James,

Thank for the insight, its great. I like the idea of getting the pad to work together wit the pack, this has come up in some research. I am trying to keep things specific though, as I have only so much time and resources. If i am not careful, I will end up just designing my own dream camp, which is more me, than useful to many (industrial design is a mass market approach). I see the UL tarp and bivy set up work well, and again, there is little frame at base weight sub 10lbs... The needs of UL are so specific, it ends up as custom gear for the ONE individual. To be fully rugged, we could all be like Grandma Gatewood and cary a shower curtain and a blanket with some sneakers... but I see room for luxuries. I am young, I am quite comfortable carrying over 15lbs, but I see lots of benefit in keeping it all sub 30lbs. There are a enough of us who I feel would say the same.

Tyler,

I may have highlighted some of my points already in other responses, but I wanted to give you the personal attention you have offered to me. The groundsheet wrap up idea is one I will explore... as well as looking at the sleeping system (pad). I feel a stand alone sleeping bag is important due to one's personal needs hiking, and keeping my project focussed. Yes, the durability/weight/comfort battle is always close, so I am for this project giving myself a light weight approach, not super light weight. The frame/pole/structure idea is at the core of my assumptions, while I try to be open to many options.

Thanks for your input, its very helpful.

To all others not personally addressed, all of you have given great insight and suggestions, so thank you.

I have explained my goals well above^^^ so to be direct...

John Cooper: carbon fiber stays as additional support to any shelter is a primary area of my testing in the future... a little extra support, when used in the pack already seems like an easy addition to my thesis. The pack acting as partial bivy is also a nice addition, though I may seek more shelter than a tarp for my user goals... though, it could be a good survival/extra feature that is secondary to other needs. Ventilation and draft issues are very crucial too. Thank you!

Ultra Magnus: sound like there are cross over sports that I should explore for inspiration and suggestions... Thanks. I seem to be moving away from the bivy, due to me user seeking the ability to accommodate two... and not only solo hikes. But maybe it can convert....two bivy bags become one small tent for a couple?

David Drake: Very valuable advice David, thank you. I do see that i am limited in the truly UL crowd and I feel that it is, as stated before, not beneficial to a mass product approach. I agree that this site is very good for me to use as a core resource, and I hope to being my own insights to the community as I gain them myself. In my budding career, i may turn attention to other aspects, but, as you well cautioned me on, I shall keep within my limits... I want to showcase my design skills and push them to improve them. Then get a real job! so Its less about how cool i can make UL, and more about how the UL ideal can inspire a less minimal approach. Your perspective and insight has been valuable.

Franco/Chad: great tips on the gear skin, something along these lines was in my head, but more modular and adaptive.

Ryan, Eugene, John Smith, Colin, Ken, Anna: Thank you as well, all good content.

Tim Zen: Good memory, a senior last year in my major did indeed to the QR code idea... though i distain connective technology in the wild, esp. smart phones. I don't have one, or want one. But call me old fashioned...


Over all: I want to focus as much as possible in immersing the hiker in nature and facilitate that experience and interaction. I want to keep some luxury items (in comparison to UL) available in terms of pack weight capability and shelter above the raw tarp. My final question is, is it so bad to have a 25lb pack over a 10-15 total? Many a fit person can handle such a load over more terrain the one has the time to cover in the busy schedules we have preoccupied our selves with. With respect to the purists (and one day i may join that camp) i feel a need to find a balance. maybe its a UL crossover training module??? ideas?

P.S. I have a simple survey asking your personal background/views just to get a feel for what people want in backpacking. I hope I am not overloading this forum, I just finally get to do a project i can be fully passionate about. Thanks and HAPPY TRAILS!

http://www.surveybuilder.com/s/LqbFcgZf4AA

Edited by apathlesswood on 04/10/2012 17:48:36 MDT.

I think designing a piece of gear that can serve a purpose for one person but when they add a friend with the same piece of gear it starts to become a much more sophisticated piece of gear to meet the needs of the group. I think an example would be a simple 5' x 8 or 9' tarp could serve as a simple one person shelter. When the first person brings a buddy that has the same tarp the two can be brought together and be reduced or restricted through design to create a tarp for 2 with the addition of an awning for gear storage. If you add a third person with the same tarp they can be combined to make a full 3 person tent with vestibules... I think the direction to go would be take all the major components of a backpacking kit and start looking at the simplest shapes and the basic purposes each piece has to serve and then look for similarities to combine multiple of the same for a group or multiple items within the kit for the individual

the main items as I see them are:

shelter

storage - both pack and stuff sacks to compartmentalize, a mid 20lb base weight will probable include 3 stuff sacks of various sizes

insulation - sleeping bag, extra mid or leg layers, hat, gloves...

Start looking at where there is overlap for the individual which I think will be harder, and where there is overlap for the group. Eliminating individual items to simplify and not necessarily reduce weight might be a good thing to look at as well.

My winter kit is down to between 18-22 lbs base weight depending on the technical agenda of the trip so my focus has shifted to eliminating items from the kit to simplify the winter process as a whole.

You could get some urethane and use an iron to attach about a 4" piece around the pad and then sew the rest of the tarp floor.

This could double as the back rest of the when converted and would be strong enough to keep the connections from weakening.

Edited by awsorensen on 04/18/2012 22:03:48 MDT.

"then look for similarities to combine multiple of the same for a group . . . . sleeping bag,"

So you'd have a zipper on each side and every arriving BPers just zips into a chain of such bags?

You go on more interesting backpacking trips than I have since college!