Montana
Re: Re: Zion Nat'l Park Traverse 2012, aka "The Trans-Zion", BPL Group Run-Round #2 on 08/15/2012 16:30:20 MDT Print View

Art- it's official trail, several different trails, ~ 10,000' of gain (and roughly the same loss I believe)

MIke