post-exercise refueling?
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Leslie Thurston
(lesler) - F

Locale: right here, right now
post-exercise refueling? on 04/10/2012 11:51:59 MDT Print View

what are others reaching for after feeling shelled?
choice beverages? food?
eeeeks.
i'm hung up on cocount water and bananas.
lt

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: post-exercise refueling? on 04/10/2012 12:04:07 MDT Print View

A few years ago a bunch of us did a super tough dayhike. We were out for about 17 hours before arriving at a campground and the rest of our group. They asked me what I wanted to eat, but I was too tired to eat a lot. I asked for one cup of fruit juice and one bowl of hot soup. Then I collapsed to sleep.

--B.G.--

Chris W
(simplespirit) - MLife

Locale: .
Re: post-exercise refueling? on 04/10/2012 12:08:21 MDT Print View

I tend to be like Bob. When I'm exercising I tend to not eat a lot and after I just eat whatever I normally eat. With that said, the leaner I've gotten the faster I get hungry. I attended a local whitewater raft guide school a few weeks ago and found myself eating a ton. The coconut water and banana cravings are probably (ok, just an educated guess really) related to a depletion of potassium.

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: Re: post-exercise refueling? on 04/10/2012 12:20:01 MDT Print View

I used to get bad muscle cramps during heavy exercise. Then I got smart and started on bananas or Gatorade, each good sources of potassium. Then the cramps went away.

If you just want the electrolytes but you don't need the sugar dose of the Gatorade, then take some dieter's salt substitute. It is potassium chloride with a little sodium chloride. Plus, if you put that into your other food, it won't upset your stomach.

--B.G.--

Laurie Ann March
(Laurie_Ann) - F

Locale: Ontario, Canada
cramps on 04/10/2012 13:05:42 MDT Print View

A magnesium supplement is really helpful for muscle cramping. Muscle cramping can also be a sign of dehydration or can happen with a new activity that the muscles aren't accustomed to. Usually for me it is the not enough water thing.

My family doc is also Sports Med and a marathoner. She believes that water is best and that we don't need the electrolyte replacement drinks if we have a decent diet and keep hydrated. I asked if she uses them in the marathons she runs.... nope - just water.

It really depends on the day what I do post-workout. If I am hiking, I've generally fueled along the way. If I am running it depends. Sometimes I'll have a yogurt (or chocolate milk). I generally have a small handful of nuts or granola that is heavy on the nuts along with the dairy. If my blood sugar is low I also pop a couple ClifBloks. Sometimes I have a quinoa salad with some sort of bean (usually edamame) in it.

Today I had 1/2 whole grain bagel with cream cheese, fresh herbs, roasted garlic and roasted mixed peppers and a glass of mineral water. I also had an apple. I choose this because I ran right before lunch.

Edited by Laurie_Ann on 04/10/2012 13:11:56 MDT.

jeffrey armbruster
(book) - M

Locale: Northern California
"post-exercise refueling?" on 04/10/2012 13:36:26 MDT Print View

So I discovered dried bananas last season. Just awesome in my morning oatmeal! Also love 'em during the rest of the day. Does anyone know (Laurie) if these dried bananas have all the potassium goodness of the regular nanner, or if the drying process kills the nutritional value?

Bob Gross
(--B.G.--) - F

Locale: Silicon Valley
Re: "post-exercise refueling?" on 04/10/2012 14:01:47 MDT Print View

Jeffrey, the drying and preparation of bananas should not have any serious effect on potassium. It will have some effect on other nutrients such as vitamins. But, if you are just trying to get some calories and potassium, there is no problem.

--B.G.--

Joe Clement
(skinewmexico) - MLife

Locale: Southwest
post-exercise refueling on 04/10/2012 14:02:55 MDT Print View

I've had good luck with the Endurox R4 I got on closeout from Bonktown.

Laurie Ann March
(Laurie_Ann) - F

Locale: Ontario, Canada
dried nanners on 04/10/2012 14:07:00 MDT Print View

As far as I know dried fruit retains much of the nutritional value. Now I am talking about freeze-dried and home-dehyrated bananas here. Those crispy ones are actually fried and I'm not sure of the nutritional values on those (they are yummy though).

There are actually other good sources of potassium (some of these are even better than bananas)...

- sweet potatoes
- beet greens
- orange juice
- potatoes
- white beans
- clams
- dates
- raisins
- yogurt
- dried apricots
- avocados
- cocoa

Joe Clement
(skinewmexico) - MLife

Locale: Southwest
post-exercise refueling? on 04/10/2012 14:12:26 MDT Print View

Those crispy banannas are fried, and coated with sugar water so they don't turn black.

Eugene Smith
(Eugeneius) - MLife

Locale: Nuevo Mexico
"post-exercise refueling?" on 04/10/2012 14:17:24 MDT Print View

Depends on duration and exertion. I'm a bit of a catfish and don't have a stringent diet I stick to.

For my early morning trail runs (1.5-2hr) I always down a banana at the trailhead post run, gets me from trailhead to the coffee shop where I usually grab a green chile bagel w/ cream cheese and a coffee. Maltodextrin based gel or drink lightly during my run so I'm not famished (~100-200cals). This is my routine most days and does the trick.

For any running over >3 hrs. I grab fruit (banana, apple, pear, etc) immediately post run and usually have some whey protein ready to mix into some water back at the trailhead (*if my stomach is cooperating). If it's an ultramarathon or long run with run mates I will eat whatever is available at the finish or at the nearest brewery.

A pint of brown or double IPA with a green chile burger and sweet potato fries is killer.

Laurie Ann March
(Laurie_Ann) - F

Locale: Ontario, Canada
Re: post-exercise refueling? on 04/10/2012 14:18:48 MDT Print View

Yes... I knew that Joe. That's why I avoid them unless I am backpacking (occasional treat as a small ingredient in a granola bar). I've started drying my own dipped in lime juice and a little agave nectar... not quite as crunchy but a wee bit healthier.

The freeze-dried ones from Natural High are fabulous. They rehydrate instantly and the texture is good. Not as good as a fresh banana mind you.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Re: Re: post-exercise refueling? on 04/10/2012 15:37:29 MDT Print View

"If you just want the electrolytes but you don't need the sugar dose of the Gatorade, then take some dieter's salt substitute. It is potassium chloride with a little sodium chloride. Plus, if you put that into your other food, it won't upset your stomach."

+1 It's called Mortons Lite Salt

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: post-exercise refueling on 04/10/2012 16:00:30 MDT Print View

"I've had good luck with the Endurox R4 I got on closeout from Bonktown."

Whether or not one chooses to use a "recovery" drink, the type and amount of ingredients they generally contain can provide a template for what you should be taking in, regardless of the source, IMO/IME. Primarily carbs and protein in a 3:1 ratio, along with electrolytes. I am talking here about recovering from an extended hard workout or long, hard day on the trail. For shorter efforts it doesn't make that much difference because you haven't exhausted msucle glycogen or metabolized significant muscle protein.

@ Laurie - I have to disagree with your doc on the electrolytes, at least for endurance activities, especially in hot weather. I have personally had two serious incidents, during a marathon and a 50 miler, where electrolyte depletion was part of my problem. I also used to have frequent trouble with leg cramps, and since I started to add electrolytes to my water have experienced practically none. Maybe I'm a unique physical specimen, but somehow I doubt it. No doubt there are individual variences but, in the course of an extended effort, everyone loses Na in particular and, to a lesser degree, K, beyond what is ingested in a normal diet.

Edited by ouzel on 04/10/2012 16:01:01 MDT.

Sarah Kirkconnell
(sarbar) - F

Locale: In the shadow of Mt. Rainier
Re: post-exercise refueling? on 04/10/2012 16:33:05 MDT Print View

I eat whatever I crave - if I can find it that is ;-) Today I had a leftover bean burrito from last night's dinner. Was delicious and filled my belly.
I get my freeze-dried fruits/berries from Trader Joe's. The bananas are excellent. I eat a lot of potassium in food due to my BP meds. I live on a "diet" high in veggies/fruits as well.
But honestly some days all I want is a latte and I go for it!

Daniel Cox
(COHiker) - F

Locale: San Isabel NF
Chocolate Milk on 04/10/2012 16:42:36 MDT Print View

If you're talking about those 20-mile dayhikes or century bike rides, there's a growing body of scientific research showing that plain old chocolate milk is as good for recovery after endurance exercise as anything that marketed as a recovery aid. It has a nearly perfect ratio of protein to carbs, plus a little fat.
During two separate courses earning a BS in exercise physiology I had to not only conduct a meta-study on the subject from an endurance point of view (mostly cyclists doing multi-hour rides), but also as a class actually created and conducted and participated in an experiment investigating the effect of chocolate milk on recovery after high aerobic intensity workouts to exhaustion. We specifically ran 200m and 400m sprints.

Turns out it's quite effective in pretty much every regard. It's also cheap, palatable, and easily acquirable at any gas station or grocery store.
It doesn't provide much in the electrolytes, but that can be addressed rather easily with oral rehydration salts, or gatorade you drink during the hike/run/ride.

Sarah Kirkconnell
(sarbar) - F

Locale: In the shadow of Mt. Rainier
Re: Chocolate Milk on 04/10/2012 16:49:51 MDT Print View

Actually dairy milk is full of electrolytes! 8 ounces of 2% has 400 mg of potassium and 125 mg sodium with 8 grams protein.

Tom Kirchner
(ouzel) - MLife

Locale: Pacific Northwest/Sierra
Re: Chocolate Milk on 04/10/2012 17:09:37 MDT Print View

"there's a growing body of scientific research showing that plain old chocolate milk is as good for recovery after endurance exercise as anything that marketed as a recovery aid. It has a nearly perfect ratio of protein to carbs, plus a little fat."

+1 It's the "go to" recovery drink for one of my hiking partners, a seriously fit endurance athlete. She got the idea from an exercise physiologist up here, and swears by it. The only issue I can see has to do with backpacking. It isn't practical to carry chocolate milk on multi day trips. We were talking a couple of days ago about experiementing with Nido and cocoa powder. I used a combination of 2 oz Ensure and 1 oz Nido last year in the mountains with acceptable results, but it is a bit to high in fat to be an optimal recovery drink, IMO. Lots of options without breaking the bank using commercial recovery drinks.

Daniel Cox
(COHiker) - F

Locale: San Isabel NF
Re: Re: Chocolate Milk on 04/10/2012 17:13:09 MDT Print View

"Actually dairy milk is full of electrolytes! 8 ounces of 2% has 400 mg of potassium and 125 mg sodium with 8 grams protein."

Well, I'll be... You're right. I never looked at that. All our experimental concern was for the protein/sugar/fat proportions.

"The only issue I can see has to do with backpacking. It isn't practical to carry chocolate milk on multi day trips."

It's heavy because it's liquid, but I drank a fair amount of Shelf-stable choc. milk on deployment, and it's not undrinkable. Roughly the same nutrition too.

http://www.organicvalley.coop/products/milk/shelf-stable-milks/product/shelf-stable-whole-milk-1-liter/

Edited by COHiker on 04/10/2012 17:20:32 MDT.

Laurie Ann March
(Laurie_Ann) - F

Locale: Ontario, Canada
refuel and rehydrate on 04/10/2012 19:34:04 MDT Print View

Tom.... I trust her judgement on this one. Keep in mind too that (for me at least) she recommends a daily magnesium supplementation for running (and that is one of the important electrolytes). She is sports med and was a military doc before that so she's used to extremes. She did recommend yogurt or choc. milk or a date bar post run. All of those contain electrolytes. Plain old water does contain minerals although there can be variances in that by region.

I also do not sweat profusely even under extreme circumstances. I wish I could sweat more because I'd be able to regulate my body temp better... anyway I have to wonder if this puts me at less risk for hyponatremia.

So, after your comment, I thought I'd Google it and I found this interesting article with resources cited and linked.

Should a Runner Drink Water With Electrolytes All the Time?