I am going to try my first weekend trip in a hammock in couple of weeks. I have a Grand Trunk Ultralight and was going to try using my large Neoair (25"x77"). Does anybody have any experience with this set up? I understand underquilts are the way to go, but I wanted to see if hammocks are for me before spend the bucks. The trip will be to to the Smokies. I am expecting low temps in the 30-40's.

I have the same hammock, however, after one night of trying to use a 20" ccf pad I decided a pad inside a hammock was not the way for me. I have often wondered if a wider pad would have been different, but I don't think it would have worked for me. It just seemed like to much of a hassle keeping the pad in place, and me in place on top of it. So, I ended up getting a 20 F Phoenix under quilt from Hammock Gear. It has 7D on the outer shell and cuben fiber for the inner. It is bliss!

http://sticksblog.com/hammockin/tqs-uqs/hammock-gear-20-f-phoenix-cuben-fiber-uq/

I would recommend heading over to Hammock Forums though for hammock inquiries...Lots of great information over there from people who live in them! :)

Also, do you (already) have a campsite reserved in the Smokies. I know that Hammocks are not allowed in the shelters and I feel like if a ranger saw one hanging outside the shelter he would ask you to take it down. I have seen a ranger tell 2 guys to take them down at LeConte shelter before.

Anyway, good luck and enjoy your hike.

Edited by Stick on 04/22/2012 16:16:04 MDT.

I don't have direct experience with your combination of gear but I did use my BA IAC with my Warbonnet Blackbird when I first went to hammocks. The air mattress screws up the lay of the hammock so expect it to be a lot more comfortable once you go to a UQ(I'm sure you know that). Point being is, don't rule out the hammock comfort setup too quick with the air mattress. I'd hate to see you give up on it too quickly. Second, you'll want to run as little air as possible in your neoair but still get the job done.

I'm not going to speculate on it being ok in the 30-40 range. Hammocks require a lot of testing at first. Fun testing. Find a place you can test it(a few hours at night then go home), back yard or nearby park. You don't need much, just two trees located in a spot where people are not looking at you like your crazy. Because your not going to get it right on the first time and you'll have a hard nights sleep. Hopefully your neoair is the 25" width. The wider ones work better in the hammocks.

I am working through the same process Andy. I have a Warbonnet Blackbird 1.1 with the double bottom for my Thermarest Z lite pad with a Superfly tarp. In March, I spent one 30˚night in my yard and froze. After that, I decided I really needed to invest in an ‘under-quilt’. However earlier this week (and still without the quilt), I spent two 30˚ nights on the A.T. here in Maine and… you guessed it, I froze! I figured that if I wore all of my clothing, wicking layer, fleece layer, down layer, rain jacket and winter hat I would be fine, wrong. I am convinced the solution is with an under quilt not the pad.

In retrospect, I believe that being more careful to seal the bottom of the tarp to the ground all around the hammock on cold-windy nights would help hold some more heat. I was on uneven ground and had some 6”-12” gaps under parts of the tarp.

Edited by Kendig on 04/22/2012 19:41:25 MDT.

I've been using a hammock for four season camping for a while now, taking them down to at least -5F in the winter. A few personal observations and opinions:

- a flexible pad like a RidgeRest works better than a rigid inflatable pad in terms of hammock stability. A rigid pad raises your center of gravity and makes the hammock less stable.

- a hammock with a double bottom works better, as you can slip the pad between the two layers. This seems to minimize pad shifting.

- if it's really cold, just try two RidgeRests for extra insulation.

- you need more insulation in a hammock than on the ground, due to the air flow underneath you.

- I can't get an underquilt to seal up properly. As always, YMMV.

- the colder it is, the more you need a tarp that closes around the hammock, possibly with "doors" on the ends to minimize winds from blowing across your butt.

- one issue is keeping your arms warm when you rest your arms against the side of the hammock. I've tried various ways to add insulation, such as a CCF pad running across the hammock, but everything I've tried seems to shift or not work. The best solution I've found so far is using standard elbow/knee pads on the elbows; they weigh little and don't shift. Makes for a much warmer sleep.

- a quilt is easier to get in and out of than a sleeping bag zipped up, and saves quite a bit of weight.

- get used to using a pee bottle for a far less interrupted sleep.

"get used to using a pee bottle for a far less interrupted sleep."

Don, Being a family friendly site, we can't go into details but I have to ask...how on earth do you use a pee bottle in a hammock? This is a real issue for me since I use a pee bottle when I use a tent but I have to get out of the hammock to pee.

I use CCF pad(s) from Walmart and they work well. However you really need to have your pad system 30 to 35 inches wide ,as the hammock wraps around your shoulders and hips, compressing your SB and leaving no insulation at those points. I havn't used my Big agnes insulated air mattress . Experts say that it should h dbe underinflated to stop it squirming about in the hammock. But it will have the basic problem of not being wide enough to insulate shoulders and hips. I presume the same applies to the Neoair. I cut one pad (72x20) in half and lay the two pieces overlapped to make a torso pad 36" long by 30+" wide, with double thickness pad along the centre line. Punch a couple of holes and lace them together with some mason line to stop them seperating. Unfasten in the am, push to complete overlap and roll and tie using the mason line to give a 20"xca.6" roll to hang on your pack. That set up, with a 20 deg bag was good to below 40 deg for me. BTW, use the SB as a quilt, push your feet into the foot box and just drape the bag over your body and tuck in at the sides. The pad insulated you underneath, not the bag. The CCF pad is a vapour barrier, so you may have some condensation to contend with. It will also completely stop the wind, which is a very good thing in a hammock
Google Segmented pad extender (SPE) to find fancier ways of putting wings on your pad to protect shoulders and hips.

This is just about the best intro to hammock insulation:
http://www.tothewoods.net/HammockCampingWarm.html

and most other hammock matters. It's where i got the idea for the ovelapped half pads
(Risk's overlap pad)

I won''t be "upgrading" to an underquilt. An $8 pad is as good an insulator as a $150 ubderquilt, and is not demolished by water. I don;t find it to be in the least bit uncomfortable, as some suggest. $8 vs $150 == no contest as far as I am concerned.
If you think that for any reason that a single pad won;t be warm enough, take two and double the thickness - should take you down to freezing and below.

First time out, try it in your garden if you have one, ornear the car so you don't have too far to walk if it doesn't work for you. Getting cold at night is just uncomfortable if the car is nearby. In the middle of nowhere it's dangerous.

"Don, being a family friendly site, we can't go into details but I have to ask...how on earth do you use a pee bottle in a hammock?"

Very, very carefully. :-)

I use a Nalgene bottle (lime green with yellow stripes) that looks *nothing* like my regular ones, and I don't take another Nalgene bottle of the same size in with me. Hate to make a mistake at night. Using it is simply a matter of rolling to one side and doing what needs to be done. Much easier than climbing out to the hammock several times a night.

Edited by backslacker on 04/23/2012 16:02:13 MDT.

My experience has been that with a reasonably sized hammock with the side lines staked out that the hammock doesn't bunch up around my shoulders. The issue is my elbows pressing against the hammock as I sleep, and that's taken care of by simple elbow pads.

An alternate method is to use a standard width pad for your body, and then run a short CCF pad at 90 degrees to that underneath your shoulders and up the sides of the hammock.

I also typically use a 26" wide pad trimmed at both the foot and head end to fit into the shape of the hammock.

Edited by backslacker on 04/23/2012 16:01:21 MDT.

I have just jumped off the ground myself. I do not have your setup, I have a hammock bliss ultralight that I can use if it is not too buggy out (much preferred due to weight) but also have a hammock bliss with no see-em mesh for buggy nights but it is heavier and I try not to use it. I have a hammock gear Pheonix (good to 20 degrees) 3/4 length underquilt that I swear weighs close to nothing. (actual weight is 16.7 ounces)I think it is $179 bucks. I go with the 3/4 size to save weight, and I can just put my jacket underneath that portion of the hammock (suspended by the lines from the underquilt) to insulate the whole hammock.
http://www.hammockgear.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3_6_12&products_id=19

Trust me on this one... even if you have to carry a little more weight (which you wont if you go with an UL tarp like cuben fiber) you will want to go this route. Dont trust your first outing though, or at least pitch your hammock at different hanging tensions and getting in it for an hour or so per pitch prior to making your decision. some people like their hammock to sag in the middle, others like it pretty straight. Bottom line though... no matter how you pitch your hammock, I guarantee a better night's sleep than if you were to sleep ont he ground as long as you are warm.

One other thing is invest in a top quilt rather than a sleeping bag. Whatever weight you add in the underquilt you will make up for not having a complete sleeping bag and the under-portion of a sleeping back is a waste. Golite has a 20 degree quilt that is $149 bucks... great price for what it is. Getting into a sleeping bag (even when over-sized) is not an easy task. The top-quilt makes a huge difference.

Watch Shugery's videos on youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/user/shugemery

Devon----

Great idea on the jacket. That is just enough for feet or head with a 3/4 quilt. I can't wait to try it.

Thanks Dale... It works out pretty well, especially if you have an extra shirt to use under your head for a pillow. It really is important I have found to make sure the whole of you body is insulated from the bottom nif you are not going to use a mat under you (which is not comfortable IMO).

One other good cold weather trick too is the warm water bottle trick. I know taking a nalgene bottle may be against the code of many UL backpackers, but if you are going to be hammock camping in the cold, it is a lifesaver if it gets colder than you anticipated. Right before you go to bed, heat up some water, put it in the nalgene and put it in under your top quilt for a few minutes before you get in... this will make your getting into the hammock nice and warm which is VERY relaxing. Then put the bottle between your legs next to the femoral artery... this will keep you warm for at least six hours, no joke. Of course there are plastic bottles that weigh less you may be able to use, but I don't suggest that. Warm plastic bottle in my hammock would worry me because if it burst, then you could have a very serious problem on your hands.

I take synthetic stuff and even a vest would help extend the reach of your underquilt. Speaking of pillows, my Cocoon UL pillow is like custom made for hammock use.

Getting back to bottom insulation, pads just suck in a hammock. I would love to see an asymmetrical design hammock with a big pocket in the bottom, say 4" deep, that you could slide insulation into. Think of a big square/diamond shaped quilt or separated pillows and add a little Velcro to keep them in place. Much like Clark's insulation system, except one big pocket covering the center 3/4 length of the hammock and close to the full width.

I think it would be interesting to try an insulated air mattress as a pocket insulator, or one built just for that purpose that could snap or Velcro to the bottom of the hammock. Since it would not need to hold any weight, it could be a differential cut for a good seal to the sleeper's backside and could be made of the lightest materials. The inflation would only be to provide loft and you wouldn't actually want it to be as firm as a ground mattress. Some reflective material could be used for the upper side. You could side a thin foam pad between the hammock and the mattress for a little more insulation. Some Reflectix type material might be interesting there too.

If you want a light, cheap insulation system, check out the Garlington Insulator concept. (see http://www.garlington.biz/Ray/HammockInsulator/Insulator.htm). Ted Garlington cooked up the idea of using an under cover with bags of material inside to provide insulation. I built one using a hoodless poncho as an under cover and then I use the open cell foam pad from the Hennessy SuperShelter system (you can buy them separately). That gives me back some weight for multiple use as rain gear and gives more wind and rain protection for the hammock. The poncho has 3/32" shock cord in channels on all four sides with toggles for adjustment and weighs about 10oz. A Cuben version would be great and needs little strength as it isn't stressed like a shelter skin.






I did some experimenting with bags made from space blankets and double-stick tape with crumpled/folded space blankets inside, which gave a couple inches of loft and they are quite light and cheap to make. Garlington used crumpled/folded space blankets inside a light garbage bag and you could use many type of material for loft--- even crumpled newspaper will create a dead air space. An under cover can be made from any rectangle of cloth with some shock cord drawstrings at least in the ends or all four sides. You could use a Grand Trunk Ultralight hammock with shock cord in the end channels and still swap out the suspension with whoopie slings later to use is as a day hammock.

If you just want to experiment with the concept, you can take a 108"x60" rectangle of just about any material and gather the ends with a sock cord lashing and tie them into your suspension. I was thinking about trying some polycryo window film. Add some Garlington Insulators and you have a full under cover with a couple inches of loft. Low density polyethylene trash can liners like they use for commercial/office garbage bags make the best off-the-shelf insulator bags.


2QZQ is a company that does alterations on Hennessy hammocks, adding zippers to the bottom entry designs, and they make under covers too. http://www.2qzqhammockhanger.com/hammockaccessories.html

Edited by dwambaugh on 04/25/2012 11:30:00 MDT.

There's a big difference in using a pad with a bottom entry hammock, a single-bottom side zip hammock, and a double bottom hammock. Don't even get me started on trying to climb into the original Hennessy hammock with the bottom slit - climbing over the pad was a major hassle. WIth a regular single-bottom hammock you tend to have the pad move underneath you as you enter or move around. The best is a double-bottom hammock, where the pad goes between the two layers. It tends to stay put.

For what its worth, I have used a neoair many times in my WBBB and it works very well. I would think it would work well in most any hammock. Mine is a double layer hammock so i didnt have the pad slipping/sliding issue normally assiated with pads and hammocks.

Going below zero degrees would be a very interesting hammock sleep indeed. The best thing to do in regards to adding extra warmth in this regard is this (IMO of course):

1. use a full length Underquilt. My favorite is a zero degree UQ that weighs 28.5 ounces from hammockgear.com. This one does not have the problems other quilts have in regards to not suspending correctly under your hammock. Here is a link to it: http://www.hammockgear.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3_7_16&products_id=6
2. YOu have seen the emergency blankets. Those suck due to the noise and are good for one use but work and weigh close to nothing if you put it between the hammock on the UQ. I cant stand them due to the nosie and don't mind the extra weight to be comfortable so... At walmart they have a accordian-style folding car window shade that you can put between you and your hammock that will reflect your body heat back at you. Still very light and under 7 bucks, no noise and will form with the hammock. It also acts as a vapor barier so your underquilt will not get damp. I am a big guy so I bought two and formed them to match my dimensions perfectly tapering down towards my feet to save weight: http://www.walmart.com/ip/Auto-Expressions-Diamond-Matrix-Sunshade-Standard/16672483
3. Hot Water technique (see previous post). Keeps you warmer where it counts.
4. very well insulated top quilt. the zero degree Burrow, again from hammockgear.com is an excellent choice with lots of loft and you can even have it overstuffed an extra 4 ounces if you would like to add even more loft: http://www.hammockgear.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2_9&products_id=3
5. Tarp to keep the wind from directly blowing on you. I prefer the cuben fiber tarp with doors on either side if you pitch where you are sleeping just a few feet off the ground you can have these tarps completely envelop you as if you were in a Tent. Very expensive but bulletproof with wind (not so much if you let things poke a hole in it though, you have to be careful not to set it up where branches or other sharp objects could puncture it) hammockgear sells one as well as several other outfits. They are all about the same price right around 300 bucks.. expensive I know but so worth it and the weight savings are insanely good.