>"You may not be familiar with the normal tiered vacation structure"

I was impressed when a friend returned from Australia to report that in one's first year, you got 4 weeks vacation, 12 or more paid holidays, a month of sick time and the Queens' birthday, National Kangaroo Day, your anniversary, plus tea time a few times a day. And that was for an entry level job like a clerk in a store. And it paid twice what it would have in the USA.

It seemed like having a job was a necessary evil, albeit not a huge inconvience, in order to get leave.

Okay, I may be overstating it a bit, but not by much. It really was about 3-4 times the level of a USA entry-level worker. And the pay was double.

In my mid 20's, I worked in a PBing store in the burbs. Most of the customers were middle managers and professionals who aspired to BP half of their alloted vacation time (i.e. one week a year) and many of their visits and minor purchases seemed mostly to be savoring that anticipated trip.

We staff on the other hand, usually took 3 and 4-day weekends to go do trips, took 2-3 weeks off several times a year, and also got paid or subsidized to lead 5-day ski and 9-day BP trips. The customers were envious but in a positive way. None told us we ought to settle down quickly, procreate, take out a mortgage and spend weekends fixing the roof.

Several were even explicit, "Keep doing what you're doing for a while. I've got money and a garage full of great toys and tools now, and no time to use them."

Gear? Screw gear. Hike around with a wool blanket and old external frame pack. Having gas money is 100 times more important.

sound post, kier.

I'm finding this an interesting post learning about USA leave entitlements etc so I thought I would clarify Australian holidays a bit more.
Essentially all fulltime Australian jobs get 4 weeks annual leave a year (actually 20 days with most jobs 5 days a week).
There are about 6 or 7 National public holidays (and if you have a week of your annual leave that includes one you only lose 4 days leave) and each state has a couple or more extra (some more than others - Melbourne city gets a day for a horse race).
Private business generally gets 3 months long service leave after 15 years employment. Commonwealth (Federal) public servants get the 3 months after 10 years and in my state at least (WA), state public servants get it after 7 years.
A lot of shiftworkers get 5 or 6 weeks a year (to compensate for working weekends) and we have an increasing amount of mine workers on rosters that involve 12 hour days on a x weeks on y weeks off rosters (typically 2 on, 1 off or 4 on, 2 off).
Sick leave entitlements are usually 2-3 weeks a year with up to 5 days (no more than 2 consecutively) not requiring a medical certificate for evidence. Most of those 5 days are remarkably prone to occur on Mondays.
HOWEVER, employers are increasingly (and not surprisingly) employing people as "casuals" on a long term basis. This involves a loading of 20-25% on standard wages and NO entitlement to leave of any kind except without pay.
We do call ourselves the "lucky country".
:-)

I work from home & I rarely leave my small mountain town. Pretty sure the last time I've seen any of my colleagues from work, in the flesh, was more than 3 years ago. The money I save in gas alone...

We are new to long backpacking trips- but not new to outdoors. We live a very flexible life- to the point that (we are early 30's) kids that we coached in swimming had a bet that we were either rich or we sold drugs- because we "did not work".... lol....

In truth- we own 2 businesses- both are internet based- so all our income comes from orders placed online. One of our companies is in manufacturing, that does require us to "make" a product. And sometimes that gets in the way of outdoor play- but mostly we have designed our lives to live - to not be sucked in to a rat race.

We also live in North Eastern Lower Michigan- some of the best trails in our state are less than a mile from my front door.

Although- I did grow up in the PNW, and MISSSSS the Cascades to death- and have looked at moving to a small town in the Snoqualmie area for many years- and who knows maybe! But for now- I purchased 10 wooded acres within 1/2 mile from a lake and trails and it is safe and quite and has a shop for our companies for 140k (actually quite high for my area)- and with such a small monthly payment- it gives me extra $$ for things I want to do and equipment I want to have. If I was to move to the PNW I would be paying 3-6x what I pay right in housing and not even have nearly as nice of a place. It is costly there!

Also- we do not have cable TV- we have one car- we work from home, so it saves on gas, we just put our money where we want it to go!

I think that working for ourselves has been the biggest benefit to living how WE want- not making our lives work around someone else telling us when we can take time off.

I know not everyone is as lucky as us- but then again, anyone can do what we do....

Edited by crayon on 05/02/2012 21:41:49 MDT.

I would get the book "The 4-hour workweek" by Timothy Ferriss It is a great book on lifestyle design!! I own it in print, digital and audio! lol...

>"If I was to move to the PNW I would be paying 3-6x what I pay right in housing and not even have nearly as nice of a place. It is costly there!"

Angela,

I've often had that same thought - how much would our 13 forested acres with 700 feet of sandy beach on the salt water looking across at three 10,000-foot glaciated (and ocassionally erupting) volcanos cost in Puget Sound? Oh, and it's on the road system, has city water, electric and natural gas. $5,000,000? $10,000,000? I kayaked past Bill Gates house a lot when I lived in Seattle and, yeah, he's got more enclosed square feet, but not nearly as nice a location. But we paid less for our lot than you did for yours.

Certain combinations work better than others - you've got an internet business that gives you freedom in your location. We've got professional jobs that pay better in a rural area than in the big city. Whereas Michigan can be a crappy place if you're an out-of-work auto worker and Alaska is a tough place to live on minimum wage (because food costs more and you use a lot of utilities for heat).

It's also worth noting that it's about attitude. This site pushes the newest, best, lightest, most expensive gear. Be happy with what you have, because in truth it's probably light enough for you to have a good time. Don't worry about shaving an extra ounce or two off. Save your money that way, by not succumbing to the hyper-materialism that can engulf this place sometimes, but also your sanity.

very well said

Just take what you can afford and go when you want to and be happy with it.

And also realize that a lot of people probably spend more time talking about their hobbies on internet forums that actually engaging in them throughout the year.

It makes it look like everyone is out thru-hiking the Smokies each weekend when that's probably pretty far from the truth.

I confess to a tinge of greeness when I think of the diverse outdoors playground many of you (US based) posters have available to you.....but then your vacation regimen brings that back into balance.

A friend who migrated to Canada a decade ago has just got up to four hard-won weeks of vacation time (although he can and does flex other time a little).

I'm paid a lot less now than when I was private sector...but now I have around nine weeks of holiday - which gives me the chance to come and enjoy your playground and lot's of others too :-)

In any case the UL stuff costs pales in comparisons to some kid activities.

I have a friend whos daughter competes in rodeo. Fancy horse, trailer, training, F250 to pull it, travel all around the country. Ive never asked, but I know they spend A LOT on that. But what else would a pro bass fisherman do when not fishing?

My boss at works daughter got a new horse. Until he told me, I had no idea a "good" horse cost more than many new cars.

Makes me feel better about throwing down a piddly couple thousand on kids sports each yr.

Hiking is only putting one foot in front of the other. Pretty basic. Some gear is needed for overnights, and an inexpensive and light kit can easily be assembled.

For the most part hiking is free. And one need not necessarily drive long distances. I travel all over the country and it is quite easy to find somewhere to overnight even near metro areas.

Lots of vacation time is not a prerequisite either. Here in the states, even without considering vacation, most people have 2 days per week off. That is 104 days per year. So, the question is are we managing our inventory of leisure time? Every day of inventory not utilized for good things is lost forever, and our inventory is finite.

Hi Nick,

When I read your post, I thought "that's the problem, I only get 104 days of weekends per year". I think that I do manage my free time well, but I only get a few overnights on the trail per year. It's just that hiking is only one of my interests. Between sailing (offshore racing when I can), blacksmithing, woodworking, restoring old cars, medieval re-creation, treasurer for a non-profit, maintaining my house (1912 Craftsman), etc. etc. There's just not enough to go around. If hiking was all that I wanted to do, there would be plenty of time. That said, I'd more time to hike, maybe after I retire... :)

I think a lot comes down to changing expectations.
I think many like me, read trip reports from those few people who are lucky that their profession gives them a lot of time off or they have really made a lot of sacrifices and may have different prioritys than most people.
Is it that bad to get out every once in a while for a weekend? Once I thought it was but the more long term trips I took the more I realized as much as I love the outdoors I have so many other interest too. Do I want to spend 4-6 months hiking? Maybe when I retire but I think of how much of the world I could see in that same time, how many museums and great citys- suddenly its not as appealing.
There is nothing wrong with being a weekend warrior. Ive learned that all I need is a little bit of wilderness and little bit of alone time and Im good.
Sure I see those pics of mountaineers and thru hikers in remote wilderness and can see myself there but I if Im honest with myself Im probably happier doing other things.
I found myself feeling lonely even when I was in the most beautiful of places. That was a wake up call that I needed some balance in my life between the outdoors and normal life. I keep a light pack with a simple kit in the closet and when I feel the need I can just grab it and go on a quick foray into the wild.

Edited by MAYNARD76 on 05/03/2012 20:53:43 MDT.

Thanks for a great and honest post Brian.

"Is it that bad to get out every once in a while for a weekend?"

Absolutely not!

One thing I make a point of doing is celebrating the times when I am blessed with the opportunity to retreat and drift around in my favorite wild places, no matter the scale of adventure. Celebrate every measure of time spent outdoors because it really is a luxury and not one everyone has the privilege of experiencing at the capacity we get to.