"Business stuff aside, all the Jam haters on this thread may fail to realize that making a 50L pack out of Dyneema Gridstop is going to weigh a little bit, but be durable."

First - the whole pack is not made out of dyneema gridstop. In fact, the main body is only partial dyneema gridstop. The rest is ripstop.

Second - while the dyneema gridstop material is durable, the thinly padded shoulder and belt straps, the mesh, and the foam uses is not.

Has anyone tried their parapoa long sleeve? I am considering it for the pct.

didn't you give it a good review on the golite website?Andrew Skurka seems to like it,but they are one of his sponsors.He shows in this video

http://andrewskurka.com/2012/authorsgoogle-ultimate-hiking-gear-skills-clinic/

Just picked up a Jam for myself and my wife. Have been wanting a lighter pack for some time. 70% off is a pretty good deal. I wish they made kids gear as well.

In New Zealand and Australia the Kathmandu brand has had success by selling direct only and through their own stores. They have multiple sales each year with discounts of 30-60% and more. The discount, however, is on what they call a recommend retail price and these prices are often unrealistically high e.g. 550 fill goosedown jacket for 500 NZD when you can get a Outdoor Research Men's Virtuoso Down Jacket for 359 NZD or a Patagonia down sweater for 400 NZD. Golite seem to be starting with competitive recommended prices and then discounting from there. Sucks they wont ship to New Zealand, but at least this stops me from getting stuff I don't really need.

Macpac have now gone for a very similar business model (Kathmandu's founder is now a part owner of Macpac).

It seems to me you could put together a pretty solid light weight kit at a great price with Golite at the moment.

How is the fact that shoulder/belt straps don't last as long as the rest of the pack singled out as just a problem with the Jam? I don't know of any pack that has straps that will last forever. People may bring up Mchale, but the price is way out of line with jam.

I have been using my jam for 3 and a half years and it is in great shape. Just because it isn't the lightest doesn't mean it isn't worthy of choice around here.

"First - the whole pack is not made out of dyneema gridstop. In fact, the main body is only partial dyneema gridstop. The rest is ripstop. " Yes, the two grey strips and foam bit against your back are not dyneema gridstop. Pack body is about 70% Dyneema gridstop though.

"Second - while the dyneema gridstop material is durable, the thinly padded shoulder and belt straps, the mesh, and the foam uses is not."

A few posts up you complained that they added more padding, now it is thinly padded. My hiking partners Pinnacle looked just fine after the PCT. Anyway, aside from the rear pocket design and stuff that is easily trimmed, the Jam has 'spent' it's weight pretty well on fabrics and design. Why that hate?

I am fondling the 2012 version right now and it is a definite step back from my 2009. Yes-the padding on the shoulder straps is far too soft and thin and the padding against the back is far too thick. @ 2lbs it is a pig for a 46l frameless pack. The foam is of low quality now. It will flatten out in no time. There is less dyneema on the pack than the early models. I am glad you like your 2012 Jams. I am not impressed with the product. Sorry.

I guess the following two questions will get a different response.

Is there a better 50L pack for $70 than the Jam?

Is there a better 50L pack than the Jam?

The former question is why I own a Jam, I got mine in the end-2011 sale, the latter question is the topic of a different debate altogether.

Nicely put, Nigel. Agreed.

I have an old jam2 I think it is an 08. I purchased it cheap back then and still love it for the value and minimal weight. The new one is definately not nearly as nice but can be bought cheap. I just ordered a 2012 Jam 70 to replace my 2010 pinnacle (also bought at a steep discount) since there has been so much talk about how much better the new hipbelts are. I think the 70 is still a pretty darn good pack for winter or other bulky endeavors. IMO it is a great value and though I have not really looked at numbers I assume it is up there as far as it's weight to capacity ratio goes.

"Is there a better 50L pack for $70 than the Jam?

Is there a better 50L pack than the Jam?"

Indeed, two very different questions. Thanks for boiling it down so succinctly, Nigel.

When the Kindle Fire was released, a few of my friends opined "Why would anyone own an iPad when you can get a Fire for $200?" Of course, this question was meant to be rhetorical, perhaps, but iPad owners came out of every corner with a laundry list of answers. Certainly the Fire has its function in the consumer marketplace, but it was never intended to be an iPad replacement and at its pricepoint, it's a silly comparison.

There does seem to be a little bit of GoLite fanboyism and it seems reasonable that there would be some counterbalance. I wouldn't classify it as "hating" on GoLite, though. I own a GoLite pack. It's too heavy for what it is and does, but it's functional and reasonably priced (so much so that I can't justify replacing it entirely), but I have concerns about their business model moving forward. They want to be the cheapest alternative on the market, but that comes with some heavy costs (no pun intended) all around. There should be room to identify those costs without offense, I would think, especially as it affects the quality of the products themselves. Cheaper materials + over-engineering = heavier pack and more things to go wrong. Clearly there is a market for this kind of a product, but just how broad that market is should be up for discussion.

Edited by arlynjj on 04/23/2012 20:54:30 MDT.

I have read most of this thread... lol- a long one for sure!

Owning a manufacturing company myself (as in I own the sewing house- no overseas manufacturing) and also only doing wholesale for 6 years then moving to direct sales- I can tell you is a different ball game. The profits are way better that way for sure.

But what it looks like (and clearly I know nothing, but if I had to guess) they are dumping inventory to do some big manufacturing orders. It is clear their stock is stupidly low- as in -out of stock all over their site.

I am more fearful that they are known for cheap prices (as in my industry I am as well) and that puts you in an odd spot. Because honestly- it cost them the same (say $5 from the manufacturer) to get an umbrella that they may sell for $15 but say Patagonia would sell for $25 or $30. In this case it is volume that is important, but I bet that Patagonia would sell more just off of name alone. So...... Thus making more profit. It is great to be affordable, but if you do not keep tight check on your overhead- it will run you in the ground.

Also- I do find the MSRP pricing really- gosh, what is the word... Dishonest??? Like we think our items should sell for this, but we are to afraid to ask for that, so we will just discount every item we have. So then you wonder, is the discount because of bad management or quality?

I am just talking form a purely consumer point- on that. Not a user point. Like, if someone just went to their site for the first time and saw everything out of stock and prices slashed... makes you wonder what is going on.

It also says on their website 30% off everyday! Well, then why not just have a great bag with a great price of $70? I think they would get a lot more buzz about quality and price v's are they going broke???

Anyway- I see the JAM 2011 thinking about it for my daughter.... At $50 bucks... come on!!! At that price I can even modify it to fit her. I wonder if I could modify it to fit my 7 year old too... lol!!!!!

Edited by crayon on 04/23/2012 21:25:08 MDT.

Time to chime in I work in the outdoor retail industry. Pretty standard that MSRP of stuff in stores from big names are 80% more than the initial production costs. Your $100 fleece at a retailer was purchased by the retailer for about 50% depending on discounts. then add in the potential of shipping. now that company didn't make it for $50. thy have overhead, wages, R&D Advertising etc. they would have made it for about $15. These brands also have employee pricing incentives were stuff is 60% to 80% off retail. they're not giving this stuff away they're still making money in these cases as well.

So yes it may look like massive liquidation and going out of business, but if they now are the ONLY retailer selling the Jam 50L pack, that means they're getting all of the sales. So yes everything is 30% off but that means on $100 item there making an extra $20, or $10 if you consider that they're not making retailer sales.

Also add on the fact they do not need to have sales reps, hire representation agencies, in store advertising, Store fixtures addition storage or logistics companies and retailer account managers.

They have been advertising in Backpacker Magazine for years, have one of the most recognizable adventurers under sponsor ship, are in the new backpacking gear guide, get countless recommendations on notable sites like BPL, whiteblaze, trailspace etc and have a partnership with NOLS(I think this still stands). The going out of business theory seems unlikely because they haven't closed they're free standing stores(high overhead)and the making of a new product line for spring.

Well it could be true:

"The going out of business theory seems unlikely because they haven't closed they're free standing stores(high overhead)and the making of a new product line for spring."

However, there is now a thread over 100 post just questioning this very topic. So, it appears they are giving the impression of "business problems" v's "stability"- even if that is not the case.

or just a ton of speculation without any facts from the company its self. And I'm not saying I'm right just pointing out some things not being talked. and 50+ of the posts are for the coupon for 20% off and another 20 bashing the jam pack.

Anyone have a coupon code? I submitted a review and havnt received anything,I made sure I was signed in. Im wanting to pull the trigger on an item but waiting on the code. Thanks

odd. Check your spam folder? Mine was instant you can use mine if noone else has 5EkTPx

Checked spam and still nothing. Looks like that coupon code has been used, thanks though.

ok I'll submit another review and give you my next code. 2mins...wait....

Update, I did and I got my code instant and I PM'd you so you can use it before someone else beats you. Hope whatever you're getting does you great.

Edited by nigelhealy on 04/24/2012 11:47:31 MDT.