History:

I have a WM summerlite and ultralite. Love the ultralite. I find the summerlite a bit tight in the lower leg region. If feet get cold I like to warm the cold foot on the other calve muscle but this is impossible in the summerlite. I also find that around 0C/32F degrees I get some cold spots in the hips regions. I attribute this to down shifting (continuous baffles and maybe a bit of underfill). Relative to my wife I am a warm sleeper. I generally have found that the MEC and WM bag ratings are conservative for me by a couple of degrees.

Context:

I backpack primarily in the Canadian Rockies. Usually trip length is from overnight to four nights. The climate is relatively dry however I have experienced of prolonged rain/sleet/snow that could last the duration of three to four day trip. I want an option that would cover the typical overnight lows that I experience in summer months: +5C/41F to -5C/23F at the coldest. I will take the ultralite when it is colder than -5.

My primary shelters are a MLD solomid and a Oware 9x9 pyramid.

I generally sleep in my hiking clothes. I generally take an Eddie Bauer down sweater or a Montbell thermawrap jacket. I have a balaclava (light/medium weight) and a mid-weight wool toque that I could use as headwear options.

Question:

I am going to sell my summerlite. What would you recommend I replace it with that would meet the criteria/conditions outlined above?

I am leaning towards a quilt option. I have not ruled out synthetic or down. The MLD spirit quilt interests me. I do not know if synthetic is worth considering.

Opinions based on experience would be greatly appreciated.

Jeff

Anybody?

I have an opinion but it is biased and self promoting so I keep it to myself.

-Tim

If you get cold with a summerlite at 0/32 then you will be cold with a 0/32 quilt, so I would just either use your summerlite at 0/32 conditions or get a Megalite. Or get a 40F quilt for mild conditions- like an enlightened eq. Quilt, or something less than 20oz synth or down

What pad system do you use, that is about as important as your sleeping bag or quilt......?

Edited by KalebC on 05/04/2012 22:01:05 MDT.

Thanks for the input. I have had "cold spots" with a summerlite. I have had heavier bags (650 fill power) rated to the same temperature rating and never had an issue. I believe there is not enough down in some of the baffles of the summerlite or the baffles are too large (depending on your perspective) and this is resulting in down shifting/cold spots. I have since read where others have had a similar experience with the summerlite.

Jeff

Tim

Please share your biased self promoting opinion. I was actually just browsing your website about fifteen minutes ago. Given my criteria, which of your quilts would you recommend?

Jeff

A quilt might be a good option but there are some things to consider. First a quilt is going to be a bit more drafty than a mummy bag. I solve this problem by using a bivy. Since I use a tarp a bivy plus a quilt is a good system for me. But if I didn't need the bivy it might not be such a good idea. For example my down quilt is 16.5 oz. With a bivy thats 23 oz of bedding. Not bad but I don't think thats much lighter than a good down mummy bag. So if I didn't need the bivy sack I'd be just as well off using a 23 oz mummy bag (actually that would probably be more warmth for the weight).

So to sum it up a quilt is efficient weight wises IF you need a bivy anyway. If you do not need a bivy you need to think about whether a quilt by itself will work well for you.

As far as specific quilts go I haven't tried teh MLD quilts but they seem to be good quility. There temperature ratings seem pretty honest compared to other brands I'ved used that were made with similar insulation.

Tim Marshell makes a variety of down and synthetic quilts. His cheap synthetic quilts are about the best deal I'm aware of (unless you make your own). He also makes some really light down quilts using cuban.

Edit - when I refered to Tim's "cheap" quilts I didn't meant to imply cheap quality! From all I hear they are good quality. But last I checked he was offering quilts made with affordable materials at competative prices.

Edited by Cameron on 05/04/2012 22:11:51 MDT.

I feel resistant to the concept of adding a bivy. The thought has crossed my mind but suddenly the weight penalty does not seem to make sense to me. Especially since I am generally using pyramid shelters that are pitched near or to the ground depending on the conditions.

Which quilt have you used?

Jeff

I really like quilts....especially for warmer weather conditions as you describe. They're just so much nicer to use (ingress/egress), non-constrictive and lighter. For deep winter use I would still use a bag to ensure there's 0 drafts. For 3 season use drafts have never been an issue unless using a very narrow quilt.

For your circumstances, I'd look at a quilt with ~9-11oz of high fill power (800-900) down. This should give you a temp rating around -3 C to 0 C (depending on girth etc) which should easily get you to -5 C when wearing the layers you describe. I'd go down over synthetic because it's lighter, lasts longer and packs much smaller.

I personally don't find it hard to keep a down quilt dry and I normally hike in fairly wet conditions (BC's Coastal Mtns, Vancouver Island). Down jackets can be a bit tricky to keep dry, but I store my down quilt in a waterproof roll top cuben sack so it stays dry in my pack and then it only comes out inside my shelter. There could be some loss in loft during long, wet trips, but for 3-4 day trips in the rockies you should normally be fine. I've done 6 days of rain in a row with my down quilt in the coastal mountains and I there wasn't a significant loss.

If you do get a quilt, make sure you don't a ridiculously narrow one. That's no fun and it's a poor way to save weight if you're up all night re-tucking it in around you.

EnLIGHTened Equipment has some really nice options for great prices. So does Zpacks if you want to go super light with the lightest fabrics (I really prefer the lightest fabrics). Ask Zpacks to omit the zipper (or just don't use it) and you've got a nice quilt. The Katabatic Palisade is a nice option.....maybe go with a wide one as Katabatic quilts are often said to be a smidge narrow.

Edited by dandydan on 05/04/2012 22:20:03 MDT.

i Live in AB and i used a Ultra 20 for everything. i just use a MB UL parka and down pants to add warmth. Im moving to Katbatic palisade or alsek.

I like to use a quilt - but in those temps I only use one with a MLD Superlight bivy (to help with drafts) as I also use a tarp (DuoMid or Grace Solo). I used a SoloMid / Bivy for my A.T thru and that worked great for the cooler weather in late March and April in GA. I do own the Alpinlite (the wider version of the Ultralite) and if you find it a bit cool -- why not just send it back to WM and have them add some overfill to the bag ? That's what I would do - I love my WM bags and use them for my winter / cold weather camping -- and then switch to synthetic sub 1 lb quilts for summer.

So are you sleeping on the ground with no pad at all or are you sleeping on top of 5 Exped downmats stacked on top of each other? Wondering why you would not address this factor?

Thanks Dan,

Very informative. Can you define "ridiculously narrow". I am 5'8 and 150 lbs.

Have you had any personal experience with the quilts you suggested?

Which quilts have you used?

Jeff

Good point.

I am sleeping on a prolite 3 full length. I use a MEC evaztazote "bivy pad" (5 mm) beneath it, partially for puncture resistance and because it allows me to inflate the pad such that it is more comfortable.

Jeff

I'm pretty sure a number of poeple here use quilts without bivys, I'm just not one of them. I think if my quilts were a bit wider they would work better without the bivy. I do like the fact that they are easier to get in and out of (nice in grizzly country). On warm nights a quilt loosly draped over you is a lot nicer than trying to open the side of a mummy bag and being cool on one side and hot on another side.

The point I was making earlier was don't go buy a quilt just because it looks light without considering other factors.

Has the Ultra 20 changed? Do you have a newer or older version. I seem to remember reading some posts where people grumbled that the newer Ultras were not like they use to be (increased weight? quality?). Whatever that means...

Where did you buy your ultra?

Jeff

Thanks Luke. I know I mentioned "cold spot" issues with my summerlite but cold generally isn't the problem. I actually have more issues managing over heating. Especially off the start of the night. I generally end up using my mummy bags as quilts for the better part of the night as I really do not care for the cool on one side and hot on the other phenomenon that you described.

Jeff

I also have an Ultra 20 which is an older version of the Golite Ultralite 800 Fill Three Season Quilt. The newer version is a bit heavier (23-26oz). I'm pretty sure this is the only reason people dislike it. You can get a three season quilt for 16 oz that is about as warm (although you'll pay a lot more for it). If your motivation for a quilt is to count grams the Ultra is a poor choice. But it sounds like you have other priorities so it might be a good choice.

If a 23oz quilt is okay with you I'd consider the Ultra or a Tim Marshell synthetic quilt. They will weigh about the same and the cost will not be radically different. Its a question of whether you want down or synthetic insulation.

Edited by Cameron on 05/04/2012 23:07:48 MDT.

The Ultra 20 circa 2009/2010 (roughly) used 9.5oz of down and quite light shell fabrics. This quilt was called the Ultra 20 and weighed about 19oz.

Around 2011, GoLite replaced it with the 'Ultralite 3+ Season Quilt' which was 24oz. This quilt used more down (12oz) but it also used heavier recycled fabrics, so the weight gain was split between the extra down and heavier fabrics. The extra down was needed to get it to a true 20F (-7 C) rating, while the heavier fabrics was a bit of a bummer unless you prefer recycled stuff (to me it's cool, but not worth the 10% weight gain).

They're both good quilts. The first one would be better for you, as you probably don't need 12oz of down and of course the first one is lighter.

I was using the GoLite Ultra 20 (19oz one) for a couple years and it was great, but eventually I decided to splurge on an even lighter quilt with the lightest fabrics (i.e 7D nylon) and best down (900FP) so I had a forum member (Billy Goat aka Virga Outdoors) make me one. This quilt uses 7.6oz of down, so it's rated to about +3 C, but I can take to about 0C with some down layers and I've even used it in a snow cave with good success in the winter with down pants/big down parka.

'Rediculously Narrow' is a bit tricky, as you can't just look at the widest point of a quilt... you really need to also look at the taper to see how it will fit. I find you need just as much girth around the hips as you do around the shoulders. My BillyGoat quilt is about 50-51" wide at the shoulders, but it doesn't taper until after the hips so you still have this much girth at the hips which is good. The Katabatic quilts are claimed a smidge wider at the shoulders (52") but they taper to just 42" at the hips, which I think it where the girth complaints come from (I haven't used one). I'm 5'11, 165 lbs and I find a quilt needs to be pretty darn close to 50" around the hips for me to be able to wrap up nicely in it. I'm often a side sleeper, which is where these girth requirements come in. If you're only a back sleeper then a regular Katabatic is likely fine....otherwise I'd only look at the 'wide' ones.

Zpacks quilts/bags are 56" at the shoulders and hips, so nice and generous for a quilt, but a bit tight if you have it zipped up into a bag. My internet is sucking right now, but I think EnLIGHTened Equipment/Tim Marshall has a few different options in this regard. Side sleepers will want decent girth, while back sleepers can get away with less.

Edited by dandydan on 05/04/2012 23:15:03 MDT.

At 5'8" you can sneak into my 5'6". If you mostly back sleep get the reg (52")if you mostly side sleep the wide (56"). If you will sleep at 30*f a lot get the 30* and expect to use your clothes when it dips colder. If 30* if the coldest you will see on rare occasion get 40*. If you don't want to rely on your clothes to close the gap add the overstuff.

As far as using the lightest materials goes. Our RevelationX isn't that, it exists to be the most attractive entry level quilt you can find. Our Revelation however uses 20d material (similar to nunatak, Katabatic, zpacks shell) not listed on the site is the fact that you can also get it in "8d" (10d fabric .69 oz). You can do 20d shell 8d liner ala zpacks or all 8d ala MLD (different fabrics but in same weight class). I need to get my site updated I know but you can do it by just letting me know what you want. We also have quilts coming as a collaborative effort with a few other companies that will use very light high performance fabrics. Trying hard to offer what people want on the entry level side as well as intermediate and advanced users, something for everyone is the goal

-Tim